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the 0.0 end game is upon us...

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Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2014-02-16 19:05:32 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
the only question is will ccp finally fix this?


Why should they? It is not their problem. They gave players mechanics to fight over null security, and instead it's inhabitants decided to be 100% risk adverse and create the legendary "blue doughnut" instead. The players have spoken, and CCP is simply giving them what they want.

My only complaint is that it is precisely these same people who always bemoaning high security for being "too safe." Their hypocrisy is simply mind blowing at times.



Guess you missed the super graveyard in B-R.


No one says that high is too safe, we say that is pays to much for the safety that is granted.


What if no matter how much you nerf it people still go there?

Because what you thought was an issue of quantity, was actually an issue of security and ease?

And if the players then go to low sec instead of staying in null.... do we nerf low sec too?
Do we balance the game around the convenience or sustainability of the null sec status quo? especially in light of them being the vast minority of players? Shocked

... or do we IMPROVE NULL ...

which is what the real issue is?

There is the smart way, the hard way,

and then you have the "hurf nerf highsec!" way,
which misses the point entirely.




Considering the raw number of PvE changes that have adversely effected null, yeah I think its safe to say that is out
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#102 - 2014-02-16 19:07:25 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:


Several regions get conquered yet sov warfare is dead.

Huh.


I'll rephrase that :

The ever-winning CFC conquered regions, is conquering regions and that won't change until a bigger coalition arises from...somewhere that isn't nullsec considering no one in nullsec can ever hope to compete ?

Sov warfare is dead. Some sov drops/changes will still occur, but they are so tightly controlled, so unavoidable that those sov changes are meaningless.

Let's say one of the CFC alliance doesn't please Mittani enough. They'll get reset and stomped on back to highsec within a week. Yes, that's a region changing hands. Is it interesting ? No.

Proviblock won't do much because they are weak compared to everyone in sovnull, N3 will keep their sovs for as long as the CFC allows them to, CFC squads will deploy here and there for "good fights". Is this interesting ? Can the situation evolve in a non-previsible way ? Not really.

Everything is about coalition-wide armies, no room for harrasment, no room for guerilla, no room for anything but 2k blobs.

That's what I personally call "Sov warfare is dead".
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2014-02-16 19:09:56 UTC
SMT008 wrote:


Everything is about coalition-wide armies, no room for harrasment, no room for guerilla, no room for anything but 2k blobs.

That's what I personally call "Sov warfare is dead".



Oh really?

Go watch Fountain some time
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#104 - 2014-02-16 19:13:58 UTC
Onictus wrote:
SMT008 wrote:


Everything is about coalition-wide armies, no room for harrasment, no room for guerilla, no room for anything but 2k blobs.

That's what I personally call "Sov warfare is dead".



Oh really?

Go watch Fountain some time



Systemic patterns aren't refuted by pointing to the anecdotal or focusing on the background noise.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2014-02-16 19:17:18 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
Onictus wrote:
SMT008 wrote:


Everything is about coalition-wide armies, no room for harrasment, no room for guerilla, no room for anything but 2k blobs.

That's what I personally call "Sov warfare is dead".



Oh really?

Go watch Fountain some time



Systemic patterns aren't refuted by pointing to the anecdotal or focusing on the background noise.



well as we speak there is a TEST captial fleet moving back into the NPC core .......so anticdotally, yeah there is going to be another TEST bitchslapping in our near future.
Rashnu Gorbani
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#106 - 2014-02-16 19:53:24 UTC
Onictus wrote:
there is going to be another TEST bitchslapping in our near future.

You mean goons will be deploying to fountain?
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#107 - 2014-02-16 19:56:18 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
They know precisely how safe null sec is compared to high sec, but they also know the fact that if you say a lie loudly and long enough, it is eventually accepted as fact.


Ok, so you understand that nullsec is exactly as safe as the residents make it. Can you tell me what the mysterious "lie" that you keep talking about is?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#108 - 2014-02-16 19:58:12 UTC
Onictus wrote:

Oh really?

Go watch Fountain some time


Fountain sov

I see no changes tbh.

What do you think is going to happen ?

Either the CFC will just overblob everything until the attackers get bored of not being able to do anything, or the CFC playfully send some chill subcap-fleet until the attackers try to drop the caps and CFC counter-blobs and kills everything. Or maybe whoever lives in sov Fountain will flex their muscles like they are tough, and call in the CFC if/when things go wrong.

Both outcomes mean that the CFC will have lost nothing.

So yeah, nothing of importance can ever happen in Foutain in the next months.

What I call "death of sov warfare" is the hyper predictability of all those outcomes.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#109 - 2014-02-16 20:00:47 UTC
Tesco Ergo Sum wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
the only question is will ccp finally fix this?


Why should they? It is not their problem. They gave players mechanics to fight over null security, and instead it's inhabitants decided to be 100% risk adverse and create the legendary "blue doughnut" instead. The players have spoken, and CCP is simply giving them what they want.

My only complaint is that it is precisely these same people who always bemoaning high security for being "too safe." Their hypocrisy is simply mind blowing at times.


Keep in mind, the people that are whining "high sec must be nerfed because it is so safe", don't actually BELIEVE that.
The vast majority are actual pilots inside the cartels, or their posting alts.

Their campaign is based on cynicism, and greed.
The more nerfs to high sec, the more people driven into renting from null sec cartels, (what, only 2 left when N3 falls?) , and the more income streams for the cartel leadership.

They know precisely how safe null sec is compared to high sec, but they also know the fact that if you say a lie loudly and long enough, it is eventually accepted as fact.


