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Fittable freighters possible?

Author
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#41 - 2014-02-18 22:37:02 UTC
donmess wime wrote:
And a freighter fitted for tank would be hilarious. Them failed ganks.



I think you underestimate the costs of Catalysts and how little training time they really require....

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Batelle
Filthy Peasants
#42 - 2014-02-18 22:46:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
Tippia wrote:
Batelle wrote:
"Pointless obfuscation" is a perfect descriptor for this side issue of packaged capitals.
…aside from being the exact reason why they can't just be given rig- and lowslots. So it's not so much a pointless obfuscation as it is a pretty salient and glaring obstacle.


A fig leaf maybe. Even erotica had a suitable workaround (ok maybe you have to change a number on SMAs, big damn deal). Freighters not being fitable is more of a glaring anomaly than anything else. The point being, its an entirely solvable issue. On the other hand, if you don't think freighters need the buff, that's a perfectly valid reason to oppose this change, and completely independent of how solvable you judge the issue to be. So, since I'm already being presumptive, I think you're making mountains out of molehills in order to say something can't be done, when in actuality you merely think it shouldn't be done.

Loraine Gess wrote:
Does anyone see the problem with this line of thinking?

that's a pretty damn lazy line of reasoning for you to take. I can oppose any proposition or balance change through increasing comparisons to the absurd, but I don't, because its stupid and unconvincing.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#43 - 2014-02-18 22:50:06 UTC
Batelle wrote:
So, since I'm already being presumptive, I think you're making mountains out of molehills in order to say something can't be done, when in actuality you merely think it shouldn't be done.

…and I think you should stop presuming things and instead just read what's actually being said.
Batelle
Filthy Peasants
#44 - 2014-02-18 22:52:46 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Batelle wrote:
So, since I'm already being presumptive, I think you're making mountains out of molehills in order to say something can't be done, when in actuality you merely think it shouldn't be done.

…and I think you should stop presuming things and instead just read what's actually being said.


Well, I saw the OP specifically ask if it would make them overpowered, and I saw you throw the OMG CAPS argument at him instead of simply saying "yes."

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#45 - 2014-02-18 22:55:11 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Well, I saw the OP specifically ask if it would make them overpowered, and I saw you throw the OMG CAPS argument at him instead of simply saying "yes."

So, like I said, I think you should stop presuming things and instead just read what's actually being said.
If you did, you'd notice that I said that it would make them underpowered. Fancy that. Lol

That's why presumptions are bad for you.
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#46 - 2014-02-18 22:55:18 UTC
We could make a super freighter with 10 billion cubic meter capacity and 1,000 EHP and highsec pilots would line up to fly them.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#47 - 2014-02-18 23:01:24 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:
We could make a super freighter with 10 billion cubic meter capacity and 1,000 EHP and highsec pilots would line up to fly them.



Im feeling faint.... so much blood movement..... must....

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Carmen Electra
Dread Knights Holding
Dread Knights
#48 - 2014-02-18 23:10:36 UTC
Is allowing capitals in hi-sec REALLY that big of a deal? I say we try it Cool
Batelle
Filthy Peasants
#49 - 2014-02-18 23:42:16 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Well, I saw the OP specifically ask if it would make them overpowered, and I saw you throw the OMG CAPS argument at him instead of simply saying "yes."

So, like I said, I think you should stop presuming things and instead just read what's actually being said.
If you did, you'd notice that I said that it would make them underpowered. Fancy that. Lol

That's why presumptions are bad for you.


"Would giving freighters X make them OP"
"No, it would be a nerf"
"Wait... what?"
"Because giving them X would require nerfing them. Otherwise they'd break the game because capitals"
"Not really because...blah blah blah"
"Well even then, freighters are fine"
"Why didn't you say that in the first place?"
"You're being presumptuous."

In your first response, you only said it would make them underpowered because of your implicit assumption of an accompanying nerf. So to reference that now doesn't even make sense.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Victor Andall
#50 - 2014-02-18 23:53:37 UTC
Why yes, someone HAS done the math.

