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What would you do if you had 100 billion ISK? First post
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Confederation of DuckTape Lovers 61
Mr LaboratoryRat Confederation of DuckTape Lovers Likes received: 61	#61 - 2014-03-10 00:17:35 UTC Zahara Cody wrote: Mr LaboratoryRat wrote: Novien Aurella wrote: , are there any trillionairs on eve? Yes, the highest i have spotted was 76 tril Your alt? http://imgur.com/vQehAX2 Different persons collection... http://imgur.com/bBFBtKK I have spotted that screeny too, i wish that was me.

Tannhauser C-Beam 209
Vartan Sarkisian Tannhauser C-Beam Likes received: 209	#62 - 2014-03-12 14:37:04 UTC 100b isk would be a nice to have for me... If I had it.... hmm I would never have to mission or do PI or make **** ever again and could just pee vee pee (trying not to die horribly in the process). How do people actually get to 100b anyway using only in game means, I aint even close to that.

Vartan Sarkisian

Tannhauser C-Beam

Likes received: 209

#63 - 2014-03-12 14:54:31 UTC

mynnna wrote:

Novien Aurella wrote:

But seriously, cheers on having that much. How did you do it?

I'm a market trader. These days I do what Darkstar01 said in his second point, though a) I'm an engineer, not a programmer and b) being either isn't necessary. Success in that kind of investment comes from making educated guesses as soon as possible (so, watching chaos, watching any dev appearance anywhere lest they leak something, watching the test server, etc) and being right. Knowing how systems in the game tie together is helpful as it uncovers things that are less obvious, including secondary and tertiary effects, but it's not required.......

Wow, that is pretty in-depth. I guess it is all able understanding how markets work and also game mechanics, then whilst not gravy you make big chunks of isk with the speculation (I assume there are loses along the way too though). Making items (modules, T2 frigs etc) does increase the isk wallet but at a much slower rate.

Vaerah Vahrokha

Vahrokh Consulting

Likes received: 5,809

#64 - 2014-03-12 16:22:05 UTC

Vartan Sarkisian wrote:

100b isk would be a nice to have for me... If I had it.... hmm I would never have to mission or do PI or make **** ever again and could just pee vee pee (trying not to die horribly in the process).

How do people actually get to 100b anyway using only in game means, I aint even close to that.

Vartan Sarkisian wrote:

Let's see if I'll get some likes by telling how to become space rich (and not just that!).

When they say EvE is Real! they are not joking.

EvE is not realistic per se but accepts realistic inputs and produces realistic outputs.

Therefore, like in RL, solo, hard labor is not prized nor rewarded. This is a very common pitfall many get trapped in.

This is why the missioneer is going to make 3B a month by playing an average number of HOURS a day.
This is why miners took ages and still made 10M per hour.
This is why PI is such a sorry low income. Solo, painful and not really scalable.
This why solo PvP is challenging to say the least.
TIME is the most precious commodity.
Money is very very important as well.

Those who engage brains aready jump up by a level: the missioneer suddenly discovers he could make 5B by playing less and studying LP better. The miner discovers he could do 1B a month (I am describing people playing 2-4 hours a day not 18).
The manufacturer who picks good items starts earning. Notice all what I say about EvE may be translated into a RL "gradual path to success" as well. The guy who figures out he could arbitrage or station trade gets fairly rich in a reasonable amount of time.

Those who "go social" and join organizations or just join groupings of some sort do well better.
PvPers win much more, PvEers can do WHs with big profits or incursions.

Those who "go meta" and become known create their own brand and people actually sponsor them. Or prioritize them. Their visibility attracts increasingly larger schemes (including a la Bad Bobby way! Twisted

).
Others become 3rd parties.
Others become market makers or swing traders.
Others compound various activities creating an "hard base" consisting on small and medium automatable ISK income processes that at the end of the month form a nice passive income.
TIME is still an utmost important commodity but now you can "trade" others, including fame and power.
Money is now coming in mass but it's not an objective any more. It's just a mean to the higher end(s) and it comes copious by itself.

Starting from meta you also begin getting "relevant" and acquire a bit of power.

Past (and along with) meta there's politics.
Power becomes a more important currency and is relentlessy sought after.
You have now entire "farms" of people working for you, you have to administer success and supporters. You have to propose your ideas and make them win.
You can hope to take a CSM seat and at the apex of success, even go beyond.

So here you see a very simplified EvE (and in some ways, RL) path to success in a nutshell.

Where do you want to stop?

Yes, you.

Because you are your glass ceiling. Only you may say "stop".

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials

mynnna

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 3,900

#65 - 2014-03-13 02:19:38 UTC

Vartan Sarkisian wrote:

mynnna wrote:

Novien Aurella wrote:

But seriously, cheers on having that much. How did you do it?

