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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Are Links Too Much?

Author
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#141 - 2014-03-03 09:05:13 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Complaining about links in lowsec is really top-notch. When are implants scheduled for dispute, like slaves?

It's one thing to fly with an OGB that can easily be probed down and killed, or to fly with a pirate-imp'ed pod that no one can ever touch.


BLAH.
You know what? You don“t even need to probe ogb down. They mostly sit on station and if you agress them you will get blobbed to hell (+station guns, what means that you need to reship to kill it) or the ogb docks and the pilot belonging to it too because he has no clue how to fight without or even funnier: His ship fit would never wok without ogb.
Implants on th other side are fine. Pods are very vulnerable. Ask Santo Trafficante :D
Plus instalock dessies in a fight or intys are pods worst nightmare.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.

IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#142 - 2014-03-03 21:24:40 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Complaining about links in lowsec is really top-notch. When are implants scheduled for dispute, like slaves?

It's one thing to fly with an OGB that can easily be probed down and killed, or to fly with a pirate-imp'ed pod that no one can ever touch.



^^ This man gets it.

IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#143 - 2014-03-03 21:25:44 UTC
Milton Middleson wrote:


Grasping ......................................................... at......................................................Straws





We know man, we know.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#144 - 2014-03-04 01:00:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarnak Wulf
As you see peeps using boosters add them and said alts to your watch list. If you see them come into your local, only ask two questions:

Can I get a blob together?
Do I have my own links?

If the answer to both questions is no - dock up or get to a POS and wait for them to leave the system. Do not put any faith in having an encyclopedic knowledge of ship fits and resist holes and counters - it really doesn't matter.
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#145 - 2014-03-04 01:47:22 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:

We know man, we know.


I'm not the guy who made a length post composed of numbers pulled directly from my anus.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#146 - 2014-03-04 02:58:49 UTC
Milton Middleson wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:

We know man, we know.


I'm not the guy who made a length post composed of numbers pulled directly from my anus.




I will help you.
You know the old 'Give a man a fish .....' saying.


Here is your homework:
Try asking people how many toons they have.

Look at corps you know - how many toons are in those corps and what % of those are alts.
Magic right??? Who knew maths could work stuff/averages out???

I do not need figures from CCP to get a good ballpark average.
You might not be capable of this - understandable.

But the irony here is - What you are accusing me of is actually what you yourself are guilty of.
Your entire point is based on pure speculation about people who haven't even played eve yet that might play eve if something they don't know about isn't in the game they haven't played.

Crosi said it very well.

From your quoting of his post and your response, it is clear you did not comprehend what he posted either.
Maybe read his post again and you will maybe, just maybe be able to work out who is pulling the most out of their anus.




Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#147 - 2014-03-06 20:17:38 UTC
Quote:
Try asking people how many toons they have.

Look at corps you know - how many toons are in those corps and what % of those are alts.
Magic right??? Who knew maths could work stuff/averages out???


My god. It's like several years of development in statistical science never happened. Your suggested methodology is incredibly poor and suggests you are either dishonest or don't understand rudimentary sampling principles.

By your methods, I conclude that only a bare handful of Eve players have multiple accounts and almost all of them are industrialists or alliance leaders, with >90% of Eve's pvpers having a single account and a maximum of three characters. It turns out that if you ask people you know how many alts they have, your sample is neither random nor representative and is highly unlikely to generalize. Who knew (aside from anyone who understands basic stats)?

Quote:
From your quoting of his post and your response, it is clear you did not comprehend what he posted either


Crosi responded to claims I never made and was dismissed appropriately.

Quote:
Your entire point is based on pure speculation about people who haven't even played eve yet that might play eve if something they don't know about isn't in the game they haven't played.


I never claimed anything of the sort. On the other hand, Crosi made a rather extraordinary claim about the untapped market for eve online. Perhaps you ought to direct your criticism of speculative remarks towards him.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#148 - 2014-03-06 21:45:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Milton Middleson wrote:

I never claimed anything of the sort. On the other hand, Crosi made a rather extraordinary claim about the untapped market for eve online. Perhaps you ought to direct your criticism of speculative remarks towards him.


