Crime & Punishment

Except they should never run out of people who dont use out of game resources before accepting invites.
Incidently its threads like this and Hed bots blog/ miner bumping.com that saved me from many "newbie" errors. Like staying in a corp with other players, accepting fleet invites and accepting duel requests. Not really an mmo without other people, but it sure is pretty to look at.

Eve-kill is your friend.

1. No, but outside of a corp it takes effort to be in a position to kill you and/or costs to do so. In a corp there are no repercussions and no limitations on where you can be killed.

2. No matter how much research you do, awoxing can still happen. It's a flaw in the corporation mechanics which forces people apart. Notice how fleeting with someone doesn't allow you to kill them. This is to enable people to fleet with each other without the worry or opening themselves up to being killed with ease. Corporation mechanics should be the same, to encourage people to group together. Instead, they force people apart. If you are in high sec, there is absolutely no benefit to being in a corp with someone over simply remaining in an NPC corp (or forcing solo corp if tax is an issue) and fleeting up with them. All you do is open yourself up to awox and give a single group to declare war on.

3. Awoxers are a minority compared to other groups of players, and people complain non-stop about the amount of people in NPC corps. Eventually, CCP may recognise why people stay in NPC corps rather than grouping together and put in changes to encourage that behavior. Since there's no way to directly raise that with them, and forum posting about it results in pages of trolling, the best way to protest is to stay in an NPC corp and contribute to the problem. Note that "making friends" and "joining a player run corp" do not have to go hand in hand. Just read the NPC corp chatter some time and you'll see that plenty of people socially interact and fleet up there.

Note that the overall goal I thin should be to encourage most people to leave NPC corps. The problem is without compounding the problem first, nothing will ever change.

I'm not trying to avoid combat or remain in high sec. If I were wanting to remain in high sec, you can be damn sure I wouldn't be joining a player run corp though. At most I'd join an alliance with a corp made up of just myself and people I know personally. There's simply no benefit that warrants the risk of being in a player corp in high sec.

Wow dude that really sucks, I have to apologize on part of my corp! If you would accept my corp invite I can reimburse you with a very nice Marauder fit from our corp hangar ok?

It's not risk aversion at all. It's exactly what you've put there. Risk vs reward. Most people will gain absolutely nothing by being part of a high sec corp.

Well that's good for you, but that's not the only experience people have had, and this thread is proof of that. The thing is, there's no real reason to allow corp member to kill each other and not let fleet members, they are contradictory ideals. Fleeting encourages people to group up. Corp awox mechanics encourage the opposite. Personally I'd prefer people to be encourage to move into a corp by giving them more benefits to do so, as that is generally how people become a part of the actual meta game.

That's a benefit for you, since you want to engage in high sec PvP. It's not a global benefit.

1. Wrong: There are no immediate repercussions for in-corp killing. When you get AWOXed, post it on the forums, let people know. There are social repercussion for such an activity. Many alliances simply boycott/deny players with a history of AWOXing and/or Corp theft. The more they do it, the more doors they close!




2.a) In general, AWOXers are looking for easy kills. They don't go to lengths to hide their actions, so a decent background will filter out 95% of the AWOXers in this game. The ability to attack a corp mate is NOT a flaw in the mechanic. That single mechanic means you must extend trust to your corp mates, and they must extend trust to you. This state, where both sides are vulnerable, is essential for building a meaningful relationship. With AWOXing, a basic level of trust is immediately extended between all corp mates, which lays the groundwork for most trust to follow. Remove the ability to AWOX, and corporation members have no vulnerabilities until you choose to grant meaningful roles, leaving members sheltered and safe. However, since there is not trust at the start, there is little room for people to prove themselves.

Let me put it another way, without AWOXing, you have a Parent-Child relationship, where you first cut construction paper for your child. Later you give them safety scissors so they can cut the paper themselves but not with any dangerous tools. Later you give them child scissors, which cuts paper but isn't sharp enough to cut anything else. And finally you give them Shears, where they can finally cut off fingers if they aren't careful. EvE is for adults, not kids!

Here, you invite that stranger at the coffee ship on a date. It may go well, it may not. You may be luring them into some trap to rob or harm them. They may be doing the same to you. At the end of the night though, you both may have had a satisfying night together, or you may have killed on another. Dating a stranger is relatively dangerous, so we're telling you to get some gossip on them before going alone to their home. If you can't handle this, then don't join an EvE corp.

2.b) There is little trust when joining a fleet with another. It is like grouping up to play tag on the playground. Sure, it leads to team play, perhaps akin to some sports team if perfecting your game, but it is very different than joining a corporation!

