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Fittable freighters possible?

Author
donmess wime
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-02-18 20:21:55 UTC
Hello

Are fittable freighters possible without being too overpowered? Has anyone done the math?
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#2 - 2014-02-18 20:23:04 UTC
Please see about 1400 threads in F&I.


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Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Batelle
Filthy Peasants
#3 - 2014-02-18 20:23:10 UTC
lets just say it wouldn't be rocket science.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#4 - 2014-02-18 20:25:14 UTC
donmess wime wrote:
Hello

Are fittable freighters possible without being too overpowered? Has anyone done the math?

Depends what you want to fit them with.

If you want to give them rigs or lowslots, they're going to be a whole lot worse than they are now…
donmess wime
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2014-02-18 20:32:40 UTC
Why would a freighter be worse off with lo and rig slots?
donmess wime
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-02-18 20:33:27 UTC
Why would freighters be worse of with rig and low slots?
unidenify
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2014-02-18 20:39:48 UTC  |  Edited by: unidenify
donmess wime wrote:
Why would freighters be worse of with rig and low slots?


rigs and low slot mean they can expand their cargo further

1 low slot with 3 rigs slot would allow Charon to move 2 million M3 volume (just one mod would push it over 1 million)
it mean it can move 2 of carrier/dreadnought in package. so in theory, nothing stop it from move carrier/dreadnought into high sec.

(reason capital ships can't enter high sec was due to no cyno field allowed in high sec so capital ship can't jump into high sec)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#8 - 2014-02-18 20:42:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
donmess wime wrote:
Why would a freighter be worse off with lo and rig slots?

Because for every low slot you give them, you have to reduce their cargo space by 22% to ensure that they can't reach 1M m³.
To get back to their current carrying capacity you'll have to fill them with cargo expanders, each of which reduces their hull HP (i.e. where they have the brunt of their hitpoints) by 20%.

So what you end up with is a ship that carries less and/or dies faster.

I'd prefer my freighter to have lots of cargo space and lots of HP, not one or the other (or neither). If you want to carry less and have more EHP, just use a JF or an Orca.
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#9 - 2014-02-18 20:48:20 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Because for every low slot you give them, you have to reduce their cargo space by 22% to ensure that they can't reach 1M m³.


Other than the ban on caps in highsec, why is this important?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#10 - 2014-02-18 21:12:43 UTC
Shizuken wrote:
Tippia wrote:

Because for every low slot you give them, you have to reduce their cargo space by 22% to ensure that they can't reach 1M m³.

Other than the ban on caps in highsec, why is this important?

The other reason, to pre-empt the obvious counter, is that special rules and exceptions for what can fit into (or onto) what are bad.
donmess wime
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2014-02-18 21:16:42 UTC  |  Edited by: donmess wime
I agree, i think the Ore Holds are a strange concept, but where do you draw the line? If you make a rule that capital ships cannot fit into a freighter so that freighters can finally be customizable that would not be bad
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#12 - 2014-02-18 21:21:57 UTC
fully customizable freighter!!!


[CHARON V2, custom personal super fit]
expanded cargohold II
expanded cargohold II
expanded cargohold II
expanded cargohold II
expanded cargohold II



carries: Exactly what it used to carry!


Dies: Exactly how it used to die!

eyeroll
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#13 - 2014-02-18 21:23:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
donmess wime wrote:
I agree, i think the Ore Holds are a strange concept, but where do you draw the line? If you make a rule that capital ships cannot fit into a freighter so that freighters can finally be customizable that would not actually be bad

It would be ugly as hell, and there's pretty much zero need to customise freighters anyway since they're already fully optimised for what they're supposed to do.

Introducing a fugly rule to solve a non-problem is actually pretty bad.

Loraine Gess wrote:
carries: Exactly what it used to carry!

Dies: Exactly how it used to die!

Not entirely true. It actually dies about 3× as quickly or to ⅓ the attacking force. Blink
donmess wime
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2014-02-18 21:29:39 UTC  |  Edited by: donmess wime
I respect the devs for making ships with intended roles, but emergent gameplay is important and EVE is considered a sandbox. Along this line it is bad having a ship with no customization, but because it has no customization it is never optimized. There could be cases where pilots only need to move 380k m3, and would prefer speed or tank instead of additional cargospace for example.
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#15 - 2014-02-18 21:30:12 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Not entirely true. It actually dies about 3× as quickly or to ⅓ the attacking force. Blink




I'm assuming CCP modifies the hull HP upwards (or not because that could be ********) to compensate for the new need for expanders





These threads should really be renamed "Wow I want to carry even more **** in my freighter!!!"
unidenify
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#16 - 2014-02-18 21:30:20 UTC  |  Edited by: unidenify
Shizuken wrote:
Tippia wrote:

Because for every low slot you give them, you have to reduce their cargo space by 22% to ensure that they can't reach 1M m³.


Other than the ban on caps in highsec, why is this important?


I mention in my post but I will do it again

CPP make few claims why Capital Ship can't enter
first was that they can't fit through star gate, so they need to use their own jump devices.
However, in high sec systems, there are several powerful cyno jammers that prevent players to make cyno field which is needed for capital ship to lock and jump.

So, Capital ship have no mean to enter high sec. And, any capital ship that happen to be high sec due to brief period where players can make capital ship in high sec, it can stay there or leave system.

Freighter that can carry capital ships would mean CPP need to find other way to block capital ships from enter high sec and don't affect existing capital ship in high sec.

it is simple to make sure that freighter never have more than 999,999 M3 because Dreadnought and carrier have volume of 1 million when in package.
Jill Chastot
Black Water Oasis
#17 - 2014-02-18 21:33:48 UTC
DCII too stronk

60% resists

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#18 - 2014-02-18 21:35:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
donmess wime wrote:
Along this line it is bad having a ship with no customization, but because it has no customization it is never optimized.
Quite the opposite. That's the whole point: the current freighters are even more optimised for their task than they could be if they were given slots.

Quote:
There could be cases where pilots only need to move 300k m3, and would prefer speed or tank instead of cargospace. There could also be cases where pilots need to move more than 900m3 where tank and to some degree speed is irrelevant.
…and the game already has options that cover those eventualities.

Loraine Gess wrote:
I'm assuming CCP modifies the hull HP upwards (or not because that could be ********) to compensate for the new need for expanders
Why? The request was that the freighters are given customisation abilities, not that they're given a blanket buff. If people wanted a blanket buff, they could just ask for one and not muck around with all this obfuscation.

In fact, if anything, they would probably have to modify the bas HP downwards to compensate for the ability to fit a suitcase.
Carmen Electra
Row Row Fight the Power
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#19 - 2014-02-18 21:35:46 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Because for every low slot you give them, you have to reduce their cargo space by 22% to ensure that they can't reach 1M m³.


You do? Pretty sure OP just wants to be able to buff his existing freighter with mods. What terrible thing happens when you can haul >1M m³?
donmess wime
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2014-02-18 21:37:20 UTC
EVE HQ Allows for custom ships. I made a Fenrir with 2 low slots and 3 rig slots. I added Reinforced Bulkheads II, DCU II, and 3 Capital cargohold optimisation rigs. Then i nerfed the stock attributes until the build would be excactly like the current one, cargo wise, EHP and speed wise.
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