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Wormhole Sites Payout System

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Luthar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-02-08 19:44:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Luthar
It seems the forum warriors are out in force. Not surprised tbh. I have removed my offer to share my spreadsheet now. As I stated originally 'constructive' criticism is always welcome. Flagrant inflammatory comments are not. I ask that the forum moderators lock and remove this thread now. Thanks for your time and good day.
Luthar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-02-08 19:44:32 UTC
Reserved for future use
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#3 - 2014-02-08 22:23:43 UTC
I have removed a rule breaking post.

The rules:
5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
#4 - 2014-02-08 22:24:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Messoroz
ISD Ezwal wrote:
I have removed a rule breaking post.

The rules:
5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.



How is it trolling to demand an explanation to a question I asked? I am trying to encourage space communism for the greater benefit of the community and you go shoot me down in the name of some imaginary community that doesn't like isk.
ROSSLINDEN0
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-02-08 23:31:15 UTC
Messoroz wrote:
ISD Ezwal wrote:
I have removed a rule breaking post.

The rules:
5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.



How is it trolling to demand an explanation to a question I asked? I am trying to encourage space communism for the greater benefit of the community and you go shoot me down in the name of some imaginary community that doesn't like isk.


Don't worry hes an ISD they don't know what they're talking about that's why they need to volunteer to do something "important" in eve
xRyokenx
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2014-02-08 23:40:02 UTC
ROSSLINDEN0 wrote:
Messoroz wrote:
ISD Ezwal wrote:
I have removed a rule breaking post.

The rules:
5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.



How is it trolling to demand an explanation to a question I asked? I am trying to encourage space communism for the greater benefit of the community and you go shoot me down in the name of some imaginary community that doesn't like isk.


Don't worry hes an ISD they don't know what they're talking about that's why they need to volunteer to do something "important" in eve


Yep. Completely true.
Winthorp
#7 - 2014-02-09 00:25:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Winthorp
People still run escalations?

"You're doing it wrong"

I hope i too don't get ISD'd for disagreeing, but i am used to them deleting me now. Roll
Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#8 - 2014-02-09 01:30:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Proclus Diadochu
This thread is stupid. OP, post this garbage on Reddit. This sub-forum is for civilized conversation.


Also, don't report my post for being "mean" or "disagreeing". Although if ISD really wanted to do something solid, they'd throw this waste in GD.

To clarify:

[x] Posted with alt
[x] Asked for feedback, then reports feedback as trolling when people disagree
[x] Posted with alt
[x] Dishonourable involvement of the forum five-oh
[x] who cares
[x] Also, posted with alt

Those are the primary reasons this thread is bad. Enjoy your feedback.

Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare

E-mail: diogenes.proc@gmail.com

My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/

The Diogenes Club | Join W-Space | Down The Pipe
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#9 - 2014-02-09 02:09:24 UTC
/popcorn

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-02-09 03:09:19 UTC
Looks too complicated.

I've always been a fan of the "Jack" can method. I don't know if he came up with it but he always posted it.

Put loot in can. name can with particpants. Sell, % to corp (if needed), split.
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
#11 - 2014-02-09 04:57:46 UTC
Luthar wrote:
It seems the forum warriors are out in force. Not surprised tbh. I have removed my offer to share my spreadsheet now. As I stated originally 'constructive' criticism is always welcome. Flagrant inflammatory comments are not. I ask that the forum moderators lock and remove this thread now. Thanks for your time and good day.


It was constructive criticism on why is there a payout ratio for ship types with a legitimate inquiry for what kind of corporation would use such a system, so I may either (a) shoot them out of their misery and (b) never join them. It was entirely within the context of your thread as your spreadsheet brought up the question.
Luthar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-02-09 05:08:53 UTC
Messoroz wrote:
Luthar wrote:
It seems the forum warriors are out in force. Not surprised tbh. I have removed my offer to share my spreadsheet now. As I stated originally 'constructive' criticism is always welcome. Flagrant inflammatory comments are not. I ask that the forum moderators lock and remove this thread now. Thanks for your time and good day.


It was constructive criticism on why is there a payout ratio for ship types with a legitimate inquiry for what kind of corporation would use such a system, so I may either (a) shoot them out of their misery and (b) never join them. It was entirely within the context of your thread as your spreadsheet brought up the question.