Sorry Dinsdale, I'm normally even more a 5th columnist than you but I'm calling you on this one.

You know full well how many posters have highsec alts and it isn't so much a question of "safe" as of "unchanging" and CCP realise this and know retention is higher with more variation or more "shades of grey" between High and BlueSec.

The nullsec cartels also aren't the only powerful entities in the game, just look at the financial powerhouses but I suppose you could (rightly) question their motives and how they use their influence. Conflict is good for their business also so the invisible hand drives the game in the "right" direction.

If you really want to make a change join the chorus for BLOPS buffs, you know it makes sense Twisted


Well, the way I see it, the biggest, most powerful groups calling for the economic decimation of high sec are the cartels. They have the most to gain with high sec's destruction.

CCP may see "conflict as good", and the cartel's may echo that statement, but every new blue NIP and NAP entered into by the cartels demonstrates what they really want, which is the opposite of conflict. So while CCP should be fundamentally against the blue null sec blanket, they never seem to get around to attacking the game mechanics that support the pins that hold the blanket together.

As for BLOP's, yeah, I would like to see them capable of hugely disrupting the botting deep inside the blanket. But that is a small part of what CCP has to do to save the game from stagnation and an even worse NPE than we have today.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#110 - 2014-02-16 20:03:06 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
Victor Dathar wrote:
You heard it guys, when you sleep people should be able to kill your stuff without you having any chance to defend it. Off to Dunkin to get me some blue donut munchkins.


well, to be a bit pedantic...

the scenario makes it clear that the option to defend your stuff is there,

you have simply chosen to sleep instead of logging in


Or simply recruit outside your usual timezone - Kalrus summed up the resistance to this very well when he said in response to me suggesting wise recruiting policy "Why should we be FORCED to recruit people who don't speak English?"...

I guess he doesn't realize the majority of New Zealanders, Australians, and the rest of the Asian Pacific region speak English extremely well.



You'd be amazed how empty goon space is in late PST hours. It's just wandering Americans on caffeine and Australians moving ships over breakfast.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#111 - 2014-02-16 20:06:24 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

You'd be amazed how empty goon space is in late PST hours. It's just wandering Americans on caffeine and Australians moving ships over breakfast.


Alas, not many live in the pacific, what with lack of land and everything.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#112 - 2014-02-16 20:07:33 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dinsdale, wtf? It took you 5 pages to show up for this? You are slipping.


I had better things to do this weekend than log onto Eve, or even look at forums.

Also, not anything new to read here.
More of the same "high sec players are bad players, null sec players are good players, nerf high sec" propaganda that has been stinking the forums for the last couple years.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#113 - 2014-02-16 20:09:40 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dinsdale, wtf? It took you 5 pages to show up for this? You are slipping.


I had better things to do this weekend than log onto Eve, or even look at forums.



Got banned from the internet cafe again, huh? You really should start wearing sweatpants for that.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#114 - 2014-02-16 20:10:09 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
More of the same "high sec players are bad players, null sec players are good players, nerf high sec" propaganda that has been stinking the forums for the last couple years.


That should read: "players who selfishly want to maintain the status quo because it directly benefits their own wallet are bad", "players who want broken stuff fixed are good".

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2014-02-16 20:15:43 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
More of the same "high sec players are bad players, null sec players are good players, nerf high sec" propaganda that has been stinking the forums for the last couple years.


That should read: "players who selfishly want to maintain the status quo because it directly benefits their own wallet are bad", "players who want broken stuff fixed are good".
I like how he slipped in the new-player-argument right at the end of his post. BAM, suddenly NPE. Out of nowhere! This guy is crazy. xD

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Doris Dents
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#116 - 2014-02-16 20:30:33 UTC
Tesco Ergo Sum wrote:
Doris Dents wrote:
I remember these posts right after 6vdt


Additional commentary requested, what (if anything) has changed?


Last time they waited until the war was actually over before declaring nullsec officially dead. Main difference seems to be general discussion gets ever more impatient with each passing devastating war.
Tachito Ichosira
Doomheim
#117 - 2014-02-16 20:46:39 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
More of the same "high sec players are bad players, null sec players are good players, nerf high sec" propaganda that has been stinking the forums for the last couple years.


That should read: "players who selfishly want to maintain the status quo because it directly benefits their own wallet are bad", "players who want broken stuff fixed are good".


So are the selfish players the ones in high sec or null?
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#118 - 2014-02-16 20:47:36 UTC
Tachito Ichosira wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
More of the same "high sec players are bad players, null sec players are good players, nerf high sec" propaganda that has been stinking the forums for the last couple years.


That should read: "players who selfishly want to maintain the status quo because it directly benefits their own wallet are bad", "players who want broken stuff fixed are good".


So are the selfish players the ones in high sec or null?


They're the ones who don't want the broken stuff fixed because they personally gain from it being broken. Which type of space they live in has nothing to do with it.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Tesco Ergo Sum
#119 - 2014-02-16 21:32:58 UTC
Doris Dents wrote:
Tesco Ergo Sum wrote:
Doris Dents wrote:
I remember these posts right after 6vdt


Additional commentary requested, what (if anything) has changed?


Last time they waited until the war was actually over before declaring nullsec officially dead. Main difference seems to be general discussion gets ever more impatient with each passing devastating war.


Attention spans decrease as hyperbole increases or some such...
Snagletooth Johnson
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2014-02-16 21:35:25 UTC
OP, you forget Goons also have RvB as their High Sec puppet..so the Big Blue Donut is now a Danish