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Is Scamming Killing The Future Of Eve?
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Luh Windan
green fish hat bang bang
#21 - 2011-11-10 11:06:51 UTC
Big Bad Mofo wrote:



But thats the issue mate, alot of people dont find it amusing at all. Let say someone bought plex for a mothership
Whats that £300 roughly? thats pretty much someones money you are stealing, and alot of money to spend on a game. They aint gonna be too happy especially when they can do nothing about it. Even worse when CCP says oh well tough. Not really what you want to hear when you effectively had had £300 stolen is it?


perhaps you have hit the nail on the head there.

If you think about your game time in terms of real life money/plex etc then yes it's going to be a big deal and quite obviously some people do.

For others, like myself, I pay my subscription and my playtime is just an escape from the stresses and pressures of real life, if I mess up (and I do) then while its a pain in the you know what, I know that is because I took a risk. If I'm buying a big new boat I try to be able to afford at least two before buying one for instance.

I'm afraid I don't have an answer as to how to balance that - but i can see from what you say that quite clear for some people the score is: 'that's life live with it" and for others it's "that represents a considerable investment for me"

thekiller2002us
The J8sters
#22 - 2011-11-10 11:10:32 UTC
Hi i'm a university student studying sociology and i'm doing my project on samming in eve- I have gathered a lot of evidence to suggest that scamming is in fact damaging the future of eve and i can send you the results and evidence and i can send you this evidence and research in game- just send me 3bil for this extensive research

I'm with Brick on this one- make thouse carebearing b******s squeal..
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#23 - 2011-11-10 11:15:51 UTC
I dun have me a dilemma. I crave the gameplay of gosu pixiedust wonderhaven MMORPGs like a self-help book enthusiast craves the satisfying taste of savory White Castle sliders, but I'm also very fond of them science-fictions with the spaceboats and the laserbeams.

A banner ad on the website I buy my Kinah at mentioned this "EVE Onlines" thing, and I gave it a try, but the sociopathic tendencies exhibited by its player base, most likely consisting of autistic high schoolers and recently laid-off postal workers, doesn't sit right with my proper Christian sense of morality.

I think my best course of action is to inform the developers of their little oversight, so that they may scrub this game of its malevolent influences and reconstitute it as the wonderful source of wholesome family entertainment it was surely intended to be.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Sicex
#24 - 2011-11-10 11:19:24 UTC
So there isn't allowed to be any game like EVE on the market? MMOs simply are not allowed to allow scamming...

EVE is a niche game, for a niche market... the mechanics of the game alone point to the idea that we (the devs and the community) don't WANT the type of player that would spend money and buy super caps without experience and think they can simply quick-sale their way to the top. EVE doesn't need anymore of those than we already have.

Let EVE be special, please.
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2011-11-10 11:37:38 UTC
Big Bad Mofo wrote:
(...)
For example that newbiw whose took months, mining, mission and ratting to get that shiny new raven (bearing in mind he still cant really fly it) and along come some high sec gankers and poof its gone all the hard work gone. Back to square one. (...)

Pilots should learn from as young an age as possible:
1. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose
2. Don't put all your eggs in one basket
3. Don't get emotionally attached to ships

And EVE just wouldn't be the same if there wasn't that ever present threat that someone can shoot you, no matter where you are or what ship you're in.

As for scamming: a fool and his money are easily parted, don't trust anyone, etc.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#26 - 2011-11-10 11:37:51 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Not in any mechanical way, no.

A bit of education might be in order though, so people realise what kind of game they have chosen to play, and so they can take the required precautions.



This basically. Some of the greatest news stories about EVE involve scams of one sort or another. Whilst people who can't accept responsibility for their own mistakes and/or can't be bothered to read before clicking accept might be deterred, I am happy that EVE is not worse off for losing these people.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#27 - 2011-11-10 11:39:21 UTC
While I agree up to a point that new players should have more education in the realities of EvE I can't help but feel that anyone who starts playing this game and hasn't done a little research into it is asking for what ever happens to them.

I remember that it was the stories I read of what could happen that attracted me to this game. If you make EvE safer / easier in pursuit of a massively expanded player base you are not really doing those new players a favour but eroding the essential dark heart of the EvE experience and destroying the very thing that is the major appeal of this game.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2011-11-10 11:40:14 UTC
Do you have something against newbies? Don't tell people not to be trusting! If people stop being easy scam victims, then how are all those eager youngsters going to pay for converting their trial accounts into full subscriptions? We just started up a recruitment drive on Something Awful, and if suddenly everyone starts behaving responsibly we are going to have a lot of poor and starving newbies wondering why they were lied to when we promised them a game full of ample opportunities to live off of the sweat of someone else's work.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Hauling Hal
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2011-11-10 11:47:43 UTC
Scamming only becomes a problem if it starts to affect CCP's ability to keep the game profitable. Until then, I'm happy to double your ISK, sell you a faction Raven or rent you space in 0.0...
WhyTry1
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#30 - 2011-11-10 21:15:27 UTC
Hauling Hal wrote:
Scamming only becomes a problem if it starts to affect CCP's ability to keep the game profitable. Until then, I'm happy to double your ISK, sell you a faction Raven or rent you space in 0.0...



