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Jita locked out again.... this is getting worst.

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#81 - 2014-02-10 18:36:50 UTC
Altrue wrote:
Current Eve server hardware is probably one of the best, if not the best, hardware in the whole gaming industry.

Also, just like in-game battles, if you increased the server cap of Jita it would just be a matter of time before we reach that cap again. Maybe less quickly than for eve battles but still.

So? In that time at least Jita would be less frustrating. And it would give time for CCP to keep improving things.

"A thief was brought before the king. 'For crimes against the kingdom I sentence you to death!'
'Wait!' said the thief. 'Give me a year and I will teach your horse to talk.' The King agrees. 'One year, then either the horse talks or you die.'
As he was being led away a guard asks the thief. 'Why did you do that? You cannot teach a horse to talk'. 'No, but a year is a long time. Many things can happen. The King could die, I could die, or perhaps the horse will learn to talk'"

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Frozen fanfiction
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#82 - 2014-02-10 19:51:32 UTC  |  Edited by: DaReaper
Samoth Egnoled wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
Jove Death wrote:
So theres no way the node can be overloaded permanently to like 4000 chars?

Being a bit thick here but what is the limit on one system?
There is no hard limit, a node will simply have a hard time keeping up with processing as the number of pilots grows and as they do more things.


So with the current size of battles that are happening in 0.0 where you have to implement Tidi to make it playable at all, and the fact that Jita is frequently being capped to save the node dying. Would you conclude that it is logical to assume that the current hardware that Eve is run on is insufficient for it's intended purpose going forward?


As been said before, the biggest limiting factor to eve right now is the old code that was designed for single core units, and is not very well suited to be scaleable. Back when eve was made the big things was more GHZ. Then a few years later, intel dropped the core two duo/dual core processor, so the trend switched from MORE GHZ to MORE CORES. If you have code, that's can't scale across cores very easily then it won't matter how many cores you have, it still won't efficiently use them.

I used this analogy before, TQ is like the smoothest, flattest, more frictonless and aero dynamic road you can get. The code is a pinto. You are trying to drive a pinto down this perfect raod and expect it to go like a farari. It can't, cause its a ******* pinto.

So they seem to be slowly fixing old code, like the crime watch, bounty and other fixes. With things like brain in the box in the works, and other fixes we should see a huge improvement. EvE REALLY needs a rewrite in areas that can not be changed over easily. Then would make a huge improvement. But there is still no other game out there that can event remotely handle 2k+ people in one system doing things. at one time jita had I think 5k in it and was running decently, but that was ages ago and I could be wrong.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#83 - 2014-02-10 20:29:45 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Samoth Egnoled wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
Jove Death wrote:
So theres no way the node can be overloaded permanently to like 4000 chars?

Being a bit thick here but what is the limit on one system?
There is no hard limit, a node will simply have a hard time keeping up with processing as the number of pilots grows and as they do more things.
So with the current size of battles that are happening in 0.0 where you have to implement Tidi to make it playable at all, and the fact that Jita is frequently being capped to save the node dying. Would you conclude that it is logical to assume that the current hardware that Eve is run on is insufficient for it's intended purpose going forward?
As been said before, the biggest limiting factor to eve right now is the old code that was designed for single core units, and is not very well suited to be scaleable. Back when eve was made the big things was more GHZ. Then a few years later, intel dropped the core two duo/dual core processor, so the trend switched from MORE GHZ to MORE CORES. If you have code, that's can't scale across cores very easily then it won't matter how many cores you have, it still won't efficiently use them.

I used this analogy before, TQ is like the smoothest, flattest, more frictonless and aero dynamic road you can get. The code is a pinto. You are trying to drive a pinto down this perfect raod and expect it to go like a farari. It can't, cause its a ******* pinto.

So they seem to be slowly fixing old code, like the crime watch, bounty and other fixes. With things like brain in the box in the works, and other fixes we should see a huge improvement. EvE REALLY needs a rewrite in areas that can not be changed over easily. Then would make a huge improvement. But there is still no other game out there that can event remotely handle 2k+ people in one system doing things. at one time jita had I think 5k in it and was running decently, but that was ages ago and I could be wrong.
That's pretty much it. In terms of hardware we look at the balance between high CPU clock frequency and high memory bus bandwidth and then work on the legacy systems that need to be improved and/or multi-threaded.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Flashy 'Red' Bee
Doomheim
#84 - 2014-02-10 20:39:48 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
That's pretty much it. In terms of hardware we look at the balance between high CPU clock frequency and high memory bus bandwidth and then work on the legacy systems that need to be improved and/or multi-threaded.
Does a cpu compress data that's getting shared in between nodes, to reduce bandwith? I'm asking if you're trading cpu cycles for bandwith. I imagine that even if the eve server software doesn't run multithreaded, there are ways to relay the data to different cores and having them compress them before sending.

