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'In Real LIfe I am KInd. In EVE I am a Psychopath'

First post First post First post
Author
Lady Areola Fappington
#261 - 2014-02-12 08:17:23 UTC
Why would any self respecting "sociopath" (that disorder actually doesn't exist, BTW) use EVE as an outlet anyway? EVE is just a video game, nothing matters in it, and it's all consensual. There's no thrill in it anywhere.

EVE shenanigans are all stereotype sociopath tropes that let people play-act at being the villain for awhile. A real sociopath would be much more likely to try getting at the person behind the keyboard to do some real hell. Stuff like stealing identities, destroying RL relationships, things that actually involve hurting and manipulating real people.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

Cassia Aetius
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#262 - 2014-02-12 08:42:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Cassia Aetius
Looking at history, wars, slaves, murder, torture, gladiator fights for entertainment, bull / dog fighting, whatever else evil you can think of.....

Humans are ******* psychos.

The only question here is if you are one in game too.
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#263 - 2014-02-12 09:00:23 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Galen Darksmith wrote:
If I went to a poker group and we had someone like this in the group, he'd probably just be ejected from the group. No one likes people like that around.


You ARE people like that. Don't you get it? Except that in addition to just generally being a douche, you also get to steal the pot, scatter all the cards on the floor, and we can't eject you from the table. Now, does it make sense why people would wish for you to get cancerous tumors growing in your head, squishing your brain until you were too ******** to log into EVE? They're not psychopaths. They're frustrated.
First, this little gem of your relentless stupidity and/or willingness to misrepresent:
The person ejected from the group in this example is the one wishing death threats on their bluffer. If someone was screaming and shouting and passive-aggressive threatening me (Or any other participant, of course) or wishing me to get AIDS or cancer because I won in a poker game by using deceptive behaviour, he wouldn't stay in that group.
Now, the next gem up is your sick **** fantasies. You need help, random rapist on the internet, you need help.

Next up, your claim that shooting a consenting miner equals choking someone:
Quote:
If the game of poker requires you to choke someone out at the table to win the hand, that's gaming. If the player just up and decides to choke someone out at the table to win the hand, that's cheating (and also assault and battery). It's an important distinction.
See, first of all you're equating damaging someone with not damaging someone.
I'm not sure if I should be afraid of your ethics, but in this case it's just another one of your strawmen. EVE is Real is a marketing slogan. It's not that shooting a Goon in a Battleship and his pod afterwards makes me a murderer of thousands, as well as a brutal warcriminal, it's only you who seems to argue that.
Next up, there are games that are actually about or include legal ways to physically damage each other: Boxing, Martial Arts, American Football, sports and games where fullbody contact is a part of it and where temporary physical damage is possible or included. And do you know what? Most people do not sue some boxer for winning a match, even if it hurt the other participant. He'd have to break the rules before that happens.
This analogy is to show you that consent matters when determining the morality of a given act. That's also the major distinction between **** and something fun and legal, in case you need to know.
How does this consent analogy apply to EVE, when I just explained how you are wrong about equating physical violence with lack of physical violence? Because of the given consent of everyone when they log in. Their login shows that they want to play a game with rules that permit, mechanics that assume and community that promotes player versus player in a lot of fields.
So like in the example with a boxer that loses a match, a miner that loses in a fight has already given consent to that outcome, as long as the rules were followed. The big difference here is that the miners suffers no harm except the one they decide - consciously or subconsciously - to bring onto themselves.
And at last, if someone is breaking the rules of EVE, you report them to CCP.

I'm not sure how to explain it in terms that you are willing to understand, but I think this is at the level where your ability to comprehend is no longer the limiting factor.
If you have any questions or non-strawman comments, I'm all ears.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#264 - 2014-02-12 09:36:12 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Why would any self respecting "sociopath" (that disorder actually doesn't exist, BTW) use EVE as an outlet anyway? EVE is just a video game, nothing matters in it, and it's all consensual. There's no thrill in it anywhere.

