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TAUTX: Private Bank and Lending

First post
Author
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#41 - 2014-02-24 08:22:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Koniforous
Because: "I am ensuring the validity of all Shares, present and future, by confirming their deposit value has been received prior to their issuance, just as you receive a receipt AFTER you purchase something."

Whether he sends me isk for Shares, or not, I can continue with my bank as normal, regardless. Therefore, it is entirely up to him if he, and/or anyone else in the community, wants to receive a 5% interest rate on their deposit AND have the ability to withdraw those funds at their leisure, upon conditional agreement.

I feel, as I am sure many other pilots do, that this reliable banking service is lacking within the community. Granted, there are some trusted banks, but those have minimum deposit values that are not reasonable for all pilots. I aim to address this by allowing even the poorest of pilots to open accounts with me, by setting the minimum to something that is easily gained by all: 1mil isk.

This will not be a trusted service overnight. I understand that. To accomplish this, and gain the community's trust, I will have to develop a trusted brand, just as any other business. This is the TAUTX brand. If I were to improperly manage the issuance of shares and allow for unpaid circulating shares to exist, or be forced to closed TAUTX and restart a new bank corp, this would hurt all account holders, and the TAUTX brand. Tarnishing the level of trust I hope to one day earn.

I've been playing this game for 4 years now, and I absolutely love it. I love the community and the devs, and how beautifully everyone comes together to create such a wonderful and diverse universe within a universe. And I finally want to step away from the dark shadows of solo gameplay and try to pay something forward into this game, helping to shape it and contribute to it. I want to reward the community for helping me so much in an indirect way, by offering another solid and trustworthy pedestal of interaction, like the other trusted 3rd parties. And, as I've said, I understand that some of you will attempt to collapse this venture, and prod its weaknesses. I welcome that, because I want to sew any loopholes you find for me. I hope that I'm managing this bank correctly, and only time will tell.

With the initial 172,250,000 isk interest dividends having been paid out already to help prove my community goals, I hope many of you will continue to keep a close watch on my bank, and profits, and support us as I continue to remain dependable in my capital, and banking, management abilities. As a precaution to maintain this ever-running goal, and dependable brand name, I am issuing shares only AFTER having received your savings account funds.
Cavalira
Habemus
#42 - 2014-02-25 12:40:20 UTC
Why would you like to trade with other peoples money, only to pay 5% of your profits to investors? When I traded, I got all my stuff up loaning a few billions from friends, and I was debt-free.

I know a corporation in EVE, in which I've already invested, that gives 7,5% return, and has been running for 1+ year. Why would I choose your service?

There are already non-maturing bonds on the MD forum. This recent one has been offering 10% interest.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=316273&find=unread

I can't wait to see, what will happen when you accidently sell the shares majority to an investor, who could then take over the entire corporation and fuckup every other investor.
Mu-Shi Ai
Hosono House
#43 - 2014-02-25 14:22:33 UTC
I'd like to buy your silence.
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#44 - 2014-02-25 17:49:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Koniforous
Cavalira wrote:
Why would you like to trade with other peoples money, only to pay 5% of your profits to investors? When I traded, I got all my stuff up loaning a few billions from friends, and I was debt-free.

I know a corporation in EVE, in which I've already invested, that gives 7,5% return, and has been running for 1+ year. Why would I choose your service?

There are already non-maturing bonds on the MD forum. This recent one has been offering 10% interest.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=316273&find=unread

I can't wait to see, what will happen when you accidently sell the shares majority to an investor, who could then take over the entire corporation and fuckup every other investor.



I wish to use other peoples' ISK to maximize my personal profits, but also to allow my friends, and fellow capsuleers, an opportunity to create a return on some of their ISK they may not be utilizing. I realized that I could continue doing what I was already doing, but also invite others to into my profit gains, by pooling other peoples' ISK together. Again, this business and banking plan, will only appeal to a specific type of player. Generally, that player will have a lowered volume of capital, as well as a lower profit return on any of their own activities. I previously stated towards the beginning of this thread that I decided 5% was a comfortable return that would allow me to reduce the risk of defaulted dividend payments. Lower returns may not be attractive, but as the return decreases, the security of that return increases. I was aiming for a high success rate in terms of delivering interest payments. As far as being in debt, I do not perceive the situation as such. I perceive the situation as I have presented it: As a banking system; taking a players ISK and using it to generate a profit for myself and the owner, where otherwise no profit may have been made on someone's sitting sums.