It seems the decline has already started then
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#31 - 2011-11-10 21:26:50 UTC
The only things allowing for successfull scams is the players own greed and stupidity. It's not the scammer who's 'bad', but the victim.

I don't see any reason why CCP should implement mechanics to save players from their own greed and stupidity.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#32 - 2011-11-10 22:04:33 UTC
I second the need for the tutorial to betray a player to teach players that this a harsh universe and trust is a rare and valuable commodity

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#33 - 2011-11-10 22:10:16 UTC
Scamming is made worse by the availability of completely untraceable alt characters that can have no consequences delivered upon their owners.

In the real world if you get scammed you at least have some opportunity to track that person down an exact compensation or vengeance. The person who did the scam may have used an alias but they still exist somewhere, there is a path at some point.

Not in EvE. You can scam, biomass the character, no possible way of tracing it.
Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us
#34 - 2011-11-10 22:22:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Fille Balle
Big Bad Mofo wrote:
Do we need to stop spamming? or at least have measures in place to protect players to some extent?


Yes, the spamming needs to end.


Ok, jokes aside. Part of the problem is, how are you going to stop scamming? What is a scam, and what is not? If I buy a shuttle priced at 8mil, was I just scammed? Or did I buy it because I needed a ship for transport and the only thing available in that system was an 8mil isk shuttle?

The question becomes, where do you draw the line? I mean, sure, flogging off a carbon as a charon could certainly be deemed as a scam. But the old Navy mega only 200mil isk (2b if you read the contract)... it's overpriced, sure. But it was a Navy mega, right?

My biggest gripe with scamming and scammers is the constant spamming of useless contracts. Oh, and I really hate the people who try to scam you with the direct trade thingy. That's so lame.

I think the best thing is to try and educate people. Put it in huge f-off letter in the tutorial: EVE HAZ FRIGGIN SCAMMING, READ TEH FRIGGIN COTRACT BEFORE ACCEPTING, kthnksbai. Make a mission that involves choosing one out of five contracts, and make sure one of them is a scam. If they fail the the test, remove all their isk from their walled and put massive letters on the screen reading: YOU ARE DUMB! TRY AGAIN! NEXT TIME IT'S GAME OVER PAL!

Give them back the cash, but make sure they've understood what that was all about. Maybe some sort of test. Like you're not allowed undock before you manage to complete the mission. And when they finally finish the mission, yet another set of letters:
TRUST NO ONE! NOT EVEN YO MAMA, OR YOURSELF! IN EVE, YOU AIN'T GOT NO FRIENDS.

That sort of thing might help people avoid getting scammed. For the record, I've never gotten scammed. There was this one time I thought I was gonna get scammed, but they were really nice pirates and took my isk and let me mission under their protection for three hours. Lucky me!

Stop the spamming, not the scamming!
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#35 - 2011-11-10 22:23:41 UTC
Not meaning to be your personal rain cloud, Sentient Blade, but in real life a lot of things that would be called "scams" by the average person are perfectly legitimate business practices tucked neatly away into the fine print of contracts no one ever bothers to read before signing; moreover, a person with a little bit of affluence, and thereby someone whom we can assume has the means to be internationally mobile, has very little to worry about with regards to being tracked down by some angry person even if that person manages to unerringly trace the source of his troubles to its actual originator. Scenes like the one in Saw where the insurance agent gets tracked down and tortured don't happen. In real life we hide behind corporations, organisations and other degrees of obfuscation to insulate us from the consequences of our actions in a manner not at all dissimilar from the actions taken by scammers in EVE Online to avoid future contact with previous victims. What do you think would happen if you found yourself on the losing end of a business deal? You wouldn't track down the slick lawyer or executive who just ruined your dreams and beat him to death (unless you're some kind of psychotic murderer), or anything like people say they want to do to people who scam them in EVE Online. You would take it, perhaps become depressed about it, and do nothing to the man, the team, the company, the corporation, or the conglomeration that just brought your world crashing down around you. And if you tried to do anything about it, then there are security guards, secretaries and policemen in your way to block physical and communicated violence towards them.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
ShipToaster
#36 - 2011-11-10 22:37:57 UTC
Does the htfu EVE of old still exist? Recently we seem to have moved toward a different vision of EVE where everything that made EVE unique has been getting removed.

I expect scamming to be removed or nerfed somehow.

.
Destru Kaneda
Arzad Police Department
#37 - 2011-11-10 22:41:13 UTC
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#38 - 2011-11-10 23:13:00 UTC
Dyner wrote:
The answer is Yes and No

Yes, scamming prevents the game from reaching it's Player Base potential.


no cause really BIG scams BRING ppl into the game.

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Diosas
Doomheim
#39 - 2011-11-10 23:50:20 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
Dyner wrote:
The answer is Yes and No

Yes, scamming prevents the game from reaching it's Player Base potential.


no cause really BIG scams BRING ppl into the game.



is there evidence of this? or just assumptions?
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2011-11-10 23:50:31 UTC
What does not kill you only makes your stronger.
(Except if it maims, blinds or otherwise disables your permanently in real life)

Fortunately, you cannot yet be maimed by an EVE scam.

As part of the future of EVE, I can say that scamming does not kill me or affect me in the slightest way as I have not and probably will not be scammed. Thank you for your time.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us