2.c) "If you are in high sec, there is absolutely no benefit to being in a corp with someone"??? Are you really that ignorant of corp benefits?
a.) Taxes collected by Corp.
b.) Corp bases where you can share assets via corp hangars.
c.) Corp standings to grant access to NPC services (jump clones and agents) you would otherwise not have access too.
d.) POS ownership, which is HUGE for highsec indy players, as it may grant immediate access to copy and ME research lines (as opposed to the 30+ days you must wait for NPC lines). Not to mention the improved research times.
e.) POCO ownership, should you desire.
f.) Corp mates to fleet up with, which can come to your aid in times of need, which can open new game play options you can't accomplish solo, etc.
and more....

I realize, you might consider these benefits small compared to the risks of wardecs and awoxing, but that's because your fear of loss is imprisoning you in naivety. This game is simply better when you from healthy bonds with other players, and the corporation is the basic structure for doing that.

This.
My Main's corp maintains a WH presence for only two reasons - And one of them is to have a relatively well-defended tower where corp members can build and research.

The other reason is...

We PI the hell out of our WH system. Also, we have a fine selection of HiSec POCOs to choose among.

Even though getting us all together in a fleet requires very tasty bait, it sometimes also happens - Usually when in defense of our Tower or POCOs, but sometimes to blap an interloper who is threatening our bottom line.

Here you are only talking about a single type of awox, the "join our awox corp" type. You have no way of knowing if a randomly joining individual has plans to blow you up. And social repercussion are nothing. I can go roll a new alt right now, he'll be ready to awox for profit in a week or so.

You must enter into the whole arrangement with a preset level of trust then, meaning you don't get to build trust, upon entry, you must already trust the others in your corp. If that's just the way EVE rolls, why are fleets not like that?

Why should fleets be any different? Why encourage interaction in a fleet, yet discourage it in a corp?


a) Make your own corp, tax free
b) Great, assets to steal too!
c) There's already a corp for pretty much any service you need. EACS do jump clones.
d) Nobody gets "immediate access" to industry lines, and again, you can simply make your own. You don't need other people to do that (and there are services to make you a corp).
e) See d.
f) There are a multitude of channels you can go to to fleet up with all types, safe in the knowledge that none of them will suddenly shoot you in the ass without getting blitzed by concord.

It's got absolutely nothing to do with a fear of loss. It's to do with there being no reason to force people to have to take a risk to join high sec corps just so a handful of people can make a career out of awoxing. I'm genuinely shocked when people complain to no end that people remain in NPC corps or form solo corps, when the reason this is done is clear.

So in your mind, the only people affected by awoxed are people joining corpsg gettin awoxed by the corp, or corp CEOs getting awoxed by members?
You can quite easily join a corp, passing all scrutiny, find a member with a semi-valuable ship and hold them for ransom. Freighters are usually the best. And thats the problem, you don't know the other people in your corp. Unless you are joining mates or have absolutely nothing to lose, what's the point? You may as well avoid 100% of the risk by simply not joining anyone else and instead finding a community in a chat channel or based out of a certain system and just fleet up that way.

How is any of that relevant to corp members being able to shoot each other in high sec?

The bottom line is fleets are great, they encourage cooperation. Corps encourage awox. So unless you get profound benefits from a particular corp there's no point joining one if high sec is your area of operation.

Anyone in corp may be AWOXed... be it the new recruit, the CEO, anyone. If someone joins your corp and attempts to ransom you, defend yourself! You have corp mates that can attack them, just like they can attack you. Better yet, defend yourself by limiting who joins the corp in the first place. Setup recruitment policies, where you do background checks and seek references. Set up an insurance policy (what do you think corp taxes are good for).

I fully admit that certain members of a corp will regularly be vulnerable. If 95% of your members are somewhere else in the universe, they may not be able to help you. If your corp is small, there may not be enough members online to cope with a well executed AWOX. And if your corp is bloating, it becomes impractical to know which corpmates can be trusted. These are corp management issues, which are regularly confronted and solved in game. The tools are there, you just need to utilize them.




Corps are about sharing assets, which very much encourages cooperation. Yes, sharing assets also opens your assets up to theft or attack, but so what. At the end of the day, because corp mates are allowed to shoot each other, you must extend trust to them, and they to you. This creates a solid foundation for building a relationship.

The bottom line: Corp aggression mechanics are here to stay, and you haven't posted a single reason to remove them beyond fear and apprehension over the loss of assets.