I don't think I've ever lost money on a speculative investment, actually. Contrary to the beliefs I've seen some people in the community state, good speculation isn't just blindly throwing money at something. It involves research and (despite phrases like "went all in" from before) careful assessment of risk.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Vartan Sarkisian

Tannhauser C-Beam

Likes received: 209

#66 - 2014-03-13 08:46:10 UTC | Edited by: Vartan Sarkisian

mynnna wrote:

That's pretty good going then, I guess it is knowing what kind of research to do in the first place, (although there are differences (i guess) between eve and real life) that if it is something you do in real life and you do then it is easier to bring that to the game.

Samroski

Middle-Earth

Likes received: 463

#67 - 2014-03-13 11:51:06 UTC

Players like mynna and VV have more insight than the average capsuleer, and thus they are far more likely to do better at speculation than mere mortals. Along with research, an in-depth understanding of the Eve market is necessary. Unfortunately events/decisions outside of the game also majorly effect the Eve economy, and thus Eve is different from RL in this context.

Having said all that, trade is by far the best method to make money in the game. There are relatively risk free trading methods than can earn you billions, and you can have scores of miners, mission runners and industrialists working for you 24/7, as pointed out by VV. Trade rules.

Any colour you like.

flakeys

Doomheim

Likes received: 3,311

#68 - 2014-03-13 13:11:20 UTC | Edited by: flakeys

Samroski wrote:

The biggest advantage of trade is once you know the basics and have aquired some 'wealth' it only takes a small amount of your time on a weekly/monthly base to keep that isk growing.It's been a long while since i did trading with a bigger amount then 25B as i can't be arsed to do so any more yet the profits is more then enough to fund plex and pvp for the biggest amount of players .All it takes to live a carefree pvp life is 25 B and some basic marketknowledge.That is asuming your not loosing faction fit tengu's on a daily base Blink

.

That is offcourse not counting the isk i make from investments/bpo's and other stuff that allmost takes no time but purely station trading with a 20 to 25 B.This is something people with any other eve profession don't have as they will need to invest allmost the same time each time they want to fatten their wallet .

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

Vartan Sarkisian

Tannhauser C-Beam

Likes received: 209

#69 - 2014-03-13 13:45:07 UTC | Edited by: Vartan Sarkisian

The trade that you mention though, is that station trading? If so I did try that, although I have no real world knowledge of trading I know the buy low sell high line and I found it incredibly boring… now I appreciate that I have a lack of knowledge here (on trading in general) but sitting in a station doing that all the time is something I guess you have alts for, one alt to do that then another account to actually do something in game. And obviously Jita is the most liquid market so you generally end up having to update orders very often.

My isk is going up, but in much smaller increments although for inputting (possibly) a lot more time ingame, and lets face ityou need to make the isk in order to do the stuff that you enjoy ingame.

I generally make T2 stuff, I look for miners to buy ore from etc so am utilising other players playstyles to find mine and, I do a bit of PI in corp which brings in some isk too, but at a guess I would say maybe 500m profit per month, which is nice (although probably a drop in the ocean to a good few of the people that have posted here), as you say it wouldn’t keep me in faction fit tengu’s but it is ok. perhaps I need to take more risk.

To get into the billions per week, wow, I couldn’t even fathom that, even if I created another account (I only use the 3 toons on one account) in order to train one for station trading, it is the indepth knowledge of eve markets that I don’t have, I don’t even know what that entails on an indepth basis, I get supply and demand, but if I trawled through the market screen I think id still be hard pushed to find something in there that would generate billion+ a week, or even a month.

To get to a stage where I could earn that kind of isk to do pvp, and plex and be free of doing those grinds that are missions etc is but a dream. Congrats to the people that can though Myanna has said that they are in trading in real life, that knowledge absolutely must help in what to look for here in eve.

Celestial Tomb 7
Minarete Celestial Tomb Likes received: 7	#70 - 2014-03-13 17:54:47 UTC . Easy of course, I would head to Jita, and have someone double it for me... .

Deadspace Knights 516
Noxisia Arkana Deadspace Knights Likes received: 516	#71 - 2014-03-13 18:40:57 UTC 1 Hobo fight club.

Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1
Novien Aurella Caldari Provisions Caldari State Likes received: 1	#72 - 2014-03-13 19:01:30 UTC I feel out of place here, given my current wallet size. http://gyazo.com/a54d76e9ab4603cb2d90ea59b4dbddcb

mynnna

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 3,900

#73 - 2014-03-13 19:32:07 UTC | Edited by: mynnna

Vartan Sarkisian wrote:

There are all manner of methods to trade that require more or less actual knowledge about the market. Straight margin trading, just taking profit on the spread between buys and sells (and any variations thereof such as doing the same between hubs) don't really require knowing much more than what's available on the market: the spread, and the volume. It's just as adjustable for how much you play - in my early career when that's all I did, I stuck to high volume fast moving markets and took advantage of margin trading (the skill) to make money even though I only updated orders 2-3 times a day rather than sitting and .01ing for hours. More insight into mechanics opens up more 'advanced' variations of the same (for example, seeing that many resources go through price cycles and knowing why that is enables you to safely predict and trade on those cycles) or lets you get into manipulation or speculation. Neither I nor anyone else who does the more advanced stuff started that way.

Also I'm not a trader at all in real life - I'm actually a mechanical engineer. If that confers any sort of advantage to what I do it'd be that number crunching and looking at systems and dissecting them comes easy to me...which isn't necessarily something that comes to you just by profession anyway Blink

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Sabriz Adoudel

Move along there is nothing here

Likes received: 6,056

#74 - 2014-03-13 22:17:51 UTC

mynnna wrote:

As a profitable poker player IRL (not a 'pro' but good enough that I could make a basic living from it, around minimum wage or a little more), the term 'all in' is perfectly suitable here.

Before any decision to go all in in poker, a good player 'researches' the situation, tries to get a very, very solid sense of what the opponent's hand contains, carefully assesses the risk and potential payouts, and decides based on that.

You want to win 90% of the times you call someone else's all-in, 45% or more (ideally a lot more) of the times you go all in and see a showdown and you want to win on the spot frequently when you do go all in.

Against players that know the basics of the game but not deep strategy, I can keep those numbers. Against other good players - well, I try to avoid playing them because even if you are slightly better than them, your EV is less than the rake.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Sabriz Adoudel

Move along there is nothing here

Likes received: 6,056

#75 - 2014-03-13 22:30:39 UTC

As for trading advice, I always tell people to become an expert at one area of the game first. For argument's sake let's say you start in mining or miner ganking.

Then, assess where goods related to mining are produced and consumed, and look for arbitrage opportunities.

What does the profession consume and where? Exhumer hulls, barge hulls, tech 2 mining modules and the like, mostly in 0.5 to 0.7 systems in empire close to trade hubs.

Who has an excess of these modules, and where? There's gankers (mostly in 0.5-0.7 systems close to hubs), and tech 2 producers (mostly in trade hubs; even though they produce elsewhere they will almost always move their goods in bulk).

Who has a shortage of these modules, and where? Recently ganked miners, and miners that are up-shipping (i.e. someone that has just skilled into the Mackinaw having previously flown a retriever) mostly. There's more gankees than up-shippers, so you want to cater to them.

How do you use this information? Well, firstly recognise that gankers tend to be unconcerned with extracting maximum value from their loot, and so will sell confiscated modules to a regionwide buy order that's well below hub price. But these modules will be located in a place where they are actually wanted. So set up a regionwide buy order, and flip these modules where they are located.

Next, look to profit from the up-shippers, by buying their old hulls (which will mostly be located in mining systems) and flipping them. Regionwide buy orders on Covetors, Retrievers and Procurers and sell them where they land. You'll get some in really undesirable locations - just wait until you are 0.01 ISKed on the buy order, and sell your undesirable stock (such as a Procurer in Rancer) to the person that 0.01 ISKed you.

There are more profitable markets than mining contraband, but this should give you some ideas.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Warcrows THE OLD SCHOOL 232
El Geo Warcrows THE OLD SCHOOL Likes received: 232	#76 - 2014-03-17 17:06:11 UTC If i had 100 billion isk i would make a Solo, shiny ship PvP video with about 50b of it, the rest i'd invest in the market so that i could lose more shiny ships in PvP... CDIA Based overlay resource for After Effects 6 Eve pathfinders Youtube

Chris Lehman

Doomheim

Likes received: 7

#77 - 2014-03-17 18:18:28 UTC

First of all I want to thank mynnna for the detailed post on trading.

I'm still far below 100 billion ISK, but I intend to get there eventually. Taking advantage of the spread between buy and sell orders has worked very well for me, but after looking at some screencaps I must conclude I am still relatively poor

What would I do with 100b ISK? Is that enough for a Raven State Issue?

Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 26
Rashnu Gorbani Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation Likes received: 26	#78 - 2014-03-18 12:32:01 UTC I would be in trouble because I'd have to find a way to invest it that yields more profit than just keeping it in plexes.

Apolitical 49
Hedge Fox Apolitical Likes received: 49	#79 - 2014-03-19 17:58:50 UTC 1 I think I would deposit all of it into the next bank and sit back and stare at my 0.25% a week.