I'm just asking. I realize that you have tons of gigabits travelling around and so I figure that even one byte less in every data package is a win already.


Thank you!
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#85 - 2014-02-10 20:42:29 UTC
I suspect this is nothing more than an AFK cloaking thread...
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#86 - 2014-02-10 20:52:39 UTC
BrundleMeth wrote:
I suspect this is nothing more than an AFK cloaking thread...

Be it in Jita or elsewhere, present a player with a popup every 15 minutes of mouse movement inactivity asking "Remain logged in? Y/N", where not responding within 1 minute results in an auto-logoff. They don't have to do anything, just move their mouse once every 15 minutes to remain un-prompted.

Don't just do it for Jita, AFK cloakers, server load or for AFK war targets....do it for the children.

Would you like to know more?
Nuela
WoT Misfits
#87 - 2014-02-10 21:09:36 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Irishdab Cadelanne wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
I have no problems with Jita.

You know why?

BECAUSE I STAY THE **** AWAY FROM THAT CESSPIT!

You might try doing the same. For your sanity and ours.

Mr Epeen Cool



I do stay away most of the time but it is a pain in the ass that I can't go into a system cause of bot spammers.


First off, there is nothing I've seen that said the population issue is due to bot spammers. I would venture to guess they are actually a small percentage of the thousands of players in Jita at any given time.

Second, It's not CCP's problem. CCP didn't make Jita the #1 trade hub in the universe, players did.

Don't like it? Speak with your isk. Go spend it at one of the other trade hubs.


If you start blocking spammers in Jita, you quickly diminish them to near nothing with just a handful of blocks...like 15.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#88 - 2014-02-10 21:13:13 UTC
Irishdab Cadelanne wrote:

Since it was locked I could not add my constructive comment about kicking out the bot spam.
'Cause NO ONE has ever suggested kicking the spammers from Jita Local. Roll
Steve-O's Ass
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2014-02-10 21:40:39 UTC
Irishdab Cadelanne wrote:
Instead of locking out jita to players why not go in an kick out players that are spaming local all the time. This would lower server load and allow the people that pay for this game the access we want.

I would not have any issues with the spam if the server could handle the load but it clearly can't. This effects the game play for other users and in my view is not fair to us that want to trade.

I know Jita is a high volume system and it is run on it's own sever. But it's getting to the point where you need to decide.

- kick spamers out

or

- Give Jita a second server till the spamers fill it up as well.


Kicking the twenty people that spam will do nothing.
There is no reason for you to be in Jita so stop going there.
How are people this stupid?
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#90 - 2014-02-10 22:19:00 UTC
Dior Rellik wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
Spammers in Jita local don't contribute to the load that much since chat is on its own nodes. The load in Jita primarily stems from the traffic to and from the system, i.e., the transport, pilots jumping in and out of the system and docking/undocking. A fair amount of processing goes into delivering the market transactions (but the market itself is on another node). Then there is always some pew-pew to process.

Jita is by far the largest market hub in EVE but we cap it at 2175 pilots. Jita has a dedicated node to itself, one of the fleet fight nodes. Next are Amarr, Dodixie, and Rens. We don't cap them but dedicate Amarr on regular hardware.

Top stations are:

Jita IV - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant
Amarr VIII (Oris) - Emperor Family Academy
Dodixie IX - Moon 20 - Federation Navy Assembly Plant
Rens VI - Moon 8 - Brutor Tribe Treasury



Just by being in the system they are adding to load. Unless of course you are denying player count in system has any impact at all.... Just kick them the hell out and give Jita a channel that can be accessed anywhere like other channels. No matter what you say, the amount of spammers is ridiculous and people need to get in and out trade.

or

allow us to buy / sell in adjacent systems and use NPC transporters to move the orders in and out of the system.

Something Like

Right click - Buy item X
Select option to request item be delivered to your station/stystem (extra isk charge on top)
complete purchase
After 30 seconds, the item appears in your inventory with a notification that NPC X corp has delivered your items. This can only be done in the systems adjacent to the 4 main hub systems.



I like how you know more about how eve works than the people running it.

arrogant ****...