Not speculation, eve retention rate is famously low. Its widely known that this is due to a poor/difficult new player experience where people struggle to make new friends or realise they are so far behind older players they incorrectly assume they cannot compete.

Far more people have tried eve than currently play it. Given that most of these players were new an probably didnt engage in any consensual pvp, its a fair assumption they were generally unaware of the existence of boosts.

ts hard to imagine there is a huge potential audience that just wont try the game because of a end game buff mechanic lol.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#149 - 2014-03-07 00:07:44 UTC
Imagining that new - or veteran - players are turned off by OGB is no more preposterous then stating that a few dozen special snowflakes will make or break CCP. In business - for every person who is vocal and complains there are at least nine more who vote with their wallets and simply don't return. Why would this be different? CCP should always be looking to broaden the player base. Eve is difficult and yada yada yada - but it's better to have 50 people with 2 accounts each then 25 with 4 each. As they've spent quite a bit of time on the tutorial - it's safe to say they do care.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#150 - 2014-03-07 00:36:32 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Imagining that new - or veteran - players are turned off by OGB is no more preposterous then stating that a few dozen special snowflakes will make or break CCP. In business - for every person who is vocal and complains there are at least nine more who vote with their wallets and simply don't return. Why would this be different? CCP should always be looking to broaden the player base. Eve is difficult and yada yada yada - but it's better to have 50 people with 2 accounts each then 25 with 4 each. As they've spent quite a bit of time on the tutorial - it's safe to say they do care.


I agree. Maybe someone quit eve because of boosts. I disagree that it is a statistically significant occurrence.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#151 - 2014-03-07 00:43:35 UTC

As has already been shown, the benefits of boosts are unbalanced compared to the risk/effort vs reward.

The proof is irrefutable, and we understand CCP enjoys income from 2nd accounts, and we understand people like the added power level boosts add to their fleetmates, it doesn't change the facts: Boosts are too much in their current state.

Freako X
Doom Inc
#152 - 2014-03-07 15:55:19 UTC
I think off-grid advocates are deluding themselves. It is harmful to the game. Can you think of a game that maintained an out of sight boosting class for pvp? Most games provided alternatives and then got rid of the OOS boosting. Just because you have an alt account, doesn't mean it is a reason for off-grid boosts. I have an alt account and guess what ... I don't off-grid boost.

It is better for the game long-term to have on-grid boosts. Makes fights more strategic.

Implants are on-grid ... Cool. It doesn't take two targets to get rid of the bonus. Just the one pilot.

Not to get off-topic, but if I were an eve developer I'd advocate for:

No Local Chat. Alternative is no local in low and null-sec.
Combine station chat (region or even just hubs)
Add a low sec buffer between empires.
Create a lower skill Destroyer command ship (Think Algos command dessie with 1 module).
Add diversity to the stealth bombers (cruise missiles and dedicated bomber).
Add a stealth bomber that targets capital ships (think Talos with citadel, torps or cruise, missiles).
No OFF-GRID Boosts

Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#153 - 2014-03-07 16:10:28 UTC
probe links
kill links
If you go fight someone on their turf then expect links

I only use links for pve Bear

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#154 - 2014-03-08 09:09:34 UTC
If CCP truly cared about boosts being offgrid they would make link module increase signature by a huge precental as a quick fix till they can get them ongrid.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#155 - 2014-03-18 22:42:16 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Complaining about links in lowsec is really top-notch. When are implants scheduled for dispute, like slaves?

It's one thing to fly with an OGB that can easily be probed down and killed, or to fly with a pirate-imp'ed pod that no one can ever touch.


Each warfare link has a power level similar to an entire pirate implant set.

Snake Implants 1-6 give a 24% boost to speed to ONE SHIP.
Rapid deployment gives a 30% boost to EVERY MEMBER OF THE FLEET.

Furthermore, with your pirate implant set, you are limited to one major set of boosts.
With links, you can have boosts akin to a Snake Set, a Crystal Set, a Halo set, and more, simultaneously, provided to every member of your fleet.

