Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You seem to miss the bigger picture my friend and mistake the title powerprojection only with assault and defense as a action. There is much more behind that. Its also about the possibility of moving the whole fleet from one side of the universe to where it is needed within minutes.

Let us take a working example from the current nullsec. CFC holds about 2/3 of the Nullsec sovs.

Lets pretend they are engaged at the northern theatre against N3 with 85% of their fleet positioned in or close to the borderregion to N3. Another group, attacks their southern sov. So for the rest of the CFC territory are 15% of force left for defence.

So, with your structures they anchor them in their space and can jump through their space relatively fast. It is slower (approx 20mins slower due to anchortime) than currently - yes- but it is still very very very safe and quick compared to gate travel. You've gained nothing, their power projection is just initially a tad slower.
Are you with me on that?

In conclusion: Set up your jumpchain, wait 20minutes and you can jump like before without having to take a single gate. Your overall traveltime is (Currenttime + Anchortime(20minutes)).


With PPP's they can jump once but have to cross the remaining route either through highsec or (with SCaps) have to go around through their own territory - BY GATE. Which is much more vulnerable to camps and attrition than jumping - are you with me?

In conclusion: The bigger the territory you hold the more PPP you need to cross it by jumping. Since PPPs are finite you need more pilots dedicated to theaters since you simply can not be everywhere.
A small alliance holding a few systems might just need 8PPP for a jump from one border to another so they can jump 4 times until their pool is depleted. A big alliance can maybe jump 1/4th of their territory and has to use gate travel then.
The more "surface" (read :more borders) you have the more pilots you need. At first its growing linear and rises exponentially at a point where a (single max jump+gatetraveltime) isnt an option to defend your space. Its like the girth of a sphere at that point.

I like the idea of Cynosural Fields as deployable objects with a spool-up (on-lining) timer. All the mechanics are already there. CCP would only need to swap a few digits in the database.

The bigger problem would be how to deal with the fuel (liquid ozone) usage. Should it simply sit there running indefinitely until it's decay timer has expired with no fuel usage? Should it be recoverable? Should it have a fuel bay?

Perhaps there could be different meta versions that can be jumped to from various ranges distances. They should have higher levels of Cynosural Field Theory required and larger volumes. Perhaps increased fuel usage.

They most definitely should not have reinforcement timers. I also think such a deployable should be allowed to anchor on-grid with other structures.

Currently the Cynosural Inhibitor is nearly useless because it has a significant onlining timer, whereas cynos do not.

You could use LO to build them, and once deployed they can't be scooped. Or you could put LO into them and it would run the module for a period of time based on the amount of LO and after it runs out you can scoop it. This module idea would be the easiest way to transition to a different cyno mechanic AND it would prevent ships from shielding the cyno i.e. a cyno on a carrier/super/titan.

Another thing about the delay to jump. It would be in order with the Micro Jump Drive module to have a delay.

No, i understand full well that it's about being able to move - that's the point - that ability needs to be maintained so everyone can get to the fights - the strategy level comes in trying to break open a specific place so that you can actually move there. - the point is to have those lines take enough time to setup that a random roam can cut them to ribbons 'yeah i could move from one end to the other...but some random jerk just took a sledge hammer to the roadway we weren't actively defending so we gotta wait another hour to set the damn thing up'

( though if the CFC need to use deployables to move through thier own sov then their cyno towers aren't up to scratch ;) )

thing is they have a force on both fronts anyway, all alliances do either their own or one of their allies, by increasing the time delay to get from one side to another, by allowing those chains to be more easily cut you increase the chance that the standing force will be obliterated first - PPP tries to do that but it does it by simply removing everyone's ability to move anywhere - again 2 hours is ok, 2 days is not - most fighting ends within half an hour - most fleet fights inside 2. and occasionally you get a system that has enough in it worth a fight that lasts for days.

there are already deployable cyno jammers to stop fleets landing on top of you - this works on the same principle - you know those fleets are coming, you know you can act with a much smaller force to delay them, you can also block them arriving at their target.

the strategic play then becomes 'how do i draw the holding forces out of position in this region - how do i lock them in place so i can get the rest of my fleet in/out - there becomes a need to wage several battles at once in order to get heavier assets into where they need to be.

i want them to come rushing at me with a giant fleet it means i can destroy them - at the same time for that to work i need to be able to direct the terms under which they field - and if they run at me here other people will get an openign to wipe out space on that side. (equally my opponent can fight to stop me, and force their fleet through on terms that aren't ideal) - right now none of that play exists - it's insta win cyno or it's not.

for all i've seen and cases that've been made here PPP is gonna choke the game more than it helps. force projection itself isn't the problem - being able to move is a natural component of being in space - that doesn't mean you get to always go where you like without someone else getting uppity about it - so all we need is a means to stop those fleets effecting a move to begin with, and if that's too much effort for your side then ofc they're gonna move, cuz you let them do it, the more space there is the wider the window opens.

forgot to do this yesterday but regarding the comment on 'how these structures work'

I was working on the idea that they would be a finite number of activations, (so one guy jumping makes the beacon active for 10 minutes or w/e timer much like current modules) and that would be the 'justification' to the structure, 'most of it is a large battery for the cyno generator and FTL com array it uses' - it would also serve the purpose of making the chains much less permanent than POS mounted structures as they cannot be refueled - opening up several ways using these could go wrong over longer distance/time frames.

so while the maximum decay rate would be 30 days, like a wormhole depending on the amount of travel it'd round out to be much less.

for this to work well though the system would be on a standings basis, so 'allow use by alliance standing, corp standing, personal standing' (personal is to allow for some interesting awoxing ;) ) and part of the spool up time would be used to configure these.

