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Does Eve need new players?

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Tesco Ergo Sum
#101 - 2014-02-19 19:45:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tesco Ergo Sum
Knights Armament wrote:
Tesco Ergo Sum wrote:
Knights Armament wrote:
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
Its like this whole thread exists in some alternate universe where Brave Newbies doesn't exist.


BNI is **** newbies are better off avoiding that trap.


I've had more fun with BNI in a few hours than in all my years in BlueSec...

The game would be in a sad state without them, it's good to see CCP make some changes for them rather than the usual suspects.



BNI has way too many rules which alienate a large part of the EvE population, the fleets are made up of spy alts who jump you into their friends to be slaughtered. I guess that can be fun.


I did say fun "with" not fun "in". I like their attitude and if they have rules I'm sure they are nowhere near as bad as most of BlueSec...

Spies are inevitable but not as revenant as in some alliances Evil
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#102 - 2014-02-19 19:51:18 UTC
Can't believe people are still biting on the IZ troll.
Spurty
#103 - 2014-02-19 19:58:42 UTC
Give all new players 30mill skill points but no isk

Now they can max out at the very least one race pvp ready to go.

Result? Who knows (no you really don't know so shut up), but there will be no more of the "I can't catch up" nonsense.

After that not a lot will change.

Are you asking for war secs to be removed? So few people rely on them that this too is also an unknown if changed.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Tesco Ergo Sum
#104 - 2014-02-19 20:06:19 UTC
Spurty wrote:
Give all new players 30mill skill points but no isk

Now they can max out at the very least one race pvp ready to go.

Result? Who knows (no you really don't know so shut up), but there will be no more of the "I can't catch up" nonsense.

After that not a lot will change.

Are you asking for war secs to be removed? So few people rely on them that this too is also an unknown if changed.


This would never be abused to make ganking alts... NEVER!
Knights Armament
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#105 - 2014-02-19 20:11:44 UTC
Tesco Ergo Sum wrote:
Spurty wrote:
Give all new players 30mill skill points but no isk

Now they can max out at the very least one race pvp ready to go.

Result? Who knows (no you really don't know so shut up), but there will be no more of the "I can't catch up" nonsense.

After that not a lot will change.

Are you asking for war secs to be removed? So few people rely on them that this too is also an unknown if changed.


This would never be abused to make ganking alts... NEVER!


I have almost 20 million skill points, I still can't fly **** half decent on this character, not for another year. So its not unreasonable to say that 30 mil won't affect the game, and may improve it by increasing the amount of pvp and tears.

Click here to get something special for new players, an EvE Trial Invitation extremely rare, high quality.
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#106 - 2014-02-19 21:18:14 UTC
Oliver Wendel Jones wrote:
There is a massive advantage for people who have been playing for a long time, and also for those who can devote a lot of time to the game. Casual players are going to be at a huge disadvantage.


What competitive/pvp games are not like that?

Free 3rd party services

Buddy link w/ bonus 250k SP, you keep the whole PLEX upon subscribing
Knights Armament
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#107 - 2014-02-19 21:25:42 UTC
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
Oliver Wendel Jones wrote:
There is a massive advantage for people who have been playing for a long time, and also for those who can devote a lot of time to the game. Casual players are going to be at a huge disadvantage.


What competitive/pvp games are not like that?


Casual players have the ability to pay to win, or at least I'd hope they're doing something to justify casual status. No one ever voices the concern for hardcore players who are lazy, we would like free **** to help make the game less unfun.

Click here to get something special for new players, an EvE Trial Invitation extremely rare, high quality.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#108 - 2014-02-19 21:42:02 UTC
Oliver Wendel Jones wrote:
Ok, so I will get ready for the flames...
But I've read some news articles about how CCP is not attracting the new players needed to keep the game going and is trying to raise revenues through gimmicks like the noble exchange. Personally, I don't care what my toon is wearing. I'm more interested in what is going on outside the station.

