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Mining can be very profitable.

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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#61 - 2014-02-21 20:05:47 UTC
Mining sucks if you are dumb enough to be sitting there staring at your ship shooting rocks for 5 hours a day. But if you have a miner running minimized while doing something fun on your main acct, then it's just a momentary pain every 5 to 20 minutes while you lock some new rocks or dump a load off.

Is it the best ISK/hr in the game? Not even close.

Does a single semi AFK miner cover my other 5 accts each month? Absolutely.

You only need enough ISKies to do what you need to do. If you can make them AFK, then who gives a **** how inefficient it is?

Mr Epeen Cool
Dave Stark
#62 - 2014-02-21 20:10:19 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
You only need enough ISKies to do what you need to do. If you can make them AFK, then who gives a **** how inefficient it is?


because high sec asteroids aren't particularly big, so you have to babysit your ship a lot so it's not that "afk" at all. to the point where if you actually calculated your time spent restarting lasers over the 65 hours quoted by the OP, you'd realise you've probably still spent more time at the keyboard earning your plex than an incursion runner did...

your statement applies well to PI and such, but not very well to mining.
ashley Eoner
#63 - 2014-02-21 22:52:21 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
You only need enough ISKies to do what you need to do. If you can make them AFK, then who gives a **** how inefficient it is?


because high sec asteroids aren't particularly big, so you have to babysit your ship a lot so it's not that "afk" at all. to the point where if you actually calculated your time spent restarting lasers over the 65 hours quoted by the OP, you'd realise you've probably still spent more time at the keyboard earning your plex than an incursion runner did...

your statement applies well to PI and such, but not very well to mining.
You can find some large asteroids in highsec. The downside is that the reason they are large is because of gankers being active in system lol...
Vageena Clatoris
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#64 - 2014-02-21 22:57:07 UTC
Hal Morsh wrote:
I haven't really seen any recent threads so I decided to point this out. I also needed to occupy myself while mining, and since I was going to do this anyways I figured the forums should know for anyone who hasn't thought about it.

Mining yield is pretty good if you think about it.

Just in my retriever with "some" skills I can get a little over 3k M3 in ore every 3 minutes, now while people can definately make over 500k isk per cycle I'm just going to use that as a base number here and do the math for you.

(My math is probably very inefficient but I know it's correct)

500,000 / 3 = 166,666 This is to bring the number down to per minute.
166,666 X 60 = 9,999,960 So I pretty much make 10 mill an hour without boosts or maxed skills.
10,000,000 X 24 = 240,000,000 A day if you mined the full 24 hours. I rounded to 10 mill.

What are plex's worth now, 650 mill? So that would be 65 hours total of mining To earn one plex. So around 2 and a half days lets say as I don't have max skills to compare to.

30 days in a month divided by 2.5 = 12 plex's in total per month. So how much are these people multiboxing and botting making? It's got to be huge, but who is ever on the full 24 hours. Let alone with down times. So lets say 10 plex's for the hell of it.

I saw a guy with 20 accounts. So that is 100 plexes or 65 billion a month with my skills if I had 20 exact clones of my account botting. Or 3.25 billion for one person Quite high indeed, and even in realistic amounts of time it's still easily achievable to plex the accounts and profit, in turn driving up the prices even more due to even higher demand. You are only limited by the amount of ores available really. Of course this wouldn't be an issue if it weren't for bots. Although the only one true bot I met in game has been robbed of his ore many times and had a few ships destroyed, so there is a way of course to combat them and profit meanwhile..


I know that people do use mining as a semi afk activity like I do, to do other things while still earning some isk in game for when they can actually pay attention. It also helps the corp in my case.


How much time is wasted emptying and unloading to then go back and mine again ?

I suppose you need two accounts, one mining and one with an orca ?
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#65 - 2014-02-21 23:56:11 UTC
MicDeath Titan wrote:
Jill Chastot wrote:
You can make at best... 10m p/h that is literally best case scenario.

I can do that in 5m, doing various other activities none of which have a particualrly high skill requirement. and all are more engaging and entertaining. (except station trading, i wouldn't say it is much more entertaining.)

