These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

FOR THE FEDERATION !!!
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#241 - 2014-02-21 07:27:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Saya Ishikari
Eran Mintor wrote:
Saya Ishikari wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Eran Mintor wrote:
I'm starting to be in the "give it to someone else" camp. Neither Caldari nor Gallente seem to deseve it.

When my cousin and I couldn't share the stuffed fedo-bear my uncle got for us, we nearly tore it in two. My uncle gave it away the next day to a neighborhood kid we made fun of. He made his point.

-Eran

CONCORD could always use the resources, just give em the whole bloody system.

Toss in the other three homeworlds and sure, I'll go for it.


If there's similar disputes on those other homeworlds where those involved refuse to live in a multi-cultural environment, then sure. By no means should bigotry rule anywhere.

-Eran

I can respect the sentiment. But let me pose this... In the aftermath of a storm, can one expect things to be neat and tidy before the cleanup? The reality is that the voices on both sides calling for extreme measures are individuals, not the aggregate of all of our opinions. The door has been opened, but after all that has happened between the Caldari and the Gallente, it will take far longer than the limited attention span of most capsuleers for either, then both sides to feel comfortable walking through it. It will take years, maybe decades, but the long term result may very well be worth the wait. Let the ones who can't think beyond their pride alone scream as they may. History will pass them by.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#242 - 2014-02-21 08:11:52 UTC
Bryen Verrisai wrote:
Saya Ishikari wrote:
It's over.

And now it's over because both sides are sharing it.

Exactly. A bit different from the outcomes of the past, ne? What's being called impossible is already starting. It takes far longer than the average IGS goers patience to make something this critical work. So far, so good.

Bryen Verrisai wrote:
But what happens when someone like Roden, or the next Heth, finds before them an opportunity to seize the planet without the possibility of immediate reprisal?

We'll just have to put actual effort forth to keep that from happening, won't we? Nobody said it would be easy, but learning from our mistakes is far from impossible.

Bryen Verrisai wrote:
The current "solution" of co-ownership is a fantastic stalling tactic. But eventually one side will want it all (as the Caldari already do) and will be willing to act in pursuit of that goal.

It is a great way to buy time isn't it? Time that could be put to use in meeting as many desires on both sides as possible. And funny, I've not heard a thing about Ishukone planning some master stroke to seize Home, and they're the only ones the Federation is actually dealing with. Do you have any proof otherwise that isn't individual opinions on the IGS?

Bryen Verrisai wrote:
The only way peace can be guaranteed is if one side voluntarily surrenders its claim.

Quite a statement, given that is still early days. I'm willing to give peace a good, honest chance. So are many of my kirjuun. We've said as such, publicly and repeatedly. Are you willing to do the same?

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#243 - 2014-02-21 08:31:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Eran Mintor
Well, I had anticipated some comment regarding the Amarr-Minmatar situation...

I would strongly argue the two disputes are largely different with present-day slavery being the main issue between the Amarr and Minmatar, whereas the Caldari-Gallente situation seems to revolve around atrocities of the past. That's all I care to speak of on the topic of the Amarr-Minmatar situation in this particular thread.

For whatever reason, I decided to play devil's advocate today. I still think the best option is cohabitation, but when individuals insist that one party or the other be removed as a solution, then I'm inclined to give a similarly childish response. I don't really see releasing the planet as a realistic solution, but if we're going to act like children with the "I want it, you can't have it" mentality then we may as well go the whole nine yards and say, "If I can't have it, nobody can." Heth had similar ideas.

I get the feeling I've upset you with the way you keep referring to me as "mister Mintor" and apologize if that's the case.

-Eran

Edit: well you largely edited your post so most of this no longer applies and probably looks like I'm responding to nobody in particular....oh well, I'm too tired to change it. I'll just go back to talking to myself; see bio.
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#244 - 2014-02-21 08:40:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Saya Ishikari
Eran Mintor wrote:
Well, I had anticipated some comment regarding the Amarr-Minmatar situation...

I would strongly argue the two disputes are largely different with present-day slavery being the main issue between the Amarr and Minmatar, whereas the Caldari-Gallente situation seems to revolve around atrocities of the past. That's all I care to speak of on the topic of the Amarr-Minmatar situation in this particular thread.