EVE shenanigans are all stereotype sociopath tropes that let people play-act at being the villain for awhile. A real sociopath would be much more likely to try getting at the person behind the keyboard to do some real hell. Stuff like stealing identities, destroying RL relationships, things that actually involve hurting and manipulating real people.


Actually, I used to date a girl that was a sociopath. She had no concept of how her words and actions affected other people. So she would act out in ways that were inconsistent with "normal" social interaction. For example:

Me: "My brother was shot and killed in Afghanistan."

Girl I was dating: "Really, was it in the face?"

This kind of response is something I would call sociopathic. I've not seen her for about four years and am better for it.

I think the question here is one of "conflict tolerance". Some people have a high tolerance for conflict. Others do not. When you push a person past their ability to tolerate conflict, they're going to lash out with heated words and vitriol; whether they're playing Eve, or poker, or checkers, or any other game. Many people in a real world scenario live by a code of "live and let live". No such code exists in Eve so behavior counter to "live and let live" is seen as "psychopathic".

To those who think the miner who shouts crap in local after being ganked is a psychopath: You pushed them past their acceptable level of conflict tolerance and are seeing the culmination of your actions manifested there. Too often, I think that this raging in local is treasured by the gankers too much. It's one thing to engage in this activity for profit. That I can understand. "Tears" on the other hand - that's just a level of cruelty and malice that I don't get and maybe someone else can explain it to me.

To the rest who would rather log in and just be left the hell alone to do your thing: You are voluntarily playing a game where there is no "live and let live" code. Be cognizant of your level of conflict tolerance. Constantly ask yourself, "what am I going to do if i get ganked here?". And if you do get ganked think very carefully about how you react to it. My suggestion is to get your pod in a station immediately and log off, go into a room by yourself and scream at the top of your lungs, go for a run, work the heavy bag a bit, and burn off that frustration and anger in a more positive way that screaming all kinds of stupid crap in local, sending a tearful e-mail to the ganker, or any such thing. If the objective of a gank is tears and not profit, do you really want to be the guy giving the gankers what they want?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#265 - 2014-02-12 09:58:38 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Actually, I used to date a girl that was a sociopath. She had no concept of how her words and actions affected other people. So she would act out in ways that were inconsistent with "normal" social interaction. For example:

Me: "My brother was shot and killed in Afghanistan."

Girl I was dating: "Really, was it in the face?"

This kind of response is something I would call sociopathic. I've not seen her for about four years and am better for it.
I'm going to be slightly pendantic and say:
Actually, there is no chance she was a sociopath. Sociopathy is not a diagnosis in use, so she wasn't.
If she did as you describe and was diagnosed for it, she may have been diagnosed with ASPD.

Quote:
To those who think the miner who shouts crap in local after being ganked is a psychopath:
I don't think those claims are real. Personally I do it to try and prove a point.
Or simply show how a completely unfounded and bull excrements argument can go both ways.

And in any case, if someone thinks that shouting crap in local is sign of psychopathy, then that someone is wrong just as Mayhaw Morgan is. Crap in local is likely to be a sign of not understanding the game (Or specific game mechanics), trying to rationalise away a loss, or simply distress over losing something that has taken hours of work to build. None of which requires any psychopath anywhere.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#266 - 2014-02-12 10:01:30 UTC
Remove immortality, get kind again. ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#267 - 2014-02-12 10:28:30 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

I Riven I
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#268 - 2014-02-12 10:34:10 UTC
I have a better question:

Who the **** cares?


Just be who you wanna be in EvE, and be who you wanna be IRL.

What does it matter if one connects to the other or not? Whats your point? where do you wanna get? Despite the fact that its not everyone the same, to some this connection exists, to others its just a fantasy and doesnt exist,.. its just a game.

So your whats the point of discussing about this, if the answer is not a concrete answer and it changes from person to person??

Are you wasting your time and energy thinking about useless things with no purpose? Yes you are.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#269 - 2014-02-12 10:39:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimmi Chan
I Riven I wrote:
Are you wasting your time and energy thinking about useless things with no purpose?


Yes.