Mining if you enjoy it is perfectly fine. But it is literally the paper run of the eve universe.


So... not really profitable...

Funny... I make on average ~40-50mill an hour across 10 characters with time included in setting up (logging in, fleeting, setting up warp points, assigning drones, setting up follow's, etc. since I do this all by hand) If I were to use only one miner I could easily make 82mill/h for 8 hours straight. Before talking crap about miners, first look at the date of your information on your googling...


You literally proved me right about what I said. 82m over 8 hours is 10m an hour aprox.


... Good argument son

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
Pontianak Sythaeryn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2014-02-22 01:00:51 UTC
Hal Morsh wrote:
Buncha wanabe Scientologists.


I don't know whose foot it's going to be... but your asking for it.
MicDeath Titan
No Mans Corp
#67 - 2014-02-22 03:10:59 UTC
Jill Chastot wrote:
MicDeath Titan wrote:
Jill Chastot wrote:
You can make at best... 10m p/h that is literally best case scenario.

I can do that in 5m, doing various other activities none of which have a particualrly high skill requirement. and all are more engaging and entertaining. (except station trading, i wouldn't say it is much more entertaining.)

Mining if you enjoy it is perfectly fine. But it is literally the paper run of the eve universe.


So... not really profitable...

Funny... I make on average ~40-50mill an hour across 10 characters with time included in setting up (logging in, fleeting, setting up warp points, assigning drones, setting up follow's, etc. since I do this all by hand) If I were to use only one miner I could easily make 82mill/h for 8 hours straight. Before talking crap about miners, first look at the date of your information on your googling...


You literally proved me right about what I said. 82m over 8 hours is 10m an hour aprox.


... Good argument son

The following shorthand "/h" stands for "per hour".
In 8 hours that single miner would make approx. 656 million isk.

Perhaps you need more math to be corrected.
In this hypothetical ice field, there spawns 1,000 units of something called dark glitter, an ice worth in the range of around 600k-700k depending on the market, but in general stays near 660k often.
Using my ultra slow procurer, with a DCU and Ice harvester rig+implant(1003)+low and maxed out Rorqual booster, I get a cycle time of 28.07 seconds. There is 3,600 seconds in an hour, so for simplicity sake, lets just do 3,600 divided by 28.07, gives us 128 cycles. In that hour we mined 128 blocks of this dark glitter, so lets plug that in, 128 times 660,000 equals 84,480,000 isk. per. hour.
We have 1,000 units to mine, and at a rate of 128 blocks per hour, it would take us 7.8 hours to mine it all, or 8 hours if accounting for all the travel time and such, just to make it an even 8 hours. Note, if I had used a hulk I could easily get ~110 million per hour.

Of course this is for the most valuable stuff, and a fleet goes through that 1,000 units so fast it becomes an afterthought.
The normal range for mining is this:
-=High sec ORE=-
•400k/h to 24mill/h for the low end (venture zero skills to hulk max skills)
•1mill/h to 33mill/h for the high end (venture zero skills to hulk max skills)
-=Low sec ORE=-
•900k/h to 27mill/h for the low end (venture zero skills to hulk max skills)
•4mill/h to 49mill/h for the high end (venture zero skills to hulk max skills)
-=Null sec ORE=-
•400k/h to 41mill/h for the low end (venture zero skills to hulk max skills)
•4mill/h to 50mill/h for the high end (venture zero skills to hulk max skills)
ICE
-=High Sec=-
~32mill/h
-=Low Sec=-
~40m/h
-=Null=-
~50m/h

Peace!
*Miners gangster sign waved*
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#68 - 2014-02-22 03:20:06 UTC
So rorqual boosted dark glitter fleets are the norm?

I mean I can pull some hypothetical formula out my ass from smart bombing Titans and dual deadspace tengus farming the maze with perfect drops.

But I'm not, because taking outlier situations like that is pointless and proves nothing other than the hard cap on your income,

But do go on about your fields of dark glitter as we converse over your average game play.

I look forward to more absurdly unfeasible situations.