For whatever reason, I decided to play devil's advocate today. I still think the best option is cohabitation, but when individuals insist that one party or the other be removed as a solution, then I'm inclined to give a similarly childish response. I don't really see releasing the planet as a realistic solution, but if we're going to act like children with the "I want it, you can't have it" mentality then we may as well go the whole nine yards and say, "If I can't have it, nobody can." Heth had similar ideas.

I get the feeling I've upset you with the way you keep referring to me as "mister Mintor" and apologize if that's the case.

-Eran

Quite the opposite, sir. You've merely engaged my attention. Honestly, I have to agree with you here, and laugh a bit at the analogy, since it's quite true. And that initial commentary of mine was a bit sarcastic sounding (which wasn't my intent), when I read it again, so it's been replaced by a more concise set of thoughts.

Addendum: Feel free to respond after a good nights rest. I understand. And the old saying goes... 'Sometimes, talking to yourself is the best way to get the answer you desire.' I do it to.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117
Bryen Verrisai
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#245 - 2014-02-21 10:21:42 UTC
Saya Ishikari wrote:

We'll just have to put actual effort forth to keep that from happening, won't we?

I suppose we shall.

Far easier said than done, though. Often times the bad guys only need one win to tear down the results of a whole lot of good works.

Saya Ishikari wrote:

It is a great way to buy time isn't it? Time that could be put to use in meeting as many desires on both sides as possible. And funny, I've not heard a thing about Ishukone planning some master stroke to seize Home, and they're the only ones the Federation is actually dealing with. Do you have any proof otherwise that isn't individual opinions on the IGS?

You're seeing an accusation where there isn't one. I simply stated that it is, by and large, the Caldari's wish to control the whole of Caldari Prime. Heth and Eturrer weren't hailed as noble heroes in the State for no reason.

Are the Caldari willing to compromise their desire for total control of Caldari Prime in order to achieve their simultaneous desire of peace? As of today they certainly are. But will that hold true tomorrow? Next year? Next century? The same holds true of the Gallente, though to a lesser extent (in my biased opinion) due to less of an emotional and cultural attachment.

All I'm saying is that it is human nature to want more, and that wars have been started over little more than "I think that I deserve that thing you have more than you do". As Caldari, you should be acutely aware of that fact.

Saya Ishikari wrote:

Quite a statement, given that is still early days. I'm willing to give peace a good, honest chance. So are many of my kirjuun. We've said as such, publicly and repeatedly. Are you willing to do the same?

I'm all for giving peace a chance. But frankly I prefer a guarantee.
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#246 - 2014-02-21 10:29:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Saya Ishikari
Bryen Verrisai wrote:
Saya Ishikari wrote:

We'll just have to put actual effort forth to keep that from happening, won't we?

I suppose we shall.

Far easier said than done, though. Often times the bad guys only need one win to tear down the results of a whole lot of good works.

Saya Ishikari wrote:

It is a great way to buy time isn't it? Time that could be put to use in meeting as many desires on both sides as possible. And funny, I've not heard a thing about Ishukone planning some master stroke to seize Home, and they're the only ones the Federation is actually dealing with. Do you have any proof otherwise that isn't individual opinions on the IGS?

You're seeing an accusation where there isn't one. I simply stated that it is, by and large, the Caldari's wish to control the whole of Caldari Prime. Heth and Eturrer weren't hailed as noble heroes in the State for no reason.

Are the Caldari willing to compromise their desire for total control of Caldari Prime in order to achieve their simultaneous desire of peace? As of today they certainly are. But will that hold true tomorrow? Next year? Next century? The same holds true of the Gallente, though to a lesser extent (in my biased opinion) due to less of an emotional and cultural attachment.

All I'm saying is that it is human nature to want more, and that wars have been started over little more than "I think that I deserve that thing you have more than you do". As Caldari, you should be acutely aware of that fact.

Saya Ishikari wrote:

Quite a statement, given that is still early days. I'm willing to give peace a good, honest chance. So are many of my kirjuun. We've said as such, publicly and repeatedly. Are you willing to do the same?

I'm all for giving peace a chance. But frankly I prefer a guarantee.

It doesn't seem that we really disagree at all, but rather are viewing the same problem through different lives. I see your points, and you seem to understand mine. A guarantee would be spectacular... Unfortunately, we don't have one. That just leaves us to do whats easier said than done, prepare for the worst, and work for the best.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117
Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#247 - 2014-02-21 13:31:44 UTC
I feel I'll never truly understand this situation. Nor my place in it.
As an outsider looking in, I can't see any resolution to the problem.
Pontianak Sythaeryn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#248 - 2014-02-21 16:37:16 UTC
Saya Ishikari wrote:
I'd missed your response. My apologies. I think a little digression is in order to clarify matters related to the above mentioned transition. I agree that there must be compromise on both ends, but I'm not sure you completely understand just how far Tuulinen-haan's proposal really reaches.

... words.


Clarification noted and understood! So long as the Federation citizens choosing to become Caldari in the manner prescribed can also be expected to retain duel citizenship, I think this is workable.

With that said, now all we need is the cooperation of our governments (and corporations in your case). *laughs* I'm actually going to bring this proposal to the next bloc meeting, and see what, if any traction I can get with it. I can't and won't promise change overnight... this is more of a seed type a thing that needs to grow into a tree. But as an activist within my bloc, I can produce noise which can't be ignored, and Roden would outrage to many people by going after my bloc. I trust you and Tuulinen will also start bringing this set of proposals up the flag pole so that it may reach the board on your side.

And hopefully, someday soon we can all sit around and enjoy a round of drunken drinks without all this crap between us.
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#249 - 2014-02-21 16:40:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Simon Louvaki
Redpants wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:

Since the “Evacuation” of Luminaire VII… Caldari Prime if you will,,, and the initial “occupation” by the Federation, its population demographic has become largely Gallente with a smaller native Caldari population.


While you expel the typical drivel we've come to expect from Caldari concerning the demographic population of that sad depressing rock (we all love seeing in the night skies on Gallente Prime,) I want to know where is your evidence? The Caldari of weak mental persuasion recite the same baseless claims to the sympathetic media when being melodramatic about how they've lost their homeworld.

Most Gallente you meet anywhere, in any region I go to want nothing to do with that planet, let alone live there. Hell, as senseless as most Intaki are I have to give some credit to them for being in agreement. Naturally the native populations of both Caldari Prime and home are smaller each time they census. Everybody is moving everywhere all the time so you can't point to dwindling native populations as anything solid.

Lastly, I have to ask, what's with the quotes around "occupation"? We didn't just occupy it, we bought it, owned it and rented it out. We made that rock our mule for nearly 3 centuries.


Mr. Pants,

There is really no argument over the fact that Caldari Prime is now largely populated by Gallente, to simply put it, its a matter of fact and history.

During the evacuation of our Homeworld that well over half of the Caldari population on the planet was evacuated and moved to the colonial holdings of the States founding Okusaikas and to avoid economic collapse in the Luminarie system the Hueromont Government flooded Caldari Prime with immigration incentives that saw the restoration of its population within a decade.

If it weren't for the simple fact that we do have solid evidence that the majority population isn't Caldari, its simply isn't possible for the population that remained to have grown to overcome the majority of immigrants that flooded it due to Federal encouragement.

Evidence is readily available.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#250 - 2014-02-21 18:52:59 UTC
Saya Ishikari wrote:
Eran Mintor wrote:
Saya Ishikari wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Eran Mintor wrote:
I'm starting to be in the "give it to someone else" camp. Neither Caldari nor Gallente seem to deseve it.

When my cousin and I couldn't share the stuffed fedo-bear my uncle got for us, we nearly tore it in two. My uncle gave it away the next day to a neighborhood kid we made fun of. He made his point.

-Eran

CONCORD could always use the resources, just give em the whole bloody system.

Toss in the other three homeworlds and sure, I'll go for it.


If there's similar disputes on those other homeworlds where those involved refuse to live in a multi-cultural environment, then sure. By no means should bigotry rule anywhere.

-Eran

I can respect the sentiment. But let me pose this... In the aftermath of a storm, can one expect things to be neat and tidy before the cleanup? The reality is that the voices on both sides calling for extreme measures are individuals, not the aggregate of all of our opinions. The door has been opened, but after all that has happened between the Caldari and the Gallente, it will take far longer than the limited attention span of most capsuleers for either, then both sides to feel comfortable walking through it. It will take years, maybe decades, but the long term result may very well be worth the wait. Let the ones who can't think beyond their pride alone scream as they may. History will pass them by.


I'm in agreement with you actually and don't have much to add. I don't expect thing to be happy-go-lucky between the two anytime soon. I'd much rather things play out slowly than people rush to "solutions" they don't fully understand. Like I said earlier in this thread, removing one side from the planet does not address the core issue.

Stigmas are hard to break and would require time and reworking of the way history is told. It will be the children and the following generations who overcome this issue. Most of the grey-haired women and men in charge are incapable to see past their prejudices and enact any social change. Remove the bigotry from the way history is told and promote understanding so as not to let history keep repeating itself; there's a good start.

-Eran
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#251 - 2014-02-21 22:17:37 UTC
Saya Ishikari wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Saya Ishikari wrote:
On the issue of those living on Home who don't wish to become State citizens... You know what, I can live with that. As I've said, we still have foreign elements among us. If it eases the road to get past this, fine, let them stay. They simply would not have the same entitlements as full citizens.....
I assume your comment is referencing Federal citizens living in Caldari districts on Caldari Prime?

Or is your reference more global?

Oh and young lady, take it form a “fool”, civility matters and words have costs.

I learned that lesson the hard way.

In order...
Did you ever ask a specific question of me? If so, I missed it. Please restate it and I shall answer to the best of my ability. If it's in regards to the expectations listed regarding Federal citizens, then please see the longer post that follows. Compromise is necessary by the very location of the planet in question, with only the most obstinate on both sides still pushing for an immediate all or nothing solution.

The reference is associated with the extreme case of Federal citizens (or any citizens, really) living on a Caldari Prime controlled entirely by the State. A hypothetical at this point. The reply could be applied to any similar instance of a foreign presence on ones planet which wishes to remain foreign, while remaining there. More specifically, and less theoretically, on a national scale, there still are a minority of foreigners who have gainful employment within the State.

As for the "fool" reference, you seem to want to take it as if it were an accusation, when I'd specifically stated I've never viewed you as such. I can't help if you choose to take offense after turning my words upside down, but perhaps it simply didn't get across as intended. If it was at all unclear, there you are; I've never taken you for a fool. If I did, I'd not bother speaking to you at all. It's not some weak attempt at word play on my part, but rather, a very literal statement and expectation from one intelligent individual to another that you know as well as I that the particular topic has been beaten to death by both sides, and a rehash isnt worth my time, or yours.


Indeed so.

I thank you for clarifying it for me.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#252 - 2014-02-21 22:52:00 UTC  |  Edited by: James Syagrius
Redpants wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:

Since the “Evacuation” of Luminaire VII… Caldari Prime if you will,,, and the initial “occupation” by the Federation, its population demographic has become largely Gallente with a smaller native Caldari population.


While you expel the typical drivel we've come to expect from Caldari concerning the demographic population of that sad depressing rock (we all love seeing in the night skies on Gallente Prime,) I want to know where is your evidence? The Caldari of weak mental persuasion recite the same baseless claims to the sympathetic media when being melodramatic about how they've lost their homeworld.

Sir. I have sent you privately a link to the information referenced.
Redpants wrote:
Most Gallente you meet anywhere, in any region I go to want nothing to do with that planet, let alone live there. Hell, as senseless as most Intaki are I have to give some credit to them for being in agreement. Naturally the native populations of both Caldari Prime and home are smaller each time they census. Everybody is moving everywhere all the time so you can't point to dwindling native populations as anything solid.

I believe I was referencing the fact that the population of Caldari Prime has been for generations largely Gallente. As to your reference to smaller “native” populations in general, that is your supposition so I cannot say.

Redpants wrote:
Lastly, I have to ask, what's with the quotes around "occupation"? We didn't just occupy it, we bought it, owned it and rented it out. We made that rock our mule for nearly 3 centuries.

Your tone is disturbing.

We did for right or wrong “occupy” Caldari Prime.

Many of our kin since made it their home.

Many fought and bleed for it during the latest State “Occupation”.

While I dislike the States attitude and actions Mr….. Redpants.

I cannot begrudge any individual Cadari her or his birthright.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Steffanie Saissore
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#253 - 2014-02-22 00:14:58 UTC
Redpants wrote:


Lastly, I have to ask, what's with the quotes around "occupation"? We didn't just occupy it, we bought it, owned it and rented it out. We made that rock our mule for nearly 3 centuries.


Bought it? With the blood of how many Gallente? It is attitudes like yours that give me concerns about the future of the Federation. Caldari Prime is not just some worthless rock or rundown motel like you want to make it out to be. It ought to hold a special place in our history outside of being a source of conflict and loss. Our forefathers, in the early days of our journey into the stars came upon Caldari Prime and the Caldari here...our first contact and the initial steps towards the Federation essentially grew from that contact.

So, before you cheapen the homeworld of the Caldari, consider well your history...though from all accounts no one bothers to pay attention to the past since we continue to have these same issues over and over again.

We travel in the dark of the new moon,

A starry highway traced on the map of the sky
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#254 - 2014-02-22 00:17:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Apologies for the late reply.


Anja Suorsa wrote:


I don't buy that personally. The Planet is not for divvying up between vying factions. It is and remains our homeworld. Yes, the current status quo is as close to an amicable solution that can be achieved as things stand, but I can assure you that not all of us are happy to see half of our homeworld under the jurisdiction of invaders. Caldari Prime, emphasis mine.


The interesting thing is, the Gallenteans on Caldari Prime see you as the invaders. Invading a planet just because it's your birthright? That's the polar opposite of the meritocracy the State claims to be comprised of. While the planet may be your people's cultural homeworld, it's the actual homeworld for both the Gallente and Caldari living on it right now. The Federation and even some Caldari megacorps have accepted the reality that Caldari Prime is now a multicultural world. Now the Patriot Bloc needs to do it as well.

Don't get me wrong, Caldari Prime will always be the cultural and ancestral home of the Caldari people. However, it's certainly not something worth starting a war over, especially after nearly a century of cultural mixing.

Anja Suorsa wrote:
I also have to take exception to this rather bizarre viewpoint. Millions died in that battle, billions of ISK in assets destroyed. A titan crashing onto our homeworld causing untold ecological damage and this is a victory for anyone?

Not to mention that the whole point of Operation Highlander was the destruction of the Shiigeru, her support fleet and the conquest (once more) of our homeworld, crushing the enclave of henious Caldari within your Federation. Your borders are only slightly more secure for the loss of the Shiigeru and her fleet. The planet is still (in part) a Caldari enclave, albeit officially disarmed.


I know the Caldari are too proud to admit defeat when it falls upon them, but let's get real here. The results of the battle was that the Caldari Navy no longer had a foothold in Luminaire, Tibus Heth (the man who started the war in the first place) would lose power in the following weeks, and many of State's most skilled commanders were killed, forced to kill themselves, or arrested for treason. In addition, the Gallenteans who were forced to live under Provist tyranny for 5 years were liberated.

I am more critical of the current state of the Federation than most people, and even I admit that Operation: Highlander was a great achievement for the Federation. The numbers suggest a mere pyrrhic victory, but the actual effects of the battle are so much more.

Anja Suorsa wrote:

Finally, this war that exists is still very much one fought for the people of each nation (for right or wrong); war weariness grows as any reasonable person could expect, but the political will for your Senate and for our CEP to declare an end to hostilities is simply not there. Both fear the backlash from their people and rightly so. The silent majorities in both would likely not stand for it; whether for personal gain or ideology. It is not so simple as saying that ISK motivates the current status quo. It plays a part, just as we do; but neither are the cause for continuing this conflict.


I agree for the most part. I feel you are underestimating just how greedy people are, but I'll let it slide.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#255 - 2014-02-22 00:29:10 UTC
Pontianak Sythaeryn wrote:
Saya Ishikari wrote:
I'd missed your response. My apologies. I think a little digression is in order to clarify matters related to the above mentioned transition. I agree that there must be compromise on both ends, but I'm not sure you completely understand just how far Tuulinen-haan's proposal really reaches.

... words.


Clarification noted and understood! So long as the Federation citizens choosing to become Caldari in the manner prescribed can also be expected to retain duel citizenship, I think this is workable.

With that said, now all we need is the cooperation of our governments (and corporations in your case). *laughs* I'm actually going to bring this proposal to the next bloc meeting, and see what, if any traction I can get with it. I can't and won't promise change overnight... this is more of a seed type a thing that needs to grow into a tree. But as an activist within my bloc, I can produce noise which can't be ignored, and Roden would outrage to many people by going after my bloc. I trust you and Tuulinen will also start bringing this set of proposals up the flag pole so that it may reach the board on your side.

And hopefully, someday soon we can all sit around and enjoy a round of drunken drinks without all this crap between us.

Rapid change is always chaotic. Beneficial change takes time. I'll certainly see about making it into a formal proposal, and find ears most willing to hear it. We'll talk it over soon. Rikaato.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#256 - 2014-02-22 00:30:04 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
Saya Ishikari wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Saya Ishikari wrote:
On the issue of those living on Home who don't wish to become State citizens... You know what, I can live with that. As I've said, we still have foreign elements among us. If it eases the road to get past this, fine, let them stay. They simply would not have the same entitlements as full citizens.....
I assume your comment is referencing Federal citizens living in Caldari districts on Caldari Prime?

Or is your reference more global?

Oh and young lady, take it form a “fool”, civility matters and words have costs.

I learned that lesson the hard way.

In order...
Did you ever ask a specific question of me? If so, I missed it. Please restate it and I shall answer to the best of my ability. If it's in regards to the expectations listed regarding Federal citizens, then please see the longer post that follows. Compromise is necessary by the very location of the planet in question, with only the most obstinate on both sides still pushing for an immediate all or nothing solution.

The reference is associated with the extreme case of Federal citizens (or any citizens, really) living on a Caldari Prime controlled entirely by the State. A hypothetical at this point. The reply could be applied to any similar instance of a foreign presence on ones planet which wishes to remain foreign, while remaining there. More specifically, and less theoretically, on a national scale, there still are a minority of foreigners who have gainful employment within the State.

As for the "fool" reference, you seem to want to take it as if it were an accusation, when I'd specifically stated I've never viewed you as such. I can't help if you choose to take offense after turning my words upside down, but perhaps it simply didn't get across as intended. If it was at all unclear, there you are; I've never taken you for a fool. If I did, I'd not bother speaking to you at all. It's not some weak attempt at word play on my part, but rather, a very literal statement and expectation from one intelligent individual to another that you know as well as I that the particular topic has been beaten to death by both sides, and a rehash isnt worth my time, or yours.


Indeed so.

I thank you for clarifying it for me.

Not at all. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#257 - 2014-02-22 04:24:14 UTC
Saya Ishikari wrote:
Rapid change is always chaotic. Beneficial change takes time.


Words to live by.

The sound of the Amarrian heart
Noden Vorpalstar
The Knights of Polaris
#258 - 2014-02-24 22:18:55 UTC
I have considered much of what has been said in the discussion here over the last week, and I thank everyone for their input both positive and negative.

My loyalty remains to defend The Federation, our people, and the ideals of Freedom and Justice. I would like to make clear that myself and my organization will operate independently of any political party within The Federation.

It is clear that not all factions within The Caldari State are hostile to The Federation, however it is those radicalized factions which will be targeted for defeat.

Those organizations within The State which are not radicalized will be considered and treated as neutral until they prove themselves otherwise.

Noden Vorpalstar
The Knights of Polaris

Public Channel:  Polaris-Public Roleplaying Channel:  Gallente Lounge
Cuci Cairi
#259 - 2014-02-25 14:15:07 UTC
Be prepared for the long haul if you want to stay active in a public setting like this. Those fond of the Federation tend to stay away, creating a State echo chamber from time to time.
Pontianak Sythaeryn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#260 - 2014-02-25 15:42:51 UTC
Noden Vorpalstar wrote:
I have considered much of what has been said in the discussion here over the last week, and I thank everyone for their input both positive and negative.

My loyalty remains to defend The Federation, our people, and the ideals of Freedom and Justice. I would like to make clear that myself and my organization will operate independently of any political party within The Federation.

It is clear that not all factions within The Caldari State are hostile to The Federation, however it is those radicalized factions which will be targeted for defeat.

Those organizations within The State which are not radicalized will be considered and treated as neutral until they prove themselves otherwise.

Noden Vorpalstar
The Knights of Polaris


I'm glad to see you've started to realize things are not always so Black and White. Tell me, are the Dragonaurs your main target at this point? Nasty group them...