They're called CCP. They do a lot of math for this game.

I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?

19.08.2014 - Dinsdale gets slammed by CCP Falcon. Never forget.

PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#51 - 2014-02-18 23:57:01 UTC
You want to know the reason freighters won't get fittings? Ok, here it is:

Think about the reason you made this thread, the train of thought that went: "oh boy! wouldn't it be cool if my freighter could do XYZ!?"

Got it? Good.

Congratulations! That's the exact reason why it'll never happen. Why? Because freighters freight. They don't tank amazingly well. They don't align quickly. They don't fit stabs. They freight. That is what they do, and that is all they will ever do, because that is their role, and that is all they need to do.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#52 - 2014-02-19 00:56:42 UTC
I never understood why Freighter and Jump Freighter ships don't have module and rig slots like all hull types do. The one size fits all mentality is a priori inconsistent with the fitting design the game has for spaceship hulls, and it removes complexity, customization, variety and versatility for the hull type without bringing into the table anything (ease of use is not an issue, we are playing EvE online dammit!).

Balance is not an issue either, you just have to take into account what your "end product" will be in regards to EHP, agility, cargo etc when balancing the ship. I am willing to bet that bringing in module slots and rigs into the equation, together with hull balancing and bonuses would result in a better experience for everyone (freighter pilots, industrialists, gankers, logistic managers etc etc).
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2014-02-19 01:10:01 UTC
Bertrand Butler wrote:
I never understood why Freighter and Jump Freighter ships don't have module and rig slots like all hull types do. The one size fits all mentality is a priori inconsistent with the fitting design the game has for spaceship hulls, and it removes complexity, customization, variety and versatility for the hull type without bringing into the table anything (ease of use is not an issue, we are playing EvE online dammit!).

Balance is not an issue either, you just have to take into account what your "end product" will be in regards to EHP, agility, cargo etc when balancing the ship. I am willing to bet that bringing in module slots and rigs into the equation, together with hull balancing and bonuses would result in a better experience for everyone (freighter pilots, industrialists, gankers, logistic managers etc etc).


Any way you modify them currently ends up being a nerf one way or another because you would have to fit the damn things with module and rigs just to get exactly what you have now.
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#54 - 2014-02-19 01:10:48 UTC
Loraine Gess wrote:


Does anyone see the problem with this line of thinking?


No, because choice!
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#55 - 2014-02-19 01:16:13 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Any way you modify them currently ends up being a nerf one way or another because you would have to fit the damn things with module and rigs just to get exactly what you have now.


Then fit the damn things...like you do with every other ship in the game except shuttles.
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#56 - 2014-02-19 01:27:31 UTC
Bertrand Butler wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Any way you modify them currently ends up being a nerf one way or another because you would have to fit the damn things with module and rigs just to get exactly what you have now.


Then fit the damn things...like you do with every other ship in the game except shuttles.


All the ships you fit were completely designed around having to be fit. The freighter were not and that's why they do not have fitting options.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#57 - 2014-02-19 02:59:21 UTC
What the f...this is still a thing? Good Lord, just make it stop! I have seen no one come up with a better reason for slots/rigs on a freighter other than the "well, every other ship can" excuse. Several reasons not to, on the other hand, have...repeatedly.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#58 - 2014-02-19 03:26:46 UTC
If you're going to do this, you do it T3 style (ish)

A number of subsystem slots, which don't give you highs mids and lows.

So you might give it all cargo modules to mirror the current freighter (probably less ehp)

Or fewer cargo modules, with some defence modules (resists, ehp) , or warp speed modules. or agility modules. Or so on.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Muestereate
Minions LLC
#59 - 2014-02-19 04:24:35 UTC
Wouldn't this make Freighters harder to gank? Who could want that?
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
#60 - 2014-02-19 05:00:23 UTC
I like the idea of rig slots to increase warp speed. I like low slots to improve speed and align time. I am not remotely interested in increasing cargo space. That said, if others are interested in increased cargo space they potentially run a greater risk of gankage; risk/reward and all that.

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