Not to mention the fact I don't even know why you splerged over my comments when I was simply replying to OP that even if profitable for him it is not even close to optimal.


Continue with your poor miner sob story

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
MicDeath Titan
No Mans Corp
#69 - 2014-02-22 03:57:54 UTC
Jill Chastot wrote:
So rorqual boosted dark glitter fleets are the norm?

I mean I can pull some hypothetical formula out my ass from smart bombing Titans and dual deadspace tengus farming the maze with perfect drops.

But I'm not, because taking outlier situations like that is pointless and proves nothing other than the hard cap on your income,

But do go on about your fields of dark glitter as we converse over your average game play.

I look forward to more absurdly unfeasible situations.

Not to mention the fact I don't even know why you splerged over my comments when I was simply replying to OP that even if profitable for him it is not even close to optimal.


Continue with your poor miner sob story

For me, and really any null sec/low sec corp that has a dedicated mining division WILL have a Rorqual, and more often than not these Rorquals are pretty much running almost nonstop with open fleets to corp/alliance. So yes, the norm.
Perhaps you should read it a bit more slowly to see that I did include the expected values an average miner makes and extra information you seem to keep on missing.

As to why I made a comment on your comment to the OP? Because for the very reason you displaying to me. You seemingly don't know jack diddly about mining except it is a ship that pews rocks and people gank these ships, and you are trying to tell somebody false information about mining.
Glockshna Quant
Versatility Production Corporation' LLC
#70 - 2014-02-22 04:03:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Glockshna Quant
Points you missed:

Price fluctuation
Initial investment (which is small I'll grant you)
Risk cost (getting suicide ganked)
Transport fees (If you use a pusher, or transport time if you do it yourself)
Mining for more than 5 or 6 hours every day is pretty difficult for the average attention span much less 10 or more. Not even gonna comment on the 24 hour number you put out there.
Even 10 plex a month per character would still be 21.6 hours a day and your isk/h projection. Completely unrealistic unless you are a bot.
Asteroid belts can be depleted which adds more travel time and even the need to switch systems if you have enough characters.


However, all of that said, with a good setup and enough characters you can make decent isk mining. Just not as much as you could doing other things with less characters and less time investment. You have to WANT to mine to make a good amount of isk doing it.
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#71 - 2014-02-22 04:31:51 UTC
Is op in null?

Well I guess you should stop derailing our conversation.

Not to mention your example involves ice which op isn't mining.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#72 - 2014-02-22 04:43:43 UTC
I like mining, myself.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Desimus Maximus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#73 - 2014-02-22 05:34:55 UTC
Mining is only meant to be a fleet based operation. If you are solo mining, especially with no boosts, simply adding alts only means you have to mine for that many PLEXes. You are only multiplying and complicating your workload while in the end you have a net result of 0.

BTW, if you have 20 accounts earning your estimated 10 PLEXes, that's 200, not 100.
Dave Stark
#74 - 2014-02-22 07:18:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Alavaria Fera wrote:
I like mining, myself.


I do too, but because of the isk/hour and being an activity that encourages being antisocial, I'd rather bore myself in incursions.
Major 'Revolver' Ocelot
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#75 - 2014-02-22 08:11:46 UTC
Peasants.
Daimon Kaiera
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#76 - 2014-02-22 10:30:13 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
2 1/2 days for a PLEX (not including the time to haul the minerals back to station, etc. - that's just sitting at the rocks). That's a pretty low income rate.


My not mining rate is, on average,

17,000,000 ISK
+ 3400 LP
+ 5,312,500 extra possible ISK from the ESS.

per 20 minutes. Just for the isk, that's about 66.9M minus taxes per hour. So, you know, just a few more than 10 hours of ratting per month per plex.

.... . .-.. .--. / .. / .... .- ...- . / ..-. .- .-.. .-.. . -. / .- -. -.. / .. / -.-. .- -. -. --- - / --. . - / ..- .--. / ... - --- .--. - .... .. ... / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. . / .. -.. . .- / .. ... / -. --- - / ... - --- .-.. . -. / ... - --- .--.