I've tried to get new guys involved in the game, and it always comes down to the same problem. There is a massive advantage for people who have been playing for a long time, and also for those who can devote a lot of time to the game. Casual players are going to be at a huge disadvantage. Not a big deal in itself, but the problem is that many players get their jollies by preying on the new players. And fuel their sense of keyboard based superiority by calling them carebears, telling them that Eve is brutal, get over it, etc.

Now if these players roam into lowsec where there is an expectation of being attacked, then sure, that's their fault. But when new players are being bombarded by suicide gankers and war decs in high sec, then they feel like they don't have a place to go where they can learn and build up to the point that they can join in the pvp stuff.

I have friends with a high sec corp. They like to do pve and they don't bother other players. Their corp is specifically listed as a training corp for new players. Someone who is logged into the game 20 hours a day war decced the training corp so he could attack them in high sec. Funny thing is, this person only comes out of station in the nice tech 3 ships he has to attack the players when they are alone. When approached by several of the corps ships, he stays right next to station and docks up as soon as he drops to hull. Won't come out if there are more than 3 or 4 of the corps members online. So while this person overwhelms this corps players when they are alone, the kills get the attention of other corps that act the same way, so a training corp ends up getting multiple war decs in high sec. So their only option is to stay docked up. So they end up paying for a game they can't play because a lot of other players can't get their jollies by "picking on someone their own size" essentially.

And so they are going to get frustrated and leave the game. And it's going to deter new players from ever getting into the game. Is the ease of attacking newer players in high sec worth the game not getting new players? Not every player who could be paying for the game and promoting the development is going to be able to devote the time needed to become a null sec pirate. But these players benefit the game in many ways. Can the game survive if the majority of players are able to play for free by selling plex? Someone without the time to farm isk is going to have to pay actual money for time, and that money is what keeps CCP developing. Is it going to be much fun when driving away new and potential players results in the game dying off?

Ok, let the flaming begin.




OK it's the same issue all over again.

But I cannot blames noobs for this.

People do not live outside of the box, so to speak. Heck just yesterday I realized that if I thought outside of the box for a problem I could not resolve back in 1997 I would have solved that problem and improved my life. But no, only yesterday did I figure it out with a solution so simple I was in double-facepalm.


So much for that.


So of course noobs form corps when they should not. They should be looking into how to best target and utilize their SP while cutting their teeth in either NPC corps (and if it were up to me, NPC corps would wardec each other occasionally just to keep people on their toes) or joining some of the great noob corps we have presently.

Now, being a corp, they get wardecced by another powerful corp, and think that in order for corp to defeat corp, corp must be stronger.

Eve is not based on who is stronger. It's based on who is smarter. Bitter vets can tell you that ISK and SP don't win fights. Sure it helps to have say 100 million SP and a Mach for example, but let's suppose Captain Noobstomper is wiping the floor with a noob corp for several days and gets complacent while the noobs went and sought some good advice and now he's at 20 percent armor in his Mach jammed and scrammed with a host of rifters and cats in his crap.

It can be done.

But even more, noobs make the mistake that because it's a wardec, and war means fighting, that they must fight. This is in-the-box thinking. What's to stop the noobs from going nomad for a while? A highsec bittervet noob harvester is not likely to pursue unless the locator agent tells them it's only a few lowsec jumps. This means that if Captain Noobstomper still wants to play, he'll have to fly cheaper hulls because he will be worried about his "stats".

In the end, a noob corp can, given all else is not tenable, simply ensure that money spent deccing them is wasted and finding ways to deny kills to the enemy.


Do these new players even bother to brainstorm "what are we going to do now?" or is everybody still mindlessly trying to rat/mine/mission? Are people so stultified and Ritalined-up these days that if their bed was burning they'd still climb into it at bedtime?



Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#109 - 2014-02-20 00:16:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Uma D wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:


Why would anyone join to be honest? Its not the EVE that CCP developed in 2003.


The usual nonsense of Ziona...

Once again all you achieve is making me think that you bought your character and have not really been arround in 2003.

Yes EvE is not the same as in 2003, but unlike what you seem to be claiming it is a lot easier for players to get into the game, which you would actually know if you would have played back in those days.

