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Jita locked out again.... this is getting worst.

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Mario Putzo
#301 - 2014-02-24 20:32:03 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Quote:
Just go someplace else that will fix the problem!
Indeed it will. Good to see you're finally learning.


Sorry but not empty quoting here.


Doesn't fix the problem though. I can go somewhere else, and someone will take my place. The problem doesn't change if we all go someplace else. If Amarr suddenly became the #1 place to be, they would just cap Amarr, or Dodixie, or Rens, or any other system.

Asking people to go use other systems doesn't fix the problem. It doesn't even remedy it. Fixing the problem is making it so there doesn't need to be a cap in the first place. Which is something that CCP should be doing.

Its the same thing with TIDI. Tidi doesn't fix anything, it just allowed CCP to kick the can down the road a couple years. Instead of 1K people in a system before the node blows up we get 4K people in system. That isn't a fix, it is a remedy.

Just like the drone assist change. We going to lower drones to 50 max per assist. Still doesn't change the fact that there going to be 5+*X ships on grid shitting the servers up.

Fix problems CCP, kicking them down the road isn't good design, it is lazy.
Ai Shun
#302 - 2014-02-24 20:36:23 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Doesn't fix the problem though. I can go somewhere else, and someone will take my place.


Yeah, but then they can come to the forums, create a new thread and we can go through all of this again. What fun!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#303 - 2014-02-24 20:38:48 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Doesn't fix the problem though. I can go somewhere else, and someone will take my place. The problem doesn't change if we all go someplace else. If Amarr suddenly became the #1 place to be, they would just cap Amarr, or Dodixie, or Rens, or any other system.
If everyone went someplace else, the problem would go away — the only ones who had to enter the hubs (including Jita) are the couriers, while everyone else sits in the surrounding systems. A single courier could easily alleviate the load of 10 people trying to do it alone.

Quote:
Its the same thing with TIDI. Tidi doesn't fix anything
Blatantly false. Are you really expecting people to take you seriously when you spout such obvious and outrageous lies?

Quote:
Just like the drone assist change. We going to lower drones to 50 max per assist. Still doesn't change the fact that there going to be 5+*X ships on grid shitting the servers up.
It fixes the problem of drones being the be-all end-all answer to high-latency coordination of fire.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#304 - 2014-02-24 20:56:45 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Quote:
Just go someplace else that will fix the problem!
Indeed it will. Good to see you're finally learning.


Sorry but not empty quoting here.


Doesn't fix the problem though. I can go somewhere else, and someone will take my place. The problem doesn't change if we all go someplace else. If Amarr suddenly became the #1 place to be, they would just cap Amarr, or Dodixie, or Rens, or any other system.

Asking people to go use other systems doesn't fix the problem. It doesn't even remedy it. Fixing the problem is making it so there doesn't need to be a cap in the first place. Which is something that CCP should be doing.

Its the same thing with TIDI. Tidi doesn't fix anything, it just allowed CCP to kick the can down the road a couple years. Instead of 1K people in a system before the node blows up we get 4K people in system. That isn't a fix, it is a remedy.

Just like the drone assist change. We going to lower drones to 50 max per assist. Still doesn't change the fact that there going to be 5+*X ships on grid shitting the servers up.

Fix problems CCP, kicking them down the road isn't good design, it is lazy.


So Dave Stark gave some advice on one of these threads and I am going to use that advice again.

A magic mailbox is not a suitable solution to this perceived problem. Got anything else?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#305 - 2014-02-24 21:14:49 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
New record! 70 tries needed to log into Jita.


Doing it wrong.

log in perimeter, jump in noob ship, warp to jita gate, set dest to jita, autopilot, go afk, come back, be in Jita.

I have this bad habit of having my Jita alt sitting in a freighter. I use that freighter. Alot. Its needed for what I'm doing in Jita.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#306 - 2014-02-24 23:46:59 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
IIshira wrote:
The RL comparison sounds great but Eve is a game and not RL. If it was RL CONCORD would take action against those that scooped the loot of a suicide gank. You think the cops are just going to watch my buddy unload the cash from an armored car after I attacked it? LOL


Bottom line is people want to be able to play whatever game their playing. If it's an MMO and the servers can't handle the load this is never a good thing. Does it happen?... Of course! Eve isn't exclusive to this. Should CCP try to fix it... definitely!


CCP should fix what exactly?

In the remote possibly you're not trolling I'll entertain you...

Upgrade their hardware to handle more players. Yes many MMO's suffer lag and other issues with the main areas but these are workable issues.


Other MMOs are not single shard.
There is no better hardware and if there were no one would be able to afford it outside of large military and government agencies.
AND even if they did upgrade the players would just pack more people into the system and we would be right back here again when it reached it's limit at 4350 people and the gates are locked again.

