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dual boxes pve in C4
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TXG SYNC
Dad Jokes R Us
#21 - 2014-02-24 19:28:56 UTC
Ghenghis Kralj wrote:
armor mainly because the domi gets pretty sweet sentry bonuses and is relatively cheap. you can do a similar concept with something like rattlesnakes, gilas, or tengus, but your price tag shoots up.

meanwhile the domi set can cost you about 400-600 million depending on fit whereas the others are usually 1+ billion per set.


RR Tengus can do it for about the same price, and are an equally valid choice. They have the benefit of low mass when traversing wormholes, and reduced skill requirements. It's why they are so popular! The Domis seem to run the sites faster as a pair, though, due to typically better DPS application than Tengus. That said, a well-skilled Tengu will edge out a poorly-skilled Domi every time.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2014-02-24 20:23:49 UTC
TXG SYNC wrote:
Ghenghis Kralj wrote:
armor mainly because the domi gets pretty sweet sentry bonuses and is relatively cheap. you can do a similar concept with something like rattlesnakes, gilas, or tengus, but your price tag shoots up.

meanwhile the domi set can cost you about 400-600 million depending on fit whereas the others are usually 1+ billion per set.


RR Tengus can do it for about the same price, and are an equally valid choice. They have the benefit of low mass when traversing wormholes, and reduced skill requirements. It's why they are so popular! The Domis seem to run the sites faster as a pair, though, due to typically better DPS application than Tengus. That said, a well-skilled Tengu will edge out a poorly-skilled Domi every time.


Yea except Tengu's will lose SP when you get ganked and a similarily fit Tengu is going to put out maybe 60% of a domi's DPS.

That being you are much more likely to be able to GTFO in a pair of tengus than Domis.
Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's
#23 - 2014-02-24 21:26:55 UTC
and domi could have a micro jump drive. personally, i think tengus draw a LOT of attention.
Adoris Nolen
Sama Guild
#24 - 2014-02-25 08:08:22 UTC
Or since domis cost like 150 for the hull vs 500+ for a tengu, your not going to give a ****. Add drone assist, better dmg, range, Max RR that doesn't cost dps all while not needing 100m implants to make it work. Ofc, the domi is beast mode in c4 settings. Just make sure the numbers match the spreadsheet & ur good to go.
TXG SYNC
Dad Jokes R Us
#25 - 2014-02-25 16:35:10 UTC
Adoris Nolen wrote:
Or since domis cost like 150 for the hull vs 500+ for a tengu...


Quick sanity check here with Jita prices.
Current Tengu hull cost: 140-150M for the hull, 160-170M for the subsystems to run in a RR gang, total about 320M for the hull.
Current Domi hull cost: 183M for the hull.

Fitted cost for entry-level C4 RR gangs as of today's Jita prices (price varies by minute):
Tengu: 445M ISK
Dominix: 374M ISK

In practice, this is a cost difference roughly equivalent to ONE SITE in C4 space.

Don't let price determine which hull you're going to fly in a C4 RR gang. Let the other attributes decide depending on what your needs are:
* Armor tank for Domi, shield tank for Tengu.
* Drones for Domi, Heavy Missiles for Tengu.
* No skillpoint loss upon a gank for Domi, skillpoint loss for Tengu.
* Longer skill train for a fully-effective Domi, shorter skill train for a fully-effective Tengu.
* 200M+ kg mass cost for a round-trip through a wormhole for Domi, 17M+ kg mass cost for a round-trip through a wormhole for a Tengu. You need to evaluate your static connections to determine the mass costs with which you are comfortable.
* Dominix is very slow, Tengu is pretty quick.
* Dominix does around 50% better DPS than a Tengu, meaning faster site completion times.
* Range is about equal; both can project to around 100km.
* Domi can/should MJD to close range with Sleepers spawning at 100+km, Tengu slowboats.

There are more differences to be sure. I don't know that I'd say one is better than another; it depends on your home wormhole's static connection mass limits, your existing skillpoint allocation, the kinds of risk you're willing to tolerate, etc.
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#26 - 2014-02-26 01:20:05 UTC
TXG- Do you need t2 rigs for that RR Domi setup?