ED: Did you know that adult male bears will eat bear cubs? It's one of the reasons that adult female bears have a reputation for being extremely fierce. Those females will fight to the death and generally the males know this. Is the adult male bear a psychopath? Or is he just hungry and that bear cub looks like a tasty snack?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#270 - 2014-02-12 10:49:03 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Sounds more like aspergers to me.


Maybe.

I think the whole talk about sociopathy and psychopathy are general laymen terms and only people academically trained in the fields of psychology and not internet spaceship gamers are truly qualified to further diagnose the nuance of whatever disorder she may or may not have had.

From my viewpoint, she was just a crazy ***** regardless of what Wikipedia article people want to link to.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#271 - 2014-02-12 11:01:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Aralyn Cormallen
Alphea Abbra wrote:
It's not that shooting a Goon in a Battleship and his pod afterwards makes me a murderer of thousands, as well as a brutal warcriminal


But it does make you mean, after all, we only want to be loved Sad

EDIT: Unless of course you are shooting us, because you love us, and want to play with us, in that case you're a very nice person, and I'll play with you anytime Big smile
flakeys
Doomheim
#272 - 2014-02-12 11:02:11 UTC
djentropy Ovaert wrote:
Veronica Felix wrote:

'They warned that how gamers represent themselves in the virtual world of video games may affect how they behave toward others in the real world.[/i][/b]'


Right. Even since Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas - I find myself driving down the road and just want to run over every single person wearing purple that I see.

This whole article reads like something that Jack Thompson helped pay for.

http://tinyurl.com/m5orbp

Also LOL @ the "Study" consisting of 194 undergraduates who played a game for FIVE MINUTES. With no control group. This is far from a "study" :P

(Edit: replaced link to Wikipedia page Jack Thompson (Activist) with a tinyURL linking to the same page, as the EVE forums seem unable to link to a url that includes a "(" in it)



Ever since playing carmageddon i got a bodiecounter in my car ... it's the most awsome cartweak there is .

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

Freedom Munition
Perkone
Caldari State
#273 - 2014-02-12 11:22:45 UTC
People are talking about being evil as if its a bad thing, without evil people in games you'd all be mining. You must understand that without chaos, we'd be complete slaves to order, and without order we'd be extinct. You need both, the universe needs both.

That is why today I plan to bomb everyone who turned against me, my enemies will know fear, they will see what chaos is about.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#274 - 2014-02-12 11:30:48 UTC
Chribba wrote:
I might let myself be influenced a bit by other things as well though, not just focusing on the violence part. More to general behavior as well, perhaps sliding away from "gaming" and more entering online behavior since there is a BIG part of the population, that act like assholes just for the fact that there's a screen protecting them from getting punched in the face for abusing others.

I think that sort of behavior is also affected by games, just like you said - if I cry - you WILL make fun of me, I see the point of it, and I agree that to an extent people do that in real life as well, but that screen protecting people makes it so much easier to abuse someone, and abuse be it in an online environment still do affect most, but that might be a whole other discussion and I don't want to derail this from the topic at hand.

/c

I actually agree with this even considering my ingame affiliations. The way I see it is that establishing the parameters of the game are important before playing. To me and many griefers out there, eve extends far beyond the actual mechanics of moving my ship into chat channels and even the forums and teamspeak. This does not give us the right to insult or hurt people outside of game, and defining that line is very important, but very difficult due to the social nature of eve.

One of he biggest dangers of online media in my view is that this line is extremely blurred. In most games it is understood that you are role playing, and attacking someone is primarily attacking their ingame actions or persona. In social media the line is blurred. One person may consider themselves completely anonymous, and another person they are interacting with will make their real life available completely online. the "anonymous" person will be willing to take actions that they never would if it were tied to a real reputation, and those actions can seriously hurt the other person who treats the internet as an extension of their life.

This is why while I may lie through my teeth ingame, and play as a scum of the earth villian or justified upholder of the Code on different days, I will never intentionally hurt someone with my trolling. Taking all of their assets and blowing up the ones I can't steal is part of the game, intentionally insulting them and making them feel bad about themselves is not.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!