If you feel there are better avenues available to you, I encourage you to seek them out. I believe I have explained why people should invest in a savings account with TAUTX, most notably: the increased security of promised returns due, in large part, to lowered percentage rates when compared to other investments.

Regarding the majority of Share holding, here is some useful information for you:

"Q: Why can't I make a vote?

A: You need to be either a Director of the corporation or the CEO in order to start a vote of any kind."

"In order to replace the current CEO of a corporation, the following criteria must be met:

You must be a member of the corporation in which you wish to replace the current CEO
You must have 5% or more of all shares in the corporation
You must have the Corporation Management skill at level two"

Keep in mind that I will always be the only player member of TAUTX, and will never seek new members. This is to ensure that corporate theft of Account holders' capital never occurs.

Also, keep in mind there are 100,000 TAUTX Shares(of which, I own 96,000 in my personal wallet), but only a current maximum of 4,000 in circulation (4%), with another 10mil Shares awaiting immediate activation in a previously passed vote.
Qalix
Long Jump.
#45 - 2014-02-25 21:12:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Qalix
Silly. Like all banks in EVE. Call it a bond, which is what it is.

edit: btw, when Bad Bobby gives you a lecture on the dangers of shares, you should probably listen. It's how he stole all that ISK so long ago (wow time flies, doesn't it?).
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#46 - 2014-02-25 22:55:44 UTC
Qalix wrote:
Silly. Like all banks in EVE. Call it a bond, which is what it is.

edit: btw, when Bad Bobby gives you a lecture on the dangers of shares, you should probably listen. It's how he stole all that ISK so long ago (wow time flies, doesn't it?).



I am well aware of his multi 100s of billions of isk theft from a corporation that he was a member of. Please read the above message in regards to some of the Shares mechanics and ways in which I am working with those mechanics to maintain validity of TAUTX.
Qalix
Long Jump.
#47 - 2014-02-26 16:39:39 UTC
Koniforous wrote:
Qalix wrote:
Silly. Like all banks in EVE. Call it a bond, which is what it is.

edit: btw, when Bad Bobby gives you a lecture on the dangers of shares, you should probably listen. It's how he stole all that ISK so long ago (wow time flies, doesn't it?).



I am well aware of his multi 100s of billions of isk theft from a corporation that he was a member of. Please read the above message in regards to some of the Shares mechanics and ways in which I am working with those mechanics to maintain validity of TAUTX.

And now for your thread's long, slow drift to the deep and distant depths of the MD archives.
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#48 - 2014-03-01 03:31:52 UTC
With profits reaching far beyond goals (verified through the Eve-Mogul link in my bio and on my webpage), I have awarded all February Account Holders an additional 5% interest, for a total of 10% interest on all Savings. This a personal thank you to everyone that has opened an account, putting their trust in me (despite my lack of reputation within the community). A personal thank you for helping me get TAUTX started.

I have made available 1,000 Shares for this March first enrollment period (the 1st through the 3rd) to expand the bank. At the time of writing this, that means that 1,525 Shares are available for Savings Deposits. If you would like to open an account and save some of your isk for a 5% interest rate paid monthly, please evemail me first, stating how many Shares you would like.

Shares will be issued on a first come first serve basis. And, as always, there is no withdrawal fee. If you would like to save your isk for only 30 days and withdraw it on the 1st of April, simply let me know when you deposit your funds. Deposits will not be accepted after the 4th of March.
Nedly Stark
ARAZ Engineering
#49 - 2014-03-01 07:05:38 UTC
I'm trying to be as polite and respectful as i say this: But I can't believe people are actually 'giving' you isk. (Or at least it sounds like they are..)
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#50 - 2014-03-01 17:43:15 UTC
Nedly Stark wrote:
I'm trying to be as polite and respectful as i say this: But I can't believe people are actually 'giving' you isk. (Or at least it sounds like they are..)


Well, thanks for trying to be polite about it. I can understand why you feel that way, I think. The truth is that most of the people are people in the alliance I've been a member of for a few years now. They know I can be trusted, because I've proved it over a long period of time. There is only a handful of people that don't know me, that have put their trust in me from the forums, and I'm very grateful they have. They will be the key members of my Bank that will truly help the others in the community to know that I am worthy of Investors.

Can you please explain what are some of the reasons you have not opened a Savings Account with TAUTX, Nedly? Maybe I could clarify some things for you, and everyone else? If you would like to do a reference check or something, I might be able to put you in contact with some of my clients.
Nedly Stark
ARAZ Engineering
#51 - 2014-03-02 01:01:32 UTC
I don't need to explain anything - banks are sketchy regardless of who's at the helm. Good luck with your endeavor.
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#52 - 2014-03-15 22:05:28 UTC
Koniforous wrote:

Well, I wasn't referring to my bank, Elizabeth. Just banks in general. And I should have clarified, that it should be a trusted and popular 3rd party. As for my bank, it is not backed by a 3rd party. Like my website says. If ever it becomes backed the information on the webpage will be updated. From a personal standpoint, I really like Far Wanderer's self backing, separate wallet division, system. I think if I were to insure my clients' funds it would be within my own corporation. I know that is not appealing to account holders.


Koniforous wrote:

There are several fail safes in place, and I believe that the "what stops me from taking everyone's money" problem has already been fixed. The remaining problem is that people don't take advantage of the fix.

The fix is to switch from a fractional reserve banking model (that most banks in the world use), into a full reserve banking model. Whereby 100% of all deposits are backed with a 3rd party.


Then what is your fix? I cannot see any way people's investments are secure when investing uncollateralized bonds, and in the end that's all you guys are offering. I also cannot see how the self backing separate wallet idea is at all useful, it seems like useless trust-building fluff. What Far Wanderer is basically doing is borrowing money and paying interest on it, but not actually using that money to make a profit.

You might as well just let people keep their ISK in their wallets and have them tell you their balance once a month so you can send them their 4% interest. That would be safer for the investors, and it wouldn't change the way Far Wanderer's business worked because that ISK was just sitting in a wallet doing nothing anyway. Let me know if any of you start this and I'll give you my wallet API so you can send me my monthly interest automatically Bear.
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#53 - 2014-03-16 15:49:39 UTC
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
Koniforous wrote:

Well, I wasn't referring to my bank, Elizabeth. Just banks in general. And I should have clarified, that it should be a trusted and popular 3rd party. As for my bank, it is not backed by a 3rd party. Like my website says. If ever it becomes backed the information on the webpage will be updated. From a personal standpoint, I really like Far Wanderer's self backing, separate wallet division, system. I think if I were to insure my clients' funds it would be within my own corporation. I know that is not appealing to account holders.


Koniforous wrote:

There are several fail safes in place, and I believe that the "what stops me from taking everyone's money" problem has already been fixed. The remaining problem is that people don't take advantage of the fix.

The fix is to switch from a fractional reserve banking model (that most banks in the world use), into a full reserve banking model. Whereby 100% of all deposits are backed with a 3rd party.


Then what is your fix? I cannot see any way people's investments are secure when investing uncollateralized bonds, and in the end that's all you guys are offering. I also cannot see how the self backing separate wallet idea is at all useful, it seems like useless trust-building fluff. What Far Wanderer is basically doing is borrowing money and paying interest on it, but not actually using that money to make a profit.

You might as well just let people keep their ISK in their wallets and have them tell you their balance once a month so you can send them their 4% interest. That would be safer for the investors, and it wouldn't change the way Far Wanderer's business worked because that ISK was just sitting in a wallet doing nothing anyway. Let me know if any of you start this and I'll give you my wallet API so you can send me my monthly interest automatically Bear.


Currently, I am making 100% of my income from station trading. Like it says on my website, I am not backed by a 3rd party, and in the event of defaulted interest payments or insolvency, I will sell off any assets to repay account holders. If any ISK remains I will pay owed interest. So, its effectively uncollateralized with someone else, but essentially all funds on deposit are continually converted into liquid and back into collateral assets. I am not currently offering loans or bonds with bank funds, only personal funds, so the chances of default are basically nil since funds are always in my possession (either as assets or liquid capital) and not loaned out to others that might default on their loans.

I see what you're saying about the self backed full reserve banking model. It doesnt make a lot of sense if you're the bank, only if you're the account holder. That's probably why the majority of banks in the world use the fractional reserve model, and why I'm not using the full reserve model. But, if the Far Bank is using it, and it's working for them, then that's awesome because their account holders are 100% insured. Assuming she doesnt run off with all their money. ;)
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#54 - 2014-03-16 17:53:27 UTC
Koniforous wrote:
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
Koniforous wrote:

Well, I wasn't referring to my bank, Elizabeth. Just banks in general. And I should have clarified, that it should be a trusted and popular 3rd party. As for my bank, it is not backed by a 3rd party. Like my website says. If ever it becomes backed the information on the webpage will be updated. From a personal standpoint, I really like Far Wanderer's self backing, separate wallet division, system. I think if I were to insure my clients' funds it would be within my own corporation. I know that is not appealing to account holders.


Koniforous wrote:

There are several fail safes in place, and I believe that the "what stops me from taking everyone's money" problem has already been fixed. The remaining problem is that people don't take advantage of the fix.

The fix is to switch from a fractional reserve banking model (that most banks in the world use), into a full reserve banking model. Whereby 100% of all deposits are backed with a 3rd party.


Then what is your fix? I cannot see any way people's investments are secure when investing uncollateralized bonds, and in the end that's all you guys are offering. I also cannot see how the self backing separate wallet idea is at all useful, it seems like useless trust-building fluff. What Far Wanderer is basically doing is borrowing money and paying interest on it, but not actually using that money to make a profit.

You might as well just let people keep their ISK in their wallets and have them tell you their balance once a month so you can send them their 4% interest. That would be safer for the investors, and it wouldn't change the way Far Wanderer's business worked because that ISK was just sitting in a wallet doing nothing anyway. Let me know if any of you start this and I'll give you my wallet API so you can send me my monthly interest automatically Bear.



Currently, I am making 100% of my income from station trading. Like it says on my website, I am not backed by a 3rd party, and in the event of defaulted interest payments or insolvency, I will sell off any assets to repay account holders. If any ISK remains I will pay owed interest. So, its effectively uncollateralized with someone else, but essentially all funds on deposit are continually converted into liquid and back into collateral assets. I am not currently offering loans or bonds with bank funds, only personal funds, so the chances of default are basically nil since funds are always in my possession (either as assets or liquid capital) and not loaned out to others that might default on their loans.

I see what you're saying about the self backed full reserve banking model. It doesnt make a lot of sense if you're the bank, only if you're the account holder. That's probably why the majority of banks in the world use the fractional reserve model, and why I'm not using the full reserve model. But, if the Far Bank is using it, and it's working for them, then that's awesome because their account holders are 100% insured. Assuming she doesnt run off with all their money. ;)


Okay, but what are the "several fail safes" you mentioned that would 'stop you from taking everone's money', or returning the investments if you get hit by a bus?
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#55 - 2014-03-16 18:47:37 UTC
Elizabeth Norn wrote:

Okay, but what are the "several fail safes" you mentioned that would 'stop you from taking everone's money', or returning the investments if you get hit by a bus?



Those fail safes I was referring to were in regards to things other than the taking everyone's money issue. I was referring to fail safes that limit losses and defaults.

To address the taking everyone's money issue, or getting hit by a bus issue, the only thing that insures deposits is 3rd party collateral funds/assets and/or an external board of trustees (which also has its failures, evidently!).

Personally, within TAUTX, I do not and will not ever take anyone's money and run off. I play Eve much like I live my life. I realize, however, that you have no reason to believe that. The only thing I can do is state my intentions and prove them through action, like I am doing and will continue doing. Sadly, if I get hit by a bus and die your funds will be lost. I guess I could write down my username/password in a will for my loved ones to return your funds, but that seems a little ridiculous. If I survive the bus encounter, well, I have placed policies on the website that render TAUTX shares valid forever and wil always recognize them as being worth 1mil each, minimum.