Let me just mention a few things:

- New players get lots of free stuff from tutorial missions which players back in 2003 (given they would have existed) would have had to grind for over several days.
- New players have the advantage that they can learn a lot from old players while the people who played back then had to figure it out all on their own.
- Getting scammed is a lot harder unless you are unable to read. (Everyone who knows the old escrow knows what i mean).
- New players can make a lot more ISK and a lot faster these days, which makes ship losses a lot easier to replace.
- High sec is a lot safer than it used to be back in 2003.
- No more need for learning skills + higher base attributes + attribute remapping -> faster skill training for new players.
- Attribute enhancers are a lot easier to afford for new players -> faster skill training for new players.
- Ships are balanced a lot better these days (but of course in your book getting rid of fotm ships and iwin buttons is a bad thing) - does affect pretty much all players, including new players.

That is just a few things which I can quickly can up with which makes the life a lot easier for new players. Yet you run around and claim EvE was better back in 2003.

Which surely depends on the perspective. For people who liked a really harsh game where every single loss could actually hurt, yes for those EvE was better. For new players (the players this thread is about) it was by far worse than it is today.

These things you listed don't really make up for the things I listed.

1. You can never catch up to the older players. Yes the ships are divided into specific skill capped areas but you can never catch up. It takes a good year or more to train properly in cap ships. Personally I like that but newbies wouldn't imo.

2. Not being able to undock in a T1 indy, a exploration frigate (which people alpha without scanning just in case you have a sisters scanner) without fear of being insta popped with the majority of your newbie stuff is of course going to turn newbies off.

3. Getting ganked for 'lolz' in your brand new barge is going to turn newbies off.

4. Not being able to use a freighter properly, by filling it up, because some idiots think its fun to pop people with over 500 million in newbie stuff is going to turn newbies off.

5. Trying to play space colonization when its all colonised by out of control alliance numbers is going to turn newbies off. Like I said in another thread if CFC was a country, it'd be the 30th smallest, not the smallestl. They have more members than Monaco or the Virgin Islands (and likely more Virgins than both).


As for high sec being safer and people being more helpful no you're absolutely incorrect. People were a lot friendlier. There were pirates but there were also anti-pirates. There was a much clearer divide between the two then the current 'kill everything that moves to increase your killboard'.

CCP took steps to nerf out of control ganking, when it got to pandemic levels like it is now they would implement nerfs to reduce it to a level so that it was under control.

There was also a lot better level of decency. The very first battleship I owned I mined in a thorax over 2 or 3 weeks. I then gave all the minerals to someone I barely knew and they gave me my battleship. These days were a newbie to do that they'd end up on the forums with some lamers alt posting how they ripped a bunch of mins off a clueless newb.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#110 - 2014-02-20 01:05:39 UTC
New player, 3 months in the game, 3 month old character, no plex. Stopped reading halfway through page one because all of the ****-slapping is irrelevant.

I am in a noob corp, in high sec. I take a perverse pleasure in denying high sec war deccers kills, wasting their time, and spying on them constantly. It's great. Not very profitable, but great.

And that's really the only problem I see with being a new player in high sec. It's hard to earn your starter isk when you're dodging war targets, unless you're doing it in low sec where the big scary war deccers won't go Lol or flying a cloaky ship. Not everyone wants to use cloaks, and if everyone did we'd eventually see cloaks nerfed because all of the war deccers would be on the forums crying about it, but making bad references to experiences in null that didn't happen to emphasize their point.

Not impossible to dodge them without a cloaky ship either, but again you get into the making money issue. If you want to fly something that can reliably escape a gate camp or GTFO if they scanned you down with a neutral alt and zerg-jumped in on you, you're going to sacrifice the vast majority of your money-making ability as a new player.



So to summarize. Eve is getting new players. Lots of them. I joined with 3 friends, 3 of us are still playing 3 months later and we've added one more in the last couple weeks. We're all having fun doing drastically different things in the game. Every time there is a fire sale on Eve or starter packs I notice a huge influx of new people in my corp. I know they're new because I'm now one of the people who helps answer questions instead of being one who constantly asks them. I'm working hard to make sure that these people don't have one whiff of noob about them by the time they filter into your pirate/null/indy corp and just appear to be yet another vet's alt.