Do you have a more sustainable suggestion? Or is, "just throw more hardware, money, and infrastructure at it" all that you have?


Wait the first thing you said is "There is no better hardware"... So no hardware other than some top secret computer only owned by the government can handle more than 2700 players in Jita... Yea somehow I doubt this is correct.P

You said even if they did more would just get into Jita... Yea maybe but there is a limit where all the people that wanted to go to Jita would be in... It's not like all the sudden everyone will want to go there when they hear it was upgraded. By your logic we could limit Jita local to 500 and say if you make it 600 it will still have traffic holdups.... You must work for the Texas Department of Transportation Lol

And it's not , "just throw more hardware, money, and infrastructure at it".... If you have 500 players of a game one type of setup might work but if you have a million you need a different setup. It's not throwing more money at it but rather expanding the game to allow more players. I really can't see a downside to this.

Now when it comes to the cost of course CCP has to determine is spending X amount of money worth fixing Jita when they could spend that money elsewhere to fix something else. That's CCP's business decision and only they would know all the factors to determine if this upgrade is worth it.

As many posted I suspect this thread will get locked because due to the nature of Eve players they like to troll and this thread will become a huge troll fest once all the pros and cons are discussed and there is really nothing else to add.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#307 - 2014-02-24 23:47:57 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:

Ya no it hasn't. It is impossible for me to sit in New Caldari, buy an item from Jita, and have it show up in my inventory in New Caldari.

Unless I personally jump into Jita and get it and bring it back.
Or have someone else go into Jita and get it and bring it back.

If the issue is session changes, then adding more session changes doesn't fix the issue...hell it doesn't even remedy the issue.

It is pure laziness and poor game design. It is a simple ******* fix, and doesn't impact any aspect of the game whatsoever....aside from removing "fish in a barrel" Saturday/Sunday afternoons for Gankers.

"Hey Guys! We have to close Jita every single weekend for nearly a year now, so instead of working on fixing this we just want you to go somewhere else Thanks CCP Lazzycunt."


No fantasy-mmo-style magic mailboxes plz. I'd rather see an additional 0.5% Jita sales tax. Also, that derogatory language is pretty f-ing unwarranted.

Theres nothing magical about auto-delivery. Happens every day in RL. You buy stuff and its delivered, fancy that.... crazy magic home deliverers!

Sheesh.

Its a hell of a lot better than magically teleporting your ships and all its goods to a system of your choice. When's the last time you got out of bed, only to have your house tell you that you and your car would be magically transferred to the house next door. Now THAT is true magic.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Ai Shun
#308 - 2014-02-24 23:50:44 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Wait the first thing you said is "There is no better hardware"... So no hardware other than some top secret computer only owned by the government can handle more than 2700 players in Jita... Yea somehow I doubt this is correct.P


You haven't read CCP Explorer's posts yet, have you?

It explains why the current software architecture is big stumbling block, not the hardware. Changing the core software underpinning EVE? Well, I'd wager that's a large task but it is also one that their devblogs suggest they are working on by moving systems from old tech to new tech.

It's worth reading what the devs write.
Salvos Rhoska
#309 - 2014-02-25 00:07:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Its a hell of a lot better than magically teleporting your ships and all its goods to a system of your choice. When's the last time you got out of bed, only to have your house tell you that you and your car would be magically transferred to the house next door. Now THAT is true magic.


Ok, then the fix you require is to reduce Jita capacity even further, to where this no longer happens.

Happy?

Consider it a gratuity, courtesy of the house at Jita, that they transport your vessel, free of charge, to a neighbouring system instead of simply of dumping it out of the holds to drift in space. This is done so that other Capsuleers can also conduct their business at the already overworked Jita premises. Kindly next time you do business here, consider other Capsuleers, and dont leave your inactive and unoccupied ship clogging up a slot that another active and present Capsuleer could make use of.

Jita has a maximum capacity. It is an INGAME maximum restriction enforced and set by the Jita Authorities.

They cant service more ships than that in their system, and frankly, I wouldnt want 2.5k potentially dangerous Capsuleers in my systems either. Hence, gates are closed to ensure continuity and qualti of service.. Furthermore, its a security risk, as well as straining the systems infrastructure to cope with all the Capsuleers who have decided it is their personal playground.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Mario Putzo
#310 - 2014-02-25 00:22:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Kimmi Chan wrote:

A magic mailbox is not a suitable solution to this perceived problem. Got anything else?


Except it isn't a magic mail-box. Its NPC delivery.

You think the Caldari Empire would say..."Don't worry about it guys just go to Dodoxie we don't want your ISK flooding up our capitalist enterprise give it to the Gallente instead!"

