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Consent versus Acknowledgment

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Anomaly One
Doomheim
#121 - 2014-02-14 22:47:49 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Anomaly One wrote:
next time you get blown up in space tell your attacker this
"I did not consent to you blowing me up, I only acknowledged it"

Why would I feel obligated to say that? We should both have already been aware that my consent was not needed.


it's impolite to shoot at others without asking them first.
Just so you can acknowledge their consent, or lack thereof.

Never forget. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_ZjVyRxx4 Trust me, I'm an Anomaly. DUST 514 FOR PC
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2014-02-14 22:51:09 UTC
Anomaly One wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Anomaly One wrote:
next time you get blown up in space tell your attacker this
"I did not consent to you blowing me up, I only acknowledged it"

Why would I feel obligated to say that? We should both have already been aware that my consent was not needed.


it's impolite to shoot at others without asking them first.
Just so you can acknowledge their consent, or lack thereof.

Fascinating.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#123 - 2014-02-15 04:06:36 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Anomaly One wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Anomaly One wrote:
next time you get blown up in space tell your attacker this
"I did not consent to you blowing me up, I only acknowledged it"

Why would I feel obligated to say that? We should both have already been aware that my consent was not needed.


it's impolite to shoot at others without asking them first.
Just so you can acknowledge their consent, or lack thereof.

Fascinating.

So that's the way you see it.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Arancar Australis
Dead Sun Rising Enterprises
#124 - 2014-02-15 05:13:20 UTC
The use of the "You consent by undocking" is just a way for the agressor to pass the blame back on the agressed.

Why not simply be up front and state that this is the way Eve is, and as the agressor i see you as a target which i have decided i wanted to blow up? I would guess that the majority of those who intentionally attack another do not go " well they are in open space, thye have consented" but more of "Yay a target and can i get away with blowing them up...oh and shiny too"

I wonder why it is since this game is based on a non-consenual pvp basis, that CCP frown upon the attacking of new players in new areas...since after all, isn't Eve in totality a harsh place.

Either way, play the game as you see fit and take ownership of your own actions instead of blaming others.

Cheers,
AA
Myxx
The Scope
#125 - 2014-02-15 06:14:28 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:


But absolutely nobody has my consent or permission to do so.



It does not exactly matter in this context as to if you verbally agree to it or otherwise. The act of undocking means you are fully aware, and are okay with the prospect of being shot and blown up.

Those three chevrons you press when you undock? Pressing that button is equal to saying, "I understand that undocking means I could lose the ship and pod I am currently in. I am okay with this if it happens."
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#126 - 2014-02-15 06:19:04 UTC
Myxx wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:


But absolutely nobody has my consent or permission to do so.



It does not exactly matter in this context as to if you verbally agree to it or otherwise. The act of undocking means you are fully aware, and are okay with the prospect of being shot and blown up.

Those three chevrons you press when you undock? Pressing that button is equal to saying, "I understand that undocking means I could lose the ship and pod I am currently in. I am okay with this if it happens."


If the latter statement had any truth value, nobody would ever collect tears.

"Acknowledgement" fits your first (correct) assertion more closely than "consent" does, and is therefor more correct.

If you "consent," then there is no such thing as "non-consensual PVP."

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#127 - 2014-02-15 07:02:16 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Just quit [expletive deleted] the English language up while you do it. There are non-native, non-fluent English speakers in the game and on the forums and you are setting a bad example by misusing words.
we can also question whether a word can be 'deleted' if it was never there in the first place because we're all being pedantic turds today


Is it pedantic to point out that oranges are not apples?
Is it pedantic to point out that just because I see an orange, that doesn't mean I want it shoved down my throat?
It's called NON-CONSENSUAL PVP. What kind of ***hat do you have to be to argue that non-consensual PVP is consensual? What's next? Will you argue that banks must want to get robbed because they put all that money in their vault? Are we going to have to have ****-walk parade around Jita 4-4 in our Mackinaws and Hulks to get the point across?

Can you blow up a noob in a Retriever with your Catalyst or whatever? Yes.
Does he consent? NO!

George Orwell would **** on himself if he read this thread.

I acknowledge my spaceship may be violenced upon undocking. I do NOT consent to that. Acknowledgement is not the same as consent. There is no argument. Either you are intelligent enough to comprehend that or you are not.

you also used the word 'and' twice in the same sentence
Your Dad Naked
Doomheim
#128 - 2014-02-15 12:50:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Your Dad Naked
Tippia wrote:
Shrewd Tsero wrote:
But can you really say that by undocking in Eve you "consent" to PvP?
Yes.
By undocking, you permit people to PvP you and you agree to fly around in a full-PvP environment.

This is incorrect.
The game is what gives players permission to engage in PVP.

You (and many others up to this point in the thread) are confusing players having permission with players giving permission, which are two separate things entirely.
Deadonstick Puppyseeker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#129 - 2014-02-15 12:53:34 UTC
Let's face it, forum trolls and verbal skill don't mix very well. Most of the trolls here read at a third grade level.

Despite what you may have heard there's only one rule of EVE:

Never stop learning and realise there's always a lot more to be learned. To this end, seek wisdom in everything.
Clementina
University of Caille
#130 - 2014-02-15 13:37:58 UTC
Your Dad Naked wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Shrewd Tsero wrote:
But can you really say that by undocking in Eve you "consent" to PvP?
Yes.
By undocking, you permit people to PvP you and you agree to fly around in a full-PvP environment.

