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Over/Under on Null Sec Cartel CSM 9 members

First post
Author
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#81 - 2014-03-14 16:41:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
Malcanis wrote:
So basically: it's not that bad, Dinsdale. CCP can't help but consider the casual player perspective, because so many of them are.


From the last major public event, you could even draw the conclusion that they don't understand the non-casual perspective: both from CCP Seagull's admission about the way the game treats enablers (who are not casual players as a matter of definition), and from the eye-popping admission in the dev blog about the ghost site event that CCP expected the high sec kitchen-sink fleets to win. It struck me at that point that they have no idea how much work, nor what kind of work, goes into running a large, effective alliance.

It would also explain why CCP takes such care to balance T1 ships (quick, easy fun!) vs. leaving the corp interface in shambles; why they made exploration accessible to day-one players while leaving POS management, research, manufacturing, and PI as indifferently (or even anti-) designed clickfests. I'm not saying they shouldn't have done those things, but it's pretty clear where their priorities are. (To be fair to them, I imagine that it's much less effort to rebalance ships vs. redesigning and rewriting POS code--but even if you want to compare apples to apples, look at any combat ship rebalancing thread vs. the hauler rebalancing thread.)

(nb: I would define a casual player as someone without any significant investment in the game, whether of time, or of responsibility, or of attention. They won't spend too much time on, they won't do much optimizing or researching, they will tend to follow rather than lead if they don't just go solo, or do things on a whim or out of habit rather than as part of some larger calculation. The kind of play style is irrelevant; "casual" reflects their level of investment in the game, whether they're sov-holding alliance foot soldiers, shoot-everything pirates, high sec mission runners, or something else--but mining and missions, because of their particular ability to fit into RL time constraints and be forgiving of abrupt AFKs, are fairly compelling content for casuals.)

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#82 - 2014-03-14 17:25:33 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

While I see those people can't possibly have anywhere the free time to focus on Eve gameplay once they joined CCP, I simply can't accept that they empathize with the causal player.


I realise that it's not a logically rigorous argument, but the fact is that I'm in a position to know: you should accept it because they do.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#83 - 2014-03-14 18:31:25 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

While I see those people can't possibly have anywhere the free time to focus on Eve gameplay once they joined CCP, I simply can't accept that they empathize with the causal player.


I realise that it's not a logically rigorous argument, but the fact is that I'm in a position to know: you should accept it because they do.


Over the past months I have come to trust you, to a far larger degree than I would have imagined.
I do hope you are right. I guess the next round of changes with the summer release will be the proof in the pudding, at least for for the current crop of CSM. And those changes will start being hinted at by CCP in the next week or so, if past history is any indication.

I just get so irate with what I read on the forums. I have difficulty differentiating between the trolls trying to disturb feces and those that actually have CCP's ear, especially when they are often powerful members in the same corp's / cartel leadership.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#84 - 2014-03-14 19:45:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

While I see those people can't possibly have anywhere the free time to focus on Eve gameplay once they joined CCP, I simply can't accept that they empathize with the causal player.


I realise that it's not a logically rigorous argument, but the fact is that I'm in a position to know: you should accept it because they do.


Over the past months I have come to trust you, to a far larger degree than I would have imagined.
I do hope you are right. I guess the next round of changes with the summer release will be the proof in the pudding, at least for for the current crop of CSM. And those changes will start being hinted at by CCP in the next week or so, if past history is any indication.

I just get so irate with what I read on the forums. I have difficulty differentiating between the trolls trying to disturb ***** and those that actually have CCP's ear, especially when they are often powerful members in the same corp's / cartel leadership.


The internet used to annoy the hell out me too. My only advantage was that I started earlier, so after (counts on fingers) 16 years of forum warrioring I've learned to detect trollfuckery most of the time.

Fundamentally, you're faced with the same EVE dilemma in game as out of it. You have to pick someone to trust or you can't play.

EDIT: And if it helps, then it's to CCP's self interest that they don't alienate the casual players. They might not (willingly) contribute as muchg content as the glamorous 0.0 guys, but they do pay their subs like anyone else.

The flip side of this is that if you take a survey of the 0.0 guys, they would say that CCP caters far too much to the casuals v0v

What can I say? Welcome to politics.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2014-03-30 19:01:22 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Lastly conspiracy theories are for nutbags cooks and the ignorant.


A little harsh on people who prepare your food...

Also, babby's first taste of craziness associated with the CSM. Somebody take a picture.



It is also a little harsh on the people that said the NSA tapped everyones electronic communication all the time. Most conspiracy theories including all of Dinsdales are crazy but a few turn out to be real.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#86 - 2014-03-30 23:13:02 UTC
One conspiracy being true does not mean all conspiracies are true. That would be awfully weird and confusing considering how many directly contradictory conspiracies there are...