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Its a hell of a lot better than magically teleporting your ships and all its goods to a system of your choice. When's the last time you got out of bed, only to have your house tell you that you and your car would be magically transferred to the house next door. Now THAT is true magic.


Jita has a maximum capacity. It is an INGAME maximum restriction enforced and set by the Jita Authorities.


And its a terrible feature for a company that boasts about having epic space fights with 4K dudes in a single system.

"We will bend over backwards to accommodate space fights, but if you want to do some business on the weekend in the main market hub of the game...we have no fucks to give. Come back later, or go somewhere else! " ~CCP
Salvos Rhoska
#311 - 2014-02-25 00:26:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Mario Putzo wrote:
Except it isn't a magic mail-box. Its NPC delivery.

You think the Caldari Empire would say..."Don't worry about it guys just go to Dodoxie we don't want your ISK flooding up our capitalist enterprise give it to the Gallente instead!"



NPC delivery?

You mean putting Couriers and Haulers out of work by automating their job?

Nope.

As to the Caldari Empires financial interest in Jita, its in their interest as well that more trade is handled in neighbouring systems, rather than Jita itself, because they are losing potential clientele at Jita, because though it is thr finest and most busy hub in the universe, even it has logistical limitations to how many Capsuleers it can service at one time. Such is EVE life.

As to your edit inclusion, Jita is in sovereign Caldari Empire space. They decide how many Capsuleers from all over the galaxy they allow in (yes, even us filthy Minmatar). Would you allow several thousand heavily armed vessels with unknown allegiances and agendas into your heart of commerce with impunity? No, I think not. And as is true of everything, their are limits to the logistics of a system. Jita simply cannot service more vessels, hence, gates closed, sorry for the inconvenience (as at every air/port, business center, restaurant, and establishment of any kind anywhere and at any time). When something is FULL, it is full.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Mario Putzo
#312 - 2014-02-25 00:30:22 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Except it isn't a magic mail-box. Its NPC delivery.

You think the Caldari Empire would say..."Don't worry about it guys just go to Dodoxie we don't want your ISK flooding up our capitalist enterprise give it to the Gallente instead!"



NPC delivery?

You mean putting Couriers and Haulers out of work by automating their job?

Nope.


Because 1 jump will bankrupt courries and haulers.

As a Courier/Trader myself who depends on access to Jita in order to fund my game experience the fact for 4 days of the week I can not reliably do what I like to do is pathetic. I can assure you that there will be no impact on trading or courier markets should CCP decide to allow players to buy and receive items in stations within systems surrounding Jita, or other Market hubs.

I guarantee that no Courier makes their living running contracts from Jita to New Caldari, and no Trader makes their living running items from Jita to New Caldari.

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#313 - 2014-02-25 00:33:38 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
You think the Caldari Empire would say..."Don't worry about it guys just go to Dodoxie we don't want your ISK flooding up our capitalist enterprise give it to the Gallente instead!"


I don't buy anything from the Caldari State (we're not an Empire silly).

I buy stuff from other players. Taxes and brokers fees are paid on the selling end not the buying end.

What you are proposing is not a suitable solution.

Instead, buy and sell stuff in New Caldari. Takes some of the load off of Jita, opens up a new., competitive market. No magic mailboxes or changing of game mechanics. Does not screw over Push, Frogs, or any other contract hauler.

I fail to see why this is so difficult. Can you help me to understand why this can't be done?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Mario Putzo
#314 - 2014-02-25 00:41:03 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
You think the Caldari Empire would say..."Don't worry about it guys just go to Dodoxie we don't want your ISK flooding up our capitalist enterprise give it to the Gallente instead!"

I fail to see why this is so difficult. Can you help me to understand why this can't be done?


You fail to see because you don't know what a market hub is.

And again "go somewhere else" does not solve the issue with Jita needing a cap, and that cap being exceeded.

Salvos Rhoska
#315 - 2014-02-25 00:42:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Mario Putzo wrote:

As a Courier/Trader myself who depends on access to Jita in order to fund my game experience the fact for 4 days of the week I can not reliably do what I like to do is pathetic.


Blame other players for flooding Jita, and yourself for refusing to adapt your playstyle to a PLAYER DRIVEN situation.

It is other players who are preventing you from "doing what you like", because guess what, they are ALSO doing what they like, which appears to be piling into Jita. Just like you.

This is called, for lack of a better word, competition.

You are now competing with other like yourself for the finite resource that is access to Jita.
Nothing unusual, wrong or vroken about this.It is ubiquitous and the case for everyone throughout EVE.
Competition.

As to how you fund your game experience, there are cou tless other ways to do so.
If you now find that this particular way is no longer profitable enough for you, or enjoyable enough for you (mostly do to OTHER PLAYERS now also competing with you), then try some other way to fund your gaming experience.