This is incorrect.
The game is what gives players permission to engage in PVP.

You (and many others up to this point in the thread) are confusing players having permission with players giving permission, which are two separate things entirely.

And who controls your game? Is it BoB? Tippia? Goonfleet? Citizens of the Russian Federation? Pirates? Miners? Do I control your game? Or do you control your game?
Adunh Slavy
#131 - 2014-02-15 19:15:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Adunh Slavy
Another Concept that the ass hat crowd will also attempt to muddle. Private Property.

Inside the game world, what is in your hangar, what is in your cargo hold and yes what is even in some jet can, is someone's private property. The ass hat crowd will now attempt to say that it all belongs to CCP. This is the only defense the ass hat crowd has, the distortion of context, in effect, lying out their hats by way of equivocation. The same type of lie they use to try and persuade anyone that undocking is "consent".

If it were not private property, within the context of the game, then no one would get upset by loosing it. If it were consensual PVP, then no one would care one way or the other.

The ass-hat, distortion mongering equivocating blow-hards of Eve defeat their own stupid childish arguments. And now I will enjoy as they all ***** and whine. Enjoy the nonconsensual exposure of your lies, ass hats.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#132 - 2014-02-15 19:41:32 UTC
I encourage you to try to get a court of law to acknowledge that fine idea you have there. Should be worth a few laughs when you get thrown out on your ear

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2014-02-16 04:30:30 UTC
Clementina wrote:
Your Dad Naked wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Shrewd Tsero wrote:
But can you really say that by undocking in Eve you "consent" to PvP?
Yes.
By undocking, you permit people to PvP you and you agree to fly around in a full-PvP environment.

This is incorrect.
The game is what gives players permission to engage in PVP.

You (and many others up to this point in the thread) are confusing players having permission with players giving permission, which are two separate things entirely.

And who controls your game? Is it BoB? Tippia? Goonfleet? Citizens of the Russian Federation? Pirates? Miners? Do I control your game? Or do you control your game?

CCP does, unless I'm not understanding the question.
Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#134 - 2014-02-16 06:08:15 UTC
I think the sentence "when you undock, you are constenting to PVP'" is insufficient. It should be "By downloading and playing EVE you are consenting to PVP."

By the words of the developers, and mainly CCP Falcon, the whole game of EVE is driven by destruction. Whether you mine, manufacture, market trade all of this is possible and driven by one thing, and that is destruction. Whatever you do directly or indirectly supports that destruction. PVP means destrcution and vice versa (people who consistently die to rats should go play farmville)

Without destruction (PVP) there is no EVE, accept it or leave it. You saying you don't acknowledge PVP, is like a gun manufacturer saying he doesn't acknowledge violence, hubirs.

And hey don't get full of yourself, I don't need your consent to shoot you anyways.

Fly dangerously
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#135 - 2014-02-17 01:02:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Mayhaw Morgan
Joan Greywind wrote:
I think the sentence "when you undock, you are constenting to PVP'" is insufficient. It should be "By downloading and playing EVE you are consenting to PVP."

By the words of the developers, and mainly CCP Falcon, the whole game of EVE is driven by destruction. Whether you mine, manufacture, market trade all of this is possible and driven by one thing, and that is destruction. Whatever you do directly or indirectly supports that destruction. PVP means destrcution and vice versa (people who consistently die to rats should go play farmville)

Without destruction (PVP) there is no EVE, accept it or leave it. You saying you don't ACKNOWLEDGE PVP, is like a gun manufacturer saying he doesn't acknowledge violence, hubirs.

And hey don't get full of yourself, I don't need your consent to shoot you anyways.

Fly dangerously


acknowledge <- so, firstly, that. Who is saying they don't acknowledge PVP?

Secondly, destruction is not always PVP and PVP is not always destruction. Did you know that when you mine using depletable mining crystals or run a POS or use a jump drive or change the rigs on your ship or even just fire a missile that you are "destroying", although, we tend to call it "consuming" in those instances. Do you realize that when you mine all the good ore out of a belt or complete all the good anomalies in a system or run missions for the corporation with the best LP/ISK ratio or just sell something for a lower price than the next guy, you may in fact be saving or even creating something, and you are doing so in response to competition with another player. That's kind of the premise of capitalism. It's a "creation contest" to see who can make stuff better, faster, and cheaper. Of course, even if PVP and destruction were the same thing, that still doesn't give you the right to blow up other peoples' stuff, regardless of whether you have the ability to or not.

Thirdly, maybe instead of telling us what CCP Falcon or anyone else (at CCP) said, you could just quote them. That way, we can get a clearer picture of what it was they were trying to articulate and we don't have to just take your word for it that CCP said you were right. Or . . . I guess since CCP knew that people in game and on these forums might try to misrepresent what their company said and stood for, they effectively consented to it. Otherwise, they should not have formed the company or created EVE and the EVE forums. Yeah, so, given that logic, it would even make sense for you to start demanding money from people to play the game and you could start selling PLEX and other in-game items for real world currency and vice versa. Right? But, then, by doing that, you would consent to them banning you and maybe suing the pants off of you. Am I doing it right?