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#87 - 2014-03-31 00:58:45 UTC
mynnna wrote:
One conspiracy being true does not mean all conspiracies are true. That would be awfully weird and confusing considering how many directly contradictory conspiracies there are...


Well, let's see, you guys ran a massive forum propaganda campaign that ended about 4 months ago that was all about wrecking high sec industry.

Well, the first shoe dropped with the refining / reprocess nerf / null sec buff last week.
How about next week, the next shoe drops when you proudly announce that high sec industry slots are getting hammered.

But that would just be me being a silly conspiracy theorist.

And what is due in the winter release?
Something campaign about how there is massive inflation in the game (even though the dev blogs state there is deflation), and high sec missions and / or incursions are causing it?

Or how about an ESS module only usable in incursion zones?
Or perhaps, even more subtle, a total revamp of missions, resulting in an "improved game experience", but of course, the high missions will not be solo-capable, which will result in less high sec income?

You will not be satisfied until high sec income is totally under your control, or a tiny fraction of what it is today.
You are as evil and avaricious as any of the wall street exec's who brought the world to its knees 5 years ago .
As bad as any erotica1, or worse.

I would rather deal with 10 james315's over you, because you are far more dangerous, and destructive.
John XIII
The Carnifex Corp
#88 - 2014-03-31 02:58:39 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I would rather deal with 10 james315's over you, because you are far more dangerous, and destructive.


I love it when a plan comes together ~ Col. Hannibal Smith, A-Team

Between Ignorance and Wisdom

mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#89 - 2014-03-31 03:48:07 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
mynnna wrote:
One conspiracy being true does not mean all conspiracies are true. That would be awfully weird and confusing considering how many directly contradictory conspiracies there are...


Well, let's see, you guys ran a massive forum propaganda campaign that ended about 4 months ago that was all about wrecking high sec industry.

Well, the first shoe dropped with the refining / reprocess nerf / null sec buff last week.
How about next week, the next shoe drops when you proudly announce that high sec industry slots are getting hammered.

But that would just be me being a silly conspiracy theorist.

And what is due in the winter release?
Something campaign about how there is massive inflation in the game (even though the dev blogs state there is deflation), and high sec missions and / or incursions are causing it?

Or how about an ESS module only usable in incursion zones?
Or perhaps, even more subtle, a total revamp of missions, resulting in an "improved game experience", but of course, the high missions will not be solo-capable, which will result in less high sec income?

You will not be satisfied until high sec income is totally under your control, or a tiny fraction of what it is today.
You are as evil and avaricious as any of the wall street exec's who brought the world to its knees 5 years ago .
As bad as any erotica1, or worse.

I would rather deal with 10 james315's over you, because you are far more dangerous, and destructive.

Man some of those ideas aren't half bad. Wish I'd thought of 'em. You're a real genius at this stuff, you know that? Want a job?

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#90 - 2014-03-31 05:20:54 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
mynnna wrote:
One conspiracy being true does not mean all conspiracies are true. That would be awfully weird and confusing considering how many directly contradictory conspiracies there are...


Well, let's see, you guys ran a massive forum propaganda campaign that ended about 4 months ago that was all about wrecking high sec industry.

Well, the first shoe dropped with the refining / reprocess nerf / null sec buff last week.
How about next week, the next shoe drops when you proudly announce that high sec industry slots are getting hammered.

But that would just be me being a silly conspiracy theorist.

And what is due in the winter release?
Something campaign about how there is massive inflation in the game (even though the dev blogs state there is deflation), and high sec missions and / or incursions are causing it?

Or how about an ESS module only usable in incursion zones?
Or perhaps, even more subtle, a total revamp of missions, resulting in an "improved game experience", but of course, the high missions will not be solo-capable, which will result in less high sec income?

You will not be satisfied until high sec income is totally under your control, or a tiny fraction of what it is today.
You are as evil and avaricious as any of the wall street exec's who brought the world to its knees 5 years ago .
As bad as any erotica1, or worse.

I would rather deal with 10 james315's over you, because you are far more dangerous, and destructive.

Man some of those ideas aren't half bad. Wish I'd thought of 'em. You're a real genius at this stuff, you know that? Want a job?


Said it before, said it again. When you are in a position of unassailable power, you can be as arrogant and as smug as you like.

The ISD won't touch you, the dev's get their marching orders from the goons, in which case you are the conduit, and CCP management has either bought into the idea of "goons online" or is terrified of the consequences of trying to oppose your group. The only hope for the long term survival of Eve, and CCP is for investors with some balls to step in and stop you.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#91 - 2014-03-31 08:03:53 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
How about next week, the next shoe drops when you proudly announce that high sec industry slots are getting hammered.


Just so I'm clear, in the event that CCP make a much needed change by reducing the number of highsec manufacturing slots, grrrr, Mynnna?

Dinsdale for CSM!

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff