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Insta lock gate camps
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seth Hendar
I love you miners
#161 - 2014-02-19 14:26:47 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
handige harrie wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
There are many player-driven options to this problem without asking for nerfs...

1) Fit inertia stabilizers (better than nano for raw align times). i.e. Two inertia stabs & two nanofibers on a Punisher get its align to 1.9s for example.
2) Fit a cloak, MWD and learn cloak/MWD trick
3) Have someone in a cepter or frigate with 1 and 2 above fit scout you in
4) Refit once at desto to remove the stabs/nano's/cloak, or carry a mobile depot if NPC station not available
5) Added: Train evasive manuevers

F


In an insta gatecamp, fitting Istabs will get you killed faster than trying to burn back to gate, they increase your sig radius so campers can lock you even faster.

In a proper gatecamp, you're dead as soon as you hit align, without warping within the next tick.

that's why your first order should be a warp order, whether a celestial or a BM, followed by a cloack (unless using cloack + mwd trick indeed)

also, nano are better that istabs (istabs are a bad idea to fit most of the time, unless you are in something with an align time <2sec and bubble immune or in low / high, but in such case, nano would often be enought anyway)
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#162 - 2014-02-19 14:31:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Eram Fidard
Katrinna Voight-Kampf wrote:
Mildew Wolf wrote:
if you can align in less than 2 seconds they cant lock you fast enough out of gate cloak

also cloaks can help



I think you missed the instant part. Instant is faster then 2 seconds.


You are certainly cocky for someone who doesn't understand how the game works.

Here it is nice and clear for you:

-you load grid
-click warp
-"pilot initiated warp, therefore decloak, etc" packet sent to server
-500ms later server receives "pilot warp" packet, and in the next tick (1 second later) sends out "ohshit there's a ship decloaked" packet
-you enter warp
-500ms after server sent it (2000ms after you clicked the button, for those keeping track) evil pirate receives "ohshit there's a ship decloaked" packet and tries to lock, but you are already gone.

If you take a little more than 2 seconds to warp you are still ok since it will be a full server tick between the pilot achieving lock, and actually being able to activate tackle. That's a full 3 seconds of escape time for those playing in NA, bit less if the pirate is closer to main servers.

None of this has bothered to mention that you can mwd/cloak in the exact same server tick, then use the trick to escape any lowsec gate, and single dictor/small bubble camps in 0.0.


But HEY, no, you shouldn't bother to do things like learn the game, or take any of these obvious measures (mwd-cloak has only been around for 10? years?) to protect yourself. Far better that you just whine harder and hopefully CCP will change their game for you.

Extra Protip: If you ever get caught in eve it is entirely your fault. Every blockade is 100% avoidable with the right ship/tools/friends/whatever. Every single one. Some food for thought.

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#163 - 2014-02-19 14:52:37 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Hold Ctrl. It freezes the overview. You then put your cursor just below the last overview item. When the ship appears under your cursor, just click to lock.


To be fair, the overview seems to be rather ****** up currently.

ie. Holding ctrl doesn't lock the overview properly in every situation. Holding ctrl and clicking on empty overview results in nothing, until you release ctrl, at which point, whatever item you have selected gets locked instead. Aaaand on top of that, after a short while of this happening, I was unable to "safely log off" as "your ship is still trying to target something" despite having warped to a safe, left fleet, etc.

Something is really borked with the overview at the moment.

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
MonkeyMagic Thiesant
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#164 - 2014-02-19 16:44:44 UTC
seth Hendar wrote:

also, nano are better that istabs


Depends how close you are to the nearest second. With a lot of fits, nano doesn't get you there, and effectively does nothing to align time, while an istab gets you that key extra second.

For example: 1500 scanres trying to lock a crow, base locktime is 1.48 seconds, vs an align of 3.68s.

Nano: 1.48s lock vs 3.10s align
Istab: 1.44s lock vs 2.95s align

The lock time is basically the same, but the istabbed crow aligns a full second quicker.


Istabs blowing up the sig is probably more important for incoming damage, and you aren't getting the nano speed boost either.
Omega Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#165 - 2014-02-19 17:09:16 UTC
mwd + cloak >>>>>>>>>> enjoy gatecamp tears m8er
CERA Elitist
The Prometheus Society
#166 - 2014-02-20 00:02:37 UTC
Katrinna Voight-Kampf wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Katrinna Voight-Kampf wrote:
Kryptik Kai wrote:
Katrinna Voight-Kampf wrote:


Perhaps actually reading before responding might be a good first step for you.


Perhaps learning to play before posting might be a good first step for you.


That's probably it, im dying to insta lock gate camps, i need to learn to play.
That's the first sensible post you've made. I think we are getting some where.


Yes, i will buy a new account so i can have a scott to avoid insta lock gate camps. Their, problem solved, i have learned to play, im a pro at this, i avoid all insta lock gate camps.

*there
Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
#167 - 2014-02-20 08:04:36 UTC
Hey thanks alot for the replies. So just to make sure I got this right, I fit my merlin with a microdrive and a cloak and the best tank I can fit with some "nanos" (is that navigation rigs?)


As soon as I land in the gate I give order warp to ANYTHING, sun, planet station. Then hit my cloak then my microdrive. To leave the system I warp to 50km from the gate and look see for enemy ships. then warp to celestial and warp to gate at zero if its clear.


Have I got this right and have I missed anything? thanks again.

Will gank for food
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#168 - 2014-02-20 09:00:23 UTC
Tarojan wrote:
Hey thanks alot for the replies. So just to make sure I got this right, I fit my merlin with a microdrive and a cloak and the best tank I can fit with some "nanos" (is that navigation rigs?)


As soon as I land in the gate I give order warp to ANYTHING, sun, planet station. Then hit my cloak then my microdrive. To leave the system I warp to 50km from the gate and look see for enemy ships. then warp to celestial and warp to gate at zero if its clear.


Have I got this right and have I missed anything? thanks again.


Lol no, you got it all mixed up! Cloak mwd trick is as follows:

Fitting
- Fit an mwd
- Fit an Improved Cloaking Device II (prototype cloak will not work for this)
- No other modules are needed for the mwd+cloak trick on a frigate, so fit whatever you want

MWD+Cloak trick
- Jump in system
- Align to something, let's say sun. Remember to hit ALIGN, not warp
- Immediately activate cloak
- Immediately activate MWD; since you're cloaked, you'll only get ONE cycle out of the MWD
- As soon as that single MWD cycle ends, deactivate cloak
- Hit warp to sun

Google search 'mwd cloak' to get a better/more in depth explanation.

Nanos = nanofiber internal structures, makes your ship faster and more agile, may let you escape from a camp if you DONT use the MWD+cloak trick, but makes no real difference if you do

Tank = always a good thing, may let you burn back to gate without dying, but has no impact on the effectiveness of the MWD+cloak trick. If the 'trick' doesnt work you usually die because at that point its too late to burn back to gate!

Anyways, just try it, fail miserably a few times, explode, learn, like we all did.

Finally, checking the out gate is a good idea, but warp @100, the farther the better.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
#169 - 2014-02-20 09:23:06 UTC
Thanks :)

Will gank for food
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#170 - 2014-02-20 13:10:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Aivo Dresden
If you are getting caught in a Merlin, you have some other issues. Do you have maxed out the relevant navigation skills? You can get increased ship agility and so from skills. Evasive Maneuvers and Starship command come to mind.

I find that due to delays and so even when I'm in an insta locking Condor, plenty of people still get away. Same goes the other way around. I rarely get caught in a gate camp and that includes the Merlins I fly. Additionally, you can always just burn away and then warp. Imagine you lived in 0.0 and instead of some instalocking frig you had a bubble on the gate, what would you do then? Just burn out and hit warp.

Or if it's really bad, let them aggres and burn back to the gate. Jump through and you're safe.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#171 - 2014-02-20 14:11:15 UTC
MonkeyMagic Thiesant wrote:
seth Hendar wrote:

also, nano are better that istabs


Depends how close you are to the nearest second. With a lot of fits, nano doesn't get you there, and effectively does nothing to align time, while an istab gets you that key extra second.

For example: 1500 scanres trying to lock a crow, base locktime is 1.48 seconds, vs an align of 3.68s.

Nano: 1.48s lock vs 3.10s align
Istab: 1.44s lock vs 2.95s align

The lock time is basically the same, but the istabbed crow aligns a full second quicker.


Istabs blowing up the sig is probably more important for incoming damage, and you aren't getting the nano speed boost either.


unless you play with 0 delay vs TQ, 3.1s is enought to evade, but it is possible to get caught.

however, inty often use at least one polycarbon rig, or 2 nanos

crow + 1 polycarbon + 1 nano: align 2.86s
crow + 2 nanos: align 2.68s

those 2 combo are, imao better than using an istab, except for gate camping, a istab will also make you more vulnerable in combat, nano helping your speed + sig tank, while istab gimp those two
Amanda Rosewater
Universal Express
#172 - 2014-02-20 15:24:40 UTC
OP is an idiot who thinks because he can't avoid an insta-lock gate camp, it is impossible. Not sure why the thread is still alive.

As someone who partakes in insta-locking camps, it is not that hard to avoid it. Interceptors are impossible to catch unless they fail. Most frigates flown by properly skilled pilots are hard to catch. Things that warp cloaked are almost impossible to catch. Even haulers using mwd + cloak trick are hard to catch.

Stop complaining, start learning. If you're getting caught in a t1 frigate, your skills suck and / or your fit sucks.
flakeys
Doomheim
#173 - 2014-02-20 16:14:58 UTC
I used to instalock frigs in my raven ....


.. no i'm not shitting you and i'd onevolley them too with my torps .Those where the good old days , damn that stacking penalty Big smile .

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#174 - 2014-02-20 19:28:23 UTC
one time bump to fix forum
Akira Nikkou
Lord Of The Fries
#175 - 2014-02-27 09:06:58 UTC
so how does the mwd+cloak trick work when it is your pod which gets instalocked ?
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#176 - 2014-02-27 09:45:41 UTC
Akira Nikkou wrote:
so how does the mwd+cloak trick work when it is your pod which gets instalocked ?


pods insta warp.

If you suddenly find your spaceship sploded, you might get podded through not expecting it (been there, done that), but if you happen to be aware your space ship is exploding, only a smartbomb or being in a nullsec bubble is going to stop the pod. likewise its pretty safe to pod about in low if you have sufficient intel on gates to be sure there is no smartbomb camps.

if you have an implantless pod (ie a pvp pod) then you can set the medical next to the gate you want to scout, and scout with the pod for little loss anyway (unless you are like me and have too many SP and expensive medical clones).
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#177 - 2014-02-27 14:17:58 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
If they weren't fast or instant locking, you might have gotten away. Then what would be the point of gate camping?

You are 100% right...what is the point of gate camping...lets get grid of it..great suggestion. Big smile
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#178 - 2014-02-27 15:12:59 UTC
Katrinna Voight-Kampf wrote:
I'm trying to find an aspect of these mechanics that isn't broken, but frankly instalocking camps are unavoidable, if you jump into one, you're getting caught, even in a frigate.

Something has to be done to fix this issue, it's killing the fun out of the game.


Thank you.


No. There is no such thing as a insta-lock - its always one minimum second. when in a frigate fit nanos.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#179 - 2014-03-03 08:53:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
A few nights ago I was enjoying a rather robust romp in an interceptor.

I had 2 stabs fitted and yeah, I know, "nobody should use those! go back to WoW! Marsha Marsha Marsha!" and to those who say that I say "stick to blobbing, son".

Seriously - you don't use stabs in fleet, but nobody is specific about that. Use stabs in fleet and FC sends you home to change.


Otherwise, they come in handy. And when in a fleet, gate camps are no big deal (win or lose). When travelling, stab away or a couple of stabs and a nano.


Now this can be fun. I did get shot at and flew away from a warp scramble attempt too. The attempt was indeed instant. Probably have the pointer poised on the overview and the moment you "move" (that delayed decloaking effect is just eye candy) you show up and they lock you.

That was a single corp with 1 third of it's members sitting on that gate putting the sebo to their interceptor and they didn't catch me. Apparently a disco BS is not excitement enough (which I expect sooner or later).

Anyway, that's a lot of work. 10 people, on a gate, waiting for somebody, anybody, to show up so they can kill them. Probably a cloaked spotter on the other side.

They were so mad they had combat probes all over the next system when they noticed I didn't dock.

So, instalock gate camps can be beaten if you fit right (I had also ECM as a last ditch thing). And the resources that go into instalock gate camps is no joke - this is not some gate blobbing monkey thing. It's a lot of equipment and you can beat it with a rack of stabs.


I don't think it's broken.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#180 - 2014-03-03 10:07:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Joan Greywind
Mentioned but let me summarize a few points:

1- Use map and intel

2- Scout

3- Know the area and chokepoints

4- Use cloakies

5- Use frigates such as slashers that warp before the server ticks, can be easily done, or inties

6- Stab that ship

Once I was camping a gate with 3k scan res ship and some buddies, then this Ishtar lands on the other side and jumps through, we were ecstatic, he is as good as dead. He decloacks aligns and then immediately cloaks, and then warps away laughing in local (well deserved laugh). This trick is called "mwd cloak trick" learn it, and you will get through almost all gate camps especially in low sec.

What I like about EVE is the fact that if you take precautions and don't **** up no one can kill you wherever you are. If you died then you had to have done a mistake. You just have to hope that you do less of them than your opponent.