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .
TXG SYNC
Dad Jokes R Us
#27 - 2014-02-26 04:57:28 UTC
Deen Wispa wrote:
TXG- Do you need t2 rigs for that RR Domi setup?


Not really, you can tank it on buffer, but it reduces the likelihood of needing to warp out in a duo.

Check the second Domi fit I posted for the T1 rig version. Bigger buffer, a bit lower skills, well-tested, but it means you're tanking on buffer longer than the first fit. Still very do-able, 70,000EHP in armor means you can tank for a long time at a DPS deficit :)
Adoris Nolen
Sama Guild
#28 - 2014-02-26 05:16:13 UTC
Unless subsystems have crashed in prices, that 300m tengu is ghetto fit. Also, no ******* way that domi costs 374 to fit unless using faction.
TXG SYNC
Dad Jokes R Us
#29 - 2014-02-26 16:38:55 UTC  |  Edited by: TXG SYNC
Adoris Nolen wrote:
Unless subsystems have crashed in prices, that 300m tengu is ghetto fit. Also, no ******* way that domi costs 374 to fit unless using faction.


Yes, subsystems crashed in price months ago. Those of us in lower-class w-space have been reeling from the drop in nanoribbon prices since then quite a bit.

The only faction items on the domi are two IN EANM, as referenced earlier in the thread (fit is already shown; perhaps you missed it); the Domi tends to go into structure during a triple or quadruple Upholder battleship spawn without the faction EANM. Tengu shown for comparison that can run C4 in a pair is below; go look up the prices yourself. Full fit is right-now 438M current Jita sell order prices, including all subsystems & mods, and is proven in RR gangs up to C5/C6.

My point is, don't let price dictate which one you pick. Use skill requirements & your preferred playstyle decide.

[Tengu, C5/C6 Site Runner]

Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

10MN Afterburner II
Pithum C-Type Explosive Deflection Amplifier
Pithum C-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Caldari Navy Large Shield Extender

Large Remote Shield Booster II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's
#30 - 2014-02-26 20:43:01 UTC
TXG is right. That's a very workable fit and a good option for c3s. I think it comes down to personal preference and characters' skill set at the end of the day. The tengu risks ISK and SP. The domi only risk ISK. And from my experience, can do the sites quicker.
Adoris Nolen
Sama Guild
#31 - 2014-02-26 21:39:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Adoris Nolen
Sheild tank the domi, armor for pve is subpar.

Edit: I did see the fit & dismissed it right away as soon as I saw armor.
TXG SYNC
Dad Jokes R Us
#32 - 2014-02-26 23:12:33 UTC  |  Edited by: TXG SYNC
Adoris Nolen wrote:
Sheild tank the domi, armor for pve is subpar.


Have you flown either a shield or an armor domi in a C4 or C5 remote rep gang, either on Sisi or TQ? If you have, please provide the fit(s).

If you haven't, and cannot provide the fit, then I can make a few safe assumptions regarding the provenance of your opinion expressed above regarding the superiority of a RR shield Domi with 0 or perhaps 1 omnidirectional tracking link over a RR armor Domi with 3 or 4 omnis.

EDIT to say: in a local-rep situation, the "shield is always better than armor for PvE" argument holds some water. In a logi-supported environment -- including remote-rep gangs -- it's totally situational. And I've found the armor dominix dramatically more effective in time-per-site dual-boxing tests on Sisi than its shield-tanked, zero-tracking-link counterpart! But if a superior RR shield fit exists that overcomes the range limitation of non-tracking-linked Gardes, I'm all ears. The armor Domi gang drops the 1600 plate for an additional DDA for C3 work, but for C4 data/relic sites and C5, you really want the buffer. And to avoid the ganks and close on 100km-orbiting Sleeper battleships, you really want a MJD...
Adoris Nolen
Sama Guild
#33 - 2014-02-27 05:36:26 UTC
Yes on c4. C5 cata, I used a logi. I'm not going to provide fits. It runs everything but the safeguard spawns. Your insistence on "gardes for life" & armor tanking is plebeian.
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