I will not be expanding TAUTX shares during the April enrollment period, and I think there are something like 500 shares available for deposit remaining. If you would like to take advantage of my bank, I think you should do it this coming April 1st while shares are still available, because I'm not sure when I'll take on more deposits next. 5bil is actually very comfortable for me, considering I've already manged to turn that into 12bil. As always, you can deposit anywhere from 1mil up to the remaining amount of shares in circulation. So, if you want to "test the waters" to see if I'm reliable and honest, by all means, you are welcome to invest 1mil with me and earn 5% until I get hit by a bus.
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#56 - 2014-03-16 19:12:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Elizabeth Norn
Yeah, I read your first few sentences and you're still chatting *Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal.
Cavalira
Habemus
#57 - 2014-03-17 12:40:33 UTC
Koniforous wrote:
if you want to "test the waters" to see if I'm reliable and honest, by all means, you are welcome to invest 1mil with me and earn 5% until I get hit by a bus.


This sounds like the typical 2x isk scam. Try it out with only a few millions.
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#58 - 2014-03-17 15:24:03 UTC
Cavalira wrote:
Koniforous wrote:
if you want to "test the waters" to see if I'm reliable and honest, by all means, you are welcome to invest 1mil with me and earn 5% until I get hit by a bus.


This sounds like the typical 2x isk scam. Try it out with only a few millions.



I'm not entirely sure how else to persuade people I'm legitimate and trustworthy, other than for them to deposit a small amount, track my interest payments, and then withdraw their funds a few months later. If I can use ~5bil in other peoples' money, double it in a short timeframe, and only pay 250mil/month on it, the opportunity for gain is greater for me to be honest than to rip people off for a tiny 5bil sum.
Qalix
Long Jump.
#59 - 2014-03-17 19:38:57 UTC
Koniforous wrote:
Cavalira wrote:
Koniforous wrote:
if you want to "test the waters" to see if I'm reliable and honest, by all means, you are welcome to invest 1mil with me and earn 5% until I get hit by a bus.


This sounds like the typical 2x isk scam. Try it out with only a few millions.



I'm not entirely sure how else to persuade people I'm legitimate and trustworthy, other than for them to deposit a small amount, track my interest payments, and then withdraw their funds a few months later. If I can use ~5bil in other peoples' money, double it in a short timeframe, and only pay 250mil/month on it, the opportunity for gain is greater for me to be honest than to rip people off for a tiny 5bil sum.

You can't convince people of something that can't be proved. The only way you could do that is to not steal what you're entrusted with, which no one will entrust you with until you can prove...

It's a Catch-22. And, as we all know, a Catch-22 is the best kind of catch there is.
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#60 - 2014-03-20 15:55:33 UTC
Originally, I had not intended on using TAUTX funds for capital lending. After you guys scrutinized this choice, I said I would be amending policies to allow bank funds to be used for loans.

I would appreciate some feedback from the community on what I have so far:

*LOANS*

2 week intervals.
1 month maximum term.

Collateralized:
2 week loan: 1.5% interest paid at terms end with principal.
1 month loan: 3% interest paid at terms end with principal.

*No age requirement
*Collateral valued at -15% Jita price at time of loan.
*Defaults are immediate, there is no grace period. Your collateral will be liquidated as soon as possible.
*Late and/or partial payments will be accepted.
*Bringing your defaulted loan back into good standing: If your collateral is still available it will be returned to you for the added costs of attempted liquidation (possible market and/or contract fees).
*Defaults may be forgiven.

Uncollateralized:
3.75% weekly interest
Scales down by 0.5% weekly interest for every 2 loans a client successfully repays. With a minimum weekly interest rate of 2.5% for trusted clients.

*Client must be greater than 6 months old.
*Defaults are immediate, there is no grace period.
*Defaults will render future Uncollateralized loans unavailable to the Client and/or its affiliates.
*Late and/or partial payments will be accepted.
*Defaults may be forgiven.


To make these policies more viable, I am considering an interest rate reduction on Savings Accounts beginning in May, to 2.5% monthly.