I've got this, now shut up and get back to your w-bear/nullbear/incybear grind and leave the high sec shenanigans to the noobs and the people too lazy to even be an F1 monkey for the Goons. Nice how the word bear can be awkwardly slapped onto the end of almost anything, isn't it? P

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#111 - 2014-02-20 02:22:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
Bohneik Itohn wrote:

And that's really the only problem I see with being a new player in high sec. It's hard to earn your starter isk when you're dodging war targets, unless you're doing it in low sec where the big scary war deccers won't go Lol or flying a cloaky ship. Not everyone wants to use cloaks, and if everyone did we'd eventually see cloaks nerfed because all of the war deccers would be on the forums crying about it, but making bad references to experiences in null that didn't happen to emphasize their point.

Not impossible to dodge them without a cloaky ship either, but again you get into the making money issue. If you want to fly something that can reliably escape a gate camp or GTFO if they scanned you down with a neutral alt and zerg-jumped in on you, you're going to sacrifice the vast majority of your money-making ability as a new player.


You don't need a cloaky ship, just any ship fit to do the cloak mwd trick. When you get to your bearing system you go to the station and refit to your pve fit. If there is no station you take a mobile depot, put it in a safe spot, and refit from that.

Travel fit is, improved cloaking device ii, microwarp drive, warp core stabilisers, and inertia stabilisers, plus tank in any slots leftover. Look up the mwd cloak trick on youtube, its best seen rather than explained.

Separate local from the other chat windows and expand it to the full length of the screen. If a war target enters system, dock up. Or fly to your safe spot with mobile depot and fit your cloak back on and cloak up until they leave.

Watch Dscan for combat probes when missioning. If probes are on your Dscan they may be using a neutral prober, be aligning out to station or mobile depot ready to warp instantly if you see a war target enter system.

Make insta unlocks for all of your stations. Have jump clones elsewhere in case the war targets try camping you in (estel arador corp will let you join and make clones). Never go through trade hubs. Don't go through mission hubs. Make an intel channel with your corp, get people to report locations of any war targets they see. Separate this channel also.

Go bear in solitude region, they often can't be bothered to go that far for a gank. Or better go low or null or wormhole for a while.
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#112 - 2014-02-20 02:33:33 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Bohneik Itohn wrote:

And that's really the only problem I see with being a new player in high sec. It's hard to earn your starter isk when you're dodging war targets, unless you're doing it in low sec where the big scary war deccers won't go Lol or flying a cloaky ship. Not everyone wants to use cloaks, and if everyone did we'd eventually see cloaks nerfed because all of the war deccers would be on the forums crying about it, but making bad references to experiences in null that didn't happen to emphasize their point.

Not impossible to dodge them without a cloaky ship either, but again you get into the making money issue. If you want to fly something that can reliably escape a gate camp or GTFO if they scanned you down with a neutral alt and zerg-jumped in on you, you're going to sacrifice the vast majority of your money-making ability as a new player.


You don't need a cloaky ship, just any ship fit to do the cloak mwd trick. When you get to your bearing system you go to the station and refit to your pve fit. If there is no station you take a mobile depot, put it in a safe spot, and refit from that.

Travel fit is, improved cloaking device ii, microwarp drive, warp core stabilisers, and inertia stabilisers, plus tank in any slots leftover. Look up the mwd cloak trick on youtube, its best seen rather than explained.

Separate local from the other chat windows and expand it to the full length of the screen. If a war target enters system, dock up. Or fly to your safe spot with mobile depot and fit your cloak back on and cloak up until they leave.

Watch Dscan for combat probes when missioning. If probes are on your Dscan they may be using a neutral prober, be aligning out to station or mobile depot ready to warp instantly if you see a war target enter system.

Make insta unlocks for all of your stations. Have jump clones elsewhere in case the war targets try camping you in (estel arador corp will let you join and make clones). Never go through trade hubs.

Go bear in solitude region, they often can't be bothered to go that far for a gank. Or better go low or null or wormhole for a while.



My definition of a cloaky ship would be: Any ship with a cloak currently fitted in any of the available high slots.

If it cloaks, it's cloaky. Simple.

The rest of this? Yes.

Except for that crap about Solitude, can't waste a high sec war deccers time if they don't chase you. Wasting their time is how new players win, essentially. If you can't earn the type of isk you should be earning, then they shouldn't be either. Also simple.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#113 - 2014-02-20 02:43:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Knights Armament wrote:
I have almost 20 million skill points, I still can't fly **** half decent on this character, not for another year


With 20 million SP, you should be able to fly very decently through at least Cruiser level on at least 1 race, but surely on a second also.

If you can't have fun doing that, then you are in the wrong place.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#114 - 2014-02-20 02:45:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
New players won't catch up to the absolute SP, but the skills you train early have much greater effects than skills trained later, so they do narrow the gap even if they never completely close it. At some point you have nothing left to train except to get 2 percent buff on some whatever the **** attribute which has hardly any impact as you rarely ever get into a fight where this will save you than if you didn't have it. Stuff like leadership, capitals and industry can be ignored safely without losing any sleep unless you have a real urge for these things, in which case an alt can trained them simultaneously. Plus there's always the character bizarre if you want to pay to win.

If you're blobbing then skills hardly matter at all. If you get primaried by 100 maelstroms you're probably dead whatever your sp. If you shoot at something once even with a civilian gatling gun, you're on the killmail, so who cares about sp then.
djentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#115 - 2014-02-20 02:56:42 UTC
Knights Armament wrote:


I have almost 20 million skill points, I still can't fly **** half decent on this character, not for another year. So its not unreasonable to say that 30 mil won't affect the game, and may improve it by increasing the amount of pvp and tears.


Dude, if you have 20 mil skill points and still can't fly anything well - you totally failed, biomass, start over.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2014-02-20 03:22:33 UTC
Knights Armament wrote:
Tesco Ergo Sum wrote:
Spurty wrote:
Give all new players 30mill skill points but no isk

Now they can max out at the very least one race pvp ready to go.

Result? Who knows (no you really don't know so shut up), but there will be no more of the "I can't catch up" nonsense.

After that not a lot will change.

Are you asking for war secs to be removed? So few people rely on them that this too is also an unknown if changed.


This would never be abused to make ganking alts... NEVER!


I have almost 20 million skill points, I still can't fly **** half decent on this character, not for another year. So its not unreasonable to say that 30 mil won't affect the game, and may improve it by increasing the amount of pvp and tears.


I have 33 million SP, and enough vets on my KB to demonstrate how SP alone are irrelevant.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Dace Onio
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#117 - 2014-02-20 03:26:07 UTC
djentropy Ovaert wrote:
Knights Armament wrote:


I have almost 20 million skill points, I still can't fly **** half decent on this character, not for another year. So its not unreasonable to say that 30 mil won't affect the game, and may improve it by increasing the amount of pvp and tears.


Dude, if you have 20 mil skill points and still can't fly anything well - you totally failed, biomass, start over.



Gotto agree with this tbh, im very new only 2 month old an 2mill sp i believe, but i got t2 autocannons,t2 shields an t2 armor down aswell as my engineering skills to 5 an currently working on minmatar frig 5, god knows what id have for 20 million sp.

I do agree though CCP could possibly give new players a bit of a SP boost, but 30 million is just far far to much, they could perhaps tweak the character creator screen to add some choice to specialize in, an "boost" skill development in that area to more than what is currently offered, may hap by 1 mill SP

Is my understanding correct in that a trial account can start a new corporation and wardec another? if so that needs to stop and not be available to trial accounts

As to the OP, Eve doesnt need to change, new players coming from other MMO need to change how they play, how they perceive things should be and how they go about playing there game, the changes that might may hap/should need to be done in the game are prob best to be put into a eve2,A new dawn so to speak, i just cant/dont see any major changes in this game to be happening that wouldnt be best served in a totally new sandbox tbh
Karon Grandolf
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2014-02-20 04:21:32 UTC
When I began playing EVE online I loved it for a reason that only became clear after a couple of years. The reason was that it allowed for different levels of involvement, and made it possible to play the game regardles of what kind of gameplay I was ready for at that particular moment.