Argyle Jones
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#275 - 2014-02-12 11:34:25 UTC
djentropy Ovaert wrote:
Veronica Felix wrote:

'They warned that how gamers represent themselves in the virtual world of video games may affect how they behave toward others in the real world.[/i][/b]'


Right. Even since Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas - I find myself driving down the road and just want to run over every single person wearing purple that I see.)


You're mixing things up here. There's a difference between playing the game and the interactions you have with other people online. Blowing up aliens in space invaders or running people over in GTA is different from say opening a convo with someone you just suicide ganked in empire to gloat about your kill and tell him how noob he is.

If you act like a total douche towards other people as soon as you're behind the anonymity of your computer screen, then I don't think it's far fetched that you'd also be a bit of a douche in real life.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#276 - 2014-02-12 12:49:29 UTC
Veronica Felix wrote:
We often see people in EVE who defensively claim to be good, decent folk in real life, yet play vicious psychotics in EVE. But can they really separate the two? Does one's EVE persona reflect who and what people are in real life despite all their denials?

A new study claims that playing the villain makes you a bad person in real life:

'Gamers that adopted villainous Voldemort as an avatar, were more likely to dish out a punishment in the experiment .

'University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign researchers found that people who played games as a heroic character were more likely to reward others.

'They warned that how gamers represent themselves in the virtual world of video games may affect how they behave toward others in the real world.
'


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2555752/Playing-villain-video-games-makes-MEAN-Avatar-role-play-replicated-real-world-claims-study.html#ixzz2svavZ1lj


I want a job where I can spend other people's money playing video games and the most concrete answer my "study" needs to come back with is "this may happen."

Roll


"Maybe this is true, maybe not. We're not sure, but we found some evidence, and boy does some of it fit the model."

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Careby
#277 - 2014-02-12 19:44:33 UTC
Anyone who thinks there is a difference between games and real life is taking real life way too seriously.

Kristalll
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#278 - 2014-02-12 19:56:01 UTC
In EVE I gank people for their own good, and awox for fun and profit. I also am CEO of a corporation and would give everything for my members and love helping out blues. For some reason people call me a psychopath and anti-social in game. Most of them are miners who have talked to a whole 3 people before I showed up to kill them, so take that with a grain of salt.

In real life I'm a Marine who does the job because I want to help people, and I'm also a registered EMT for that same reason.


What does this make me?

“Die trying” is the proudest human thing.

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#279 - 2014-02-12 20:12:39 UTC
Kristalll wrote:
In EVE I gank people for their own good, and awox for fun and profit. I also am CEO of a corporation and would give everything for my members and love helping out blues. For some reason people call me a psychopath and anti-social in game. Most of them are miners who have talked to a whole 3 people before I showed up to kill them, so take that with a grain of salt.

In real life I'm a Marine who does the job because I want to help people, and I'm also a registered EMT for that same reason.


What does this make me?


The same thing it makes you out of game: a person dependent on (navy) ships to get anywhere.

-signed, the gandson of a retired USN MCPO who loved to talk trash to marines, especially 2 of his own sons lol

Big smile


Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#280 - 2014-02-12 21:04:03 UTC
Veronica Felix wrote:
We often see people in EVE who defensively claim to be good, decent folk in real life, yet play vicious psychotics in EVE. But can they really separate the two? Does one's EVE persona reflect who and what people are in real life despite all their denials?

A new study claims that playing the villain makes you a bad person in real life:

'Gamers that adopted villainous Voldemort as an avatar, were more likely to dish out a punishment in the experiment .

'University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign researchers found that people who played games as a heroic character were more likely to reward others.

'They warned that how gamers represent themselves in the virtual world of video games may affect how they behave toward others in the real world.
'


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2555752/Playing-villain-video-games-makes-MEAN-Avatar-role-play-replicated-real-world-claims-study.html#ixzz2svavZ1lj


it does not matter if you are an ******* in a game or in real life, you are an ass thats for sure...