Its possible for you to do whatever you are doing at Jita, at another hub. Just relocate your operation and work at a less populated hub. Profits may be less, but so is the competition. That is universally the tradeoff in EVE.

As to turning transport of materials over to NPC bots, as was stated, that puts Couriers/Haulers out of work, and is absoluteky unnacceptable. Basically that is tantamount to saying "they shouldnt be allowed to play as they like, because I want to play as I like." Nope.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Mario Putzo
#316 - 2014-02-25 00:49:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:

As a Courier/Trader myself who depends on access to Jita in order to fund my game experience the fact for 4 days of the week I can not reliably do what I like to do is pathetic.


Blame other players for flooding Jita, and yourself for refusing to adapt your playstyle to a PLAYER DRIVEN situation.


Im not blaming anyone other than CCP for refusing to address what is becoming a more and more serious issue.

and no "Go somewhere else" is not a solution. CCP has given us the capacity to do whatever we want. They cater to the 80K dudes in nullsec by using every hardware trick they can conceive to keep 4K man fights going for 12+ hours. Yet they can't be assed to figure out how to get 4K dudes into Jita during primetime on Friday>Monday.

Competition is nonexistent when there is an cap in place. That by very definition is lack of competition. At least in a capitalist market sense. Which CCP seems to take a lot of pride in.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#317 - 2014-02-25 00:49:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimmi Chan
Mario Putzo wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
You think the Caldari Empire would say..."Don't worry about it guys just go to Dodoxie we don't want your ISK flooding up our capitalist enterprise give it to the Gallente instead!"

I fail to see why this is so difficult. Can you help me to understand why this can't be done?


You fail to see because you don't know what a market hub is.

And again "go somewhere else" does not solve the issue with Jita needing a cap, and that cap being exceeded.



That does not answer the question Mario?

Why can't a new market hub spring up in The Forge?
Why do we need CCP to change a mechanic because YOU can't go somewhere else?

I know what a market hub is. I don't give a damn. The hub exists because of the players. CCP has already made concessions to alleviate the issues with population in Jita.

CCP removed all agents from Jita.
CCP removed all asteroid belts from Jita.

But rather than play in the sandbox that the rest of us are playing in, you're demanding that CCP go one step further by changing the length, width, and depth of the sandbox, again.

By having NPC Couriers... a job that has always been performed by players. That is the extent to which you want to change the game. Heaven forbid YOU change. EVERYONE else must adapt to the new changes that you're suggesting to suit YOUR game. And you call CCP lazy...

Just selfish man.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#318 - 2014-02-25 00:51:41 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:

As a Courier/Trader myself who depends on access to Jita in order to fund my game experience the fact for 4 days of the week I can not reliably do what I like to do is pathetic.


Blame other players for flooding Jita, and yourself for refusing to adapt your playstyle to a PLAYER DRIVEN situation.


Im not blaming anyone other than CCP for refusing to address what is becoming a more and more serious issue.

and no "Go somewhere else" is not a solution. CCP has given us the capacity to do whatever we want. They cater to the 80K dudes in nullsec by using every hardware trick they can conceive to keep 4K man fights going for 12+ hours. Yet they can't be assed to figure out how to get 4K dudes into Jita during primetime on Friday>Monday.



Those 4k man fights involve 10% TiDi even with all of the hardware they can leverage. Is that what you're asking for in Jita?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Salvos Rhoska
#319 - 2014-02-25 01:00:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Mario Putzo wrote:
.Competition is nonexistent when there is an cap in place. That by very definition is lack of competition. At least in a capitalist market sense. Which CCP seems to take a lot of pride in.


Lol what? Every single market place in the world is capped, in various ways.
If by nothing else, then by the physical restrictions of space and the practical limitations of logistics.

You have been told, ingame, by Jita Authorities, that they are limiting transit to the station due to demand exceeding their capacity to service them. What part of that do you not understand?

If you go to a restaurant and are told by the staff that they are currently full and unable to offer you a table, do you start ranting at them?

If you attend a business conference that is alreadynfilled to capacity, do you expect them somehow to receive help from a God thatmagically intervenes to restructure reality and increases their premises capacity?

Jita is FULL. What part of that does not compute? FULL means FULL.
Kindly wait for a vacancy, or we must regretfully recommend to you to try another establishment.

To rephrase this differently, the competition to get into Jita is now so great, that you may have to rethink your game strategy.
Other players are competing with you for access. Just as you arw with them.

Competition has caught up with you at Jita. Younare now positively swarmed and surroundedmby competition.
Now, what are you going to do about it?

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#320 - 2014-02-25 01:05:21 UTC
If you can't go to Jita, there are several other major trade hubs that you could go to. Actually, considering how saturated the market is in Jita, you might have better success with making a profit in other systems like Amarr or Dodixie.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!