I could play EVE when I had no time for games; AFK hauling goods and gear using autopilot, while doing work, study or even sleeping. Mining would take a bit more involvement, and doing missions still more. Or I could be completely immersed for hours hunting targets doing small scale PVP.

The occasional wardec in high sec was fun too. A war would change the quality of play for a period of time, but war decs were not too common, and it was often a welcome change of pace.

It is clear to me that the different levels of involvement were a result of the game mechanics and the rules that guides PVP in the different sectors.

I believe that at the time, a corporation could only be involved in a maximum of three wars at a time.

I have recently returned to the game and find that corporations can now declare as many wars as they like. This seems to me to be a rather dramatic change. Now a larger proportion of high sec dwellers can be war decced at the same time than before.

Before the change a let's say two man corp could war dec three corporations, now they can war dec unlimited. This leads to a few high sec deccers being able to radically change the quality of play for a larger group of players at the same time.

This in turn reduces the possible quality of play that these people can experience in the game. This would not be much of a problem if the game was F2P, but when more players are forced into a limited field of possible involvement by war decs, and the war decs are more common, the game lose what I used to love about it. I find myself not wanting to pay for a limited experience.

The less involved gameplay is not as available, and it has led me to other games that will allow this.

I find that EVE has changed and now is less flexible when it comes to the quality of play it offers. I believe new players may experience that as well, and as the gameplay becomes more homogenous the playerbase will be as well.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#119 - 2014-02-20 08:40:52 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Knights Armament wrote:
Tesco Ergo Sum wrote:
Spurty wrote:
Give all new players 30mill skill points but no isk

Now they can max out at the very least one race pvp ready to go.

Result? Who knows (no you really don't know so shut up), but there will be no more of the "I can't catch up" nonsense.

After that not a lot will change.

Are you asking for war secs to be removed? So few people rely on them that this too is also an unknown if changed.


This would never be abused to make ganking alts... NEVER!


I have almost 20 million skill points, I still can't fly **** half decent on this character, not for another year. So its not unreasonable to say that 30 mil won't affect the game, and may improve it by increasing the amount of pvp and tears.


I have 33 million SP, and enough vets on my KB to demonstrate how SP alone are irrelevant.

Veteran MTU? :)

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2014-02-20 08:57:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Knights Armament wrote:
Tesco Ergo Sum wrote:
Spurty wrote:
Give all new players 30mill skill points but no isk

Now they can max out at the very least one race pvp ready to go.

Result? Who knows (no you really don't know so shut up), but there will be no more of the "I can't catch up" nonsense.

After that not a lot will change.

Are you asking for war secs to be removed? So few people rely on them that this too is also an unknown if changed.


This would never be abused to make ganking alts... NEVER!


I have almost 20 million skill points, I still can't fly **** half decent on this character, not for another year. So its not unreasonable to say that 30 mil won't affect the game, and may improve it by increasing the amount of pvp and tears.


I have 33 million SP, and enough vets on my KB to demonstrate how SP alone are irrelevant.

Veteran MTU? :)


Very funny, but you can only ignore the real kills to deny my claim. Such as the Gnosis I recently solo'd in Irmalin, flown by an '06 toon (I'm a 2012, single account, no boosts), while tanking him and a Tengu. I lost my own Gnosis to the Tengu, but not before my friends had arrived to finish him off. But, how did I kill that Gnosis alone, my friends still enroute, if SP is the sole contributing factor? Please explain.

I might just add that I'm not skilled for T2 medium guns - the Gnosis I used to beat him was using meta 4s.

*Killmails linked for the purpose of making a point, not for the purpose of bragging or flaming. This point needs to be made as obvious as possible due to IZ's nature to ignore realities she doesn't want to admit lest they prove her wrong.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104