(current understanding is the cyno module creates a gravity well and uses fluid router networks via stargates and fleet secure coms to transmit data used by the jumping ship to accurately form and target the micro singularities they use to bridge/jump - so a standings based system wouldn't quite fit with this without a bit of fudging)

another alternative would be to recycle the pos shield password mechanic, so if you had the cyno passwords you could 'hijack' the cynos - eating away at some one else's jump capacity... w/o them noticing.... >=)

I know this, and it doesn't matter - eve's environment supports moving that kind of distance in that time, WW2 era did not, fleets can move distances - all fleets can move the same way given the same investment - it's a consistent environmental factor - i do not care how far they can move or how often because it doesn't matter - honestly? it's more advantageous to me that they can move at short notice, that they can cross half the cluster if they have to - it means so can I - and like any other environmental factor i can use this to bait trap and lure just as much as they can.

why is it all about combat? because that's the primary purpose of eve - all content in eve to a greater or lesser extent is to fuel PVP, mining, industry, markets, pve all of it a means to fuel war of some form - jump drives are no exception and the primary issue is not from the fact they are a convenient means of travel, but from dropping three hundred people ontop of a seemingly unsuspecting target with no means of prevention (cyno jammer structure anyone?) i use combat because it is the broadest most relevant case for the environment this system is proposed for, and for as long as eve is what it is i will continue to do so.

even your cases are built around the control of territory and the rapid relocation of armed forces from one extreme to another, lets face it no one cares that we can move half way across the cluster or not for a 1.3 Bn isk investment in hull and about 6 months in training, no, what we care about is the fact they can move a few thousand at once for about 80 BN and 8 months investment with little to no means of active prevention.

freedom of movement will lead to greater clashes of interest - the easier it is to start something the more likely a fight comes of it - as i said I want it to be easy for fleets to move, i do not want movement restricted by back end systems like PPP that no player action can do anything about, if movement is going to be restricted i want it to be because another player has come along and actively prevented me from using the resources i have - because they have blocked my path and thus provided me good reason/motivation to remove them.

i do not want travel to be risk free, thus i changed the means that such movement is facilitated to a form that forces an exposure to risk of attack - to a form that requires an effort from players to safeguard it rather than just log off and wait for an empty local - it must be constantly defended or lost -all elements, mine or my opponent can still move, and under the same restrictions that all players face now.

I won't have to worry about micromanaging the fuel gauges of every pilot in my fleet, gauges that no one can do anything with beyond sitting still and waiting for three days(holder) while the server wastes cycles passively regenerating it for us, i won't have to worry that they have more jump capable toons than me, and i won't have to worry about not being able to fight cuz jim fred and joe in their logi cruisers can't actually jump a gate any more cuz they spent their points just getting to the rally when i asked em to, after having spent all yesterday freighting in the hulls we're trying to fly for operations in this region.

again, and finally - i know full well what you're trying to say - but still your cases, your systems are ignoring the state of eve as a whole, ignoring the most important element of the game and that's the needs, wants and expectations of the people using it - all of them.

had the way of the PPP, a form that will only benefit those with greater pilot numbers, the exact opposite of what the system was proposed to do, you overlook the fact that the fewer pilots i have the fewer people i can call upon for a task - that means my freighter pilots, carrier pilots etc etc all suffer just so you can artificially restrict travel all because you're annoyed everyone can move the same way given proper investment of effort - you are trying to artificially crush the playing field simply to suit your own preference.

One time bump to fix forum.

- it won't, those occur anyway, the only impact PPP will have on these is logistics pilots (those that move stuff not those that rep stuff) can't fly those hauler toons into combat cuz they exert their effort setting the field up so everyone else can.

- yes, funnily enough, we invented a tool to make movement easier cuz the field we fought on covered a very large distance and such movement was considered useful - strange development that, develop technology to solve problems and relieve constraints.

it's not flawed it's fine - in terms of distance because that's what it's for - to travel long distance - there are draw backs to most ships that can do this, and those that can bridge have very limited range compared to those that can't - it's a fair mechanic like just about every other mechanic in eve, you fight to achieve that strength or you do without.


- I say this because that is the only impression any of your statements so far have given me, at no point have you looked back on your original arguments, or clarified ways in which the position you defend actually solves the claimed problem in an acceptable manner, merely continued to repeat the same cases with very little justification (that i could perceive)

the comment is not meant to discredit, it was however meant to spur you into retaliatory action, to give you cause to justify/answer for yourself and your actions (as i have seen very little satisfactory explanations in regards to your supportive reasoning, why you say what you do, what impact is has, why it'll do what you think it will - merely than simply making the statement) - it seems it was either a poor tool for the task or you simply don't place enough value in your stance to defend it any longer.

personally I want to find out why you think this system is as good as you claim it is - I can't see any just cause or improvement coming from this as all it achieves in use cases is the artificial choking of mobility, for mobility's sake - not because people could find it useful, but because the OP figured people could move too fast after spending the effort to obtain the tools that could.

this is very bad idea.... have you been ever traveling with caps? man insted of nerfing amount of global range, you are making hell out of travel itself.

I respectfully disagree with the complete premiss. EVE is about freedom not limitations. The one thing that keeps me coming back to EVE every day for the last 6 years, is that I am free to join forces with like minded individuals and using the game mechanics and banding together I can effect change in the game. The fact that there is a possibility of having a blue donut is that thousands came together and made that happen. How is that bad?

Your Colored map was nice but all that shows is that at that particular time, we were engaged in a galaxy wide war. That is not always the case. Your idea is pitiful and one that boxes and stifles free thought and expression. It has no place in EVE.