Frankly, links are way out of balance with the rest of EvE's mechanics. This is irrefutable to anyone that actually looks at the numbers. Paying for a second account does not justify an overpowered mechanic. Months of skill training does not justify an overpowered mechanic. Links truly need to be balanced. This may be a nerf of their bonus magnitudes. This may be a nerf to their safety (move them on grid). This may be a hard counter to links (link disruptors).

Here are some deployable structures I think would help balance links:
A.) A device that you anchor in a system (like an ESS) that disables all fleet bonuses within the game.
B.) A device that you anchor in space that disables all fleet bonuses on grid.
Here is a link to the F&I Thread elaborating them.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#156 - 2014-03-19 01:25:51 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Complaining about links in lowsec is really top-notch. When are implants scheduled for dispute, like slaves?

It's one thing to fly with an OGB that can easily be probed down and killed, or to fly with a pirate-imp'ed pod that no one can ever touch.


Each warfare link has a power level similar to an entire pirate implant set.

Snake Implants 1-6 give a 24% boost to speed to ONE SHIP.
Rapid deployment gives a 30% boost to EVERY MEMBER OF THE FLEET.

Furthermore, with your pirate implant set, you are limited to one major set of boosts.
With links, you can have boosts akin to a Snake Set, a Crystal Set, a Halo set, and more, simultaneously, provided to every member of your fleet.

Frankly, links are way out of balance with the rest of EvE's mechanics. This is irrefutable to anyone that actually looks at the numbers. Paying for a second account does not justify an overpowered mechanic. Months of skill training does not justify an overpowered mechanic. Links truly need to be balanced. This may be a nerf of their bonus magnitudes. This may be a nerf to their safety (move them on grid). This may be a hard counter to links (link disruptors).

Here are some deployable structures I think would help balance links:
A.) A device that you anchor in a system (like an ESS) that disables all fleet bonuses within the game.
B.) A device that you anchor in space that disables all fleet bonuses on grid.
Here is a link to the F&I Thread elaborating them.


Dramiel is out of balance with the rifter. Doesnt say anything about game mechanics.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#157 - 2014-03-19 02:09:43 UTC
Comet
Slicer
Firetail

And it's not a Rifter, but since you hold Amarr in high regards should still work:

Dramiel

Skill > isk. However - boosted vs unboosted will win 95% of the time. A monkey could do it.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#158 - 2014-03-19 04:39:12 UTC
Gorski Car Platform

Not a fan of links but aggro timers would make me sit down on the subject.
Balshem Rozenzweig
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#159 - 2014-03-19 11:55:45 UTC
Got to admit I didn't read the entire post but got thru most of the first pages and saw that people advocating for links talk about fighting outnumbered.

That's cool, I get what you're saying but there are guys who use links to boost their 1 vs 1 frig fights and they are unstoppable then. You cannot claim it's a decent mechanic.

When you get into a fight you often have no way of telling if the guy is linked. Sure - if you are one of the 3 people in the system and dscan shows that other ships are a rifter and a loki you can be pretty sure the other guy is linked to hell. But when you get yourself into a system with 10+ in local and the system is around 50AU in radius then how? How will you tell if you're going against a linked dude?

Links should either show on the KMs so the guy using them cannot claim to be a pro in solo, or be visible in game (graphical effect or sth) so you can gtfo when you see them. Or at least come prepared.

When you get jumped by a blob you see some warning on dscan. You can react to that. Links are just nasty surprise and a game breaker. Argument that you can bring your own links is a bit weak for me. It discourages roams, because links are easier to use near your home system, and actually hurts the overall experience. If nothing else - they make the game more tedious, exhausting and boring.

"NUTS!!!" - general McAuliffe

Charlie Firpol
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#160 - 2014-03-19 12:18:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Charlie Firpol
Risk vs gain is just crazy with links.

Offgrid boosters never get killed, unless you make a big mistake, they give the biggest bonus to the whole fleet.
Pirate implant sets get rarely killed (unless you make a big mistake or go to nullsec) with nice effects for one person.
Boosters only last for 2 hours or so, can backfire and still only give the smallest effect.

Balance would be, boosters give the biggest bonus, implants 2nd place and offgrid boosts 3rd.
Edit: and should there someday be a difference between on and offgrid boosts, put ongrid boosters to 3rd place, off 4th

The Butcher of Black Rise - eve-radio.com