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#91 - 2014-02-10 22:34:49 UTC
Flashy 'Red' Bee wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
That's pretty much it. In terms of hardware we look at the balance between high CPU clock frequency and high memory bus bandwidth and then work on the legacy systems that need to be improved and/or multi-threaded.
Does a cpu compress data that's getting shared in between nodes, to reduce bandwith? I'm asking if you're trading cpu cycles for bandwith. I imagine that even if the eve server software doesn't run multithreaded, there are ways to relay the data to different cores and having them compress them before sending.

I'm just asking. I realize that you have tons of gigabits travelling around and so I figure that even one byte less in every data package is a win already.
Yes and no, we don't spend much time compressing data when sending to other nodes. When I was mentioning memory bus bandwidth then Python benefits greatly from the CPU being able to fetch data from memory very quickly. There is a balance since higher clock frequency helps but at a certain point the CPU starts idling while waiting for data to be delivered.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#92 - 2014-02-11 01:15:33 UTC
Click.
Enter.

Click.
Enter.

Click.
Enter.

Click.
JUMP!

It isn't rocket science.. erm...
Irishdab Cadelanne
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2014-02-11 02:11:39 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
BrundleMeth wrote:
I suspect this is nothing more than an AFK cloaking thread...

Be it in Jita or elsewhere, present a player with a popup every 15 minutes of mouse movement inactivity asking "Remain logged in? Y/N", where not responding within 1 minute results in an auto-logoff. They don't have to do anything, just move their mouse once every 15 minutes to remain un-prompted.

Don't just do it for Jita, AFK cloakers, server load or for AFK war targets....do it for the children.


That would be a good idea but lets face it I'm sure it would be only a matter of time till people would start using bots to get around this feature.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#94 - 2014-02-11 02:36:37 UTC
Jita? Someone should burn that place to the ground.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#95 - 2014-02-11 03:50:42 UTC
Just fly to VFK and Trade there... I hear they buy everything
Your Dad Naked
Doomheim
#96 - 2014-02-11 04:20:06 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Repetitive thread is repetitive.

ED: Adding relevancy.

Quote:
16. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.

As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread.


Quote:
25. Re-opening locked topics is prohibited.

Recreating or re-opening a thread that has been closed by a moderator is prohibited. Threads that have been closed by a moderator have been closed for the benefit of the community. Re-opening a locked thread will result in its removal.

What?

I've never seen this thread.

+1 I like the idea.
Your Dad Naked
Doomheim
#97 - 2014-02-11 04:23:42 UTC
Steve-O's Ass wrote:
Irishdab Cadelanne wrote:
Instead of locking out jita to players why not go in an kick out players that are spaming local all the time. This would lower server load and allow the people that pay for this game the access we want.

I would not have any issues with the spam if the server could handle the load but it clearly can't. This effects the game play for other users and in my view is not fair to us that want to trade.

I know Jita is a high volume system and it is run on it's own sever. But it's getting to the point where you need to decide.

- kick spamers out

or

- Give Jita a second server till the spamers fill it up as well.


Kicking the twenty people that spam will do nothing.
There is no reason for you to be in Jita so stop going there.
How are people this stupid?

You're a troll I hope. If not... eeek Straight
Ai Shun
#98 - 2014-02-11 04:34:02 UTC
Dior Rellik wrote:
allow us to buy / sell in adjacent systems and use NPC transporters to move the orders in and out of the system.


So train your remote buy/sell skills and engage one of Push Industries or the Frog series of companies to assist you with your hauling needs. There is a whole player economy out there waiting for you to take part in it.

Sandbox, go forth and play in it. You don't need the devs to help you with this one.
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#99 - 2014-02-11 07:58:25 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Hesod Adee wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
Jita is by far the largest market hub in EVE but we cap it at 2175 pilots

Why 2175 ?

Obviously your answer will be something like "experience shows that if we cap at 2175 then x won't happen", but I'm curious what the x is.
x = Time Dilation will be at 100% most of the time, stay between 80-100% nearly all of the time, and only very rarely go below 80%.


Why not run a cap based on the TiDi factor instead or a fixed number of pilots ?

One thing someone at CCP has mentioned before is how they have to change the population cap when expansions come out, because the percentage of docked players in Jita changes for a brief period after an expansion comes out. A TiDi based lock on the gate would automatically adjust to that and to any server side improvements.
Treborr MintingtonJr
S.N.O.T
S.N.O.T.
#100 - 2014-02-11 09:00:00 UTC
I love it when there are loads of frieghters stuck waiting to go in and I come along in my frigate and go through the gate first time. \o/