Actually your original statement was not a question at all, it was a very badly worded statement about how you claim the system to be flawed with no inquiry into why it was setup that way.

To give an answer anways, we ran into the situation where we would have players come in poorly fit BShips or T3s that didn't have the resists to even tank the sites properly. We had a solid group that would bring properly fit ships and we brain stormed together to come up with a system to actually compensate based on isk being risked on the field. Naturally that would mean the Dreads and Carriers were compensated more for their presence. The list of what was needed versus what was brought was created and we worked with it and fine tuned our numbers to make it fair. We all agreed on this system before we implemented it and it works well for us.

No matter how you try to reason it, a Dread or Faction Bship should always receive more payout than someone showing up in a Meta 1-4 fit Megathron. This Socialistic ideal that everyone pulls out an even share when everyone contributes disproportionately just doesn't work long term. You get paid based on ability.
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
#13 - 2014-02-09 05:15:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Messoroz
Luthar wrote:
Messoroz wrote:
Luthar wrote:
It seems the forum warriors are out in force. Not surprised tbh. I have removed my offer to share my spreadsheet now. As I stated originally 'constructive' criticism is always welcome. Flagrant inflammatory comments are not. I ask that the forum moderators lock and remove this thread now. Thanks for your time and good day.


It was constructive criticism on why is there a payout ratio for ship types with a legitimate inquiry for what kind of corporation would use such a system, so I may either (a) shoot them out of their misery and (b) never join them. It was entirely within the context of your thread as your spreadsheet brought up the question.



Actually your original statement was not a question at all, it was a very badly worded statement about how you claim the system to be flawed with no inquiry into why it was setup that way.

To give an answer anways, we ran into the situation where we would have players come in poorly fit BShips or T3s that didn't have the resists to even tank the sites properly. We had a solid group that would bring properly fit ships and we brain stormed together to come up with a system to actually compensate based on isk being risked on the field. Naturally that would mean the Dreads and Carriers were compensated more for their presence. The list of what was needed versus what was brought was created and we worked with it and fine tuned our numbers to make it fair. We all agreed on this system before we implemented it and it works well for us.

No matter how you try to reason it, a Dread or Faction Bship should always receive more payout than someone showing up in a Meta 1-4 fit Megathron. This Socialistic ideal that everyone pulls out an even share when everyone contributes disproportionately just doesn't work long term. You get paid based on ability.


You see, that's a properly worded statement instead of batphoning ISD.

Quote:
This Socialistic ideal that everyone pulls out an even share when everyone contributes disproportionately just doesn't work long term.

Why not? You make boatloads of isk in wspace, unless everyone is trying to deadspace fit their falcons, isk all around!
Luthar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-02-09 05:19:56 UTC
A difference of ideals I suppose.
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2014-02-09 05:41:10 UTC
Luthar wrote:
A difference of ideals I suppose.



While I respect your opinion I have to say any corp, alliance or group that relies on this spreadsheet or some sort of ratio system in order to insure that their members show up in proper ships is a corp/group doomed to fail. Just have your CEO tell people to proper fit their ships or GTFO.
Luthar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-02-09 05:51:51 UTC
Either way it doesn't really matter as those who have it now can keep it and do what they want with it. I figured I would attempt to offer something that could be useful for those that may need it. Obviously those that have strong opinions on this matter are highly respectable WH corps/alliances and its not worth my time nor yours to hash out why or how to develop a payout system. It works for us, yours works for yourselves. If I ever joined one of your corps I wouldn't have an issue using whatever system you currently use as I'm sure you have proven it to work within your own group[s].

I am withdrawing my topic and still wish for this thread to be locked and or deleted from existence as it doesn't seem to be an issue for most WH dwellers. Sorry to waste everyones time.
TXG SYNC
Dad Jokes R Us
#17 - 2014-02-09 05:55:10 UTC
I'm gonna disagree with Gnaw here. We have a shares system that works out well for us in a very straightforward fashion, based on risk and investment.

If a player is flying a Dread, Carrier, or Loki he or she is entitled to a share.
If that player is flying a Dread or Carrier and has not yet earned his/her first 4Bn from escalations, he/she is entitled to a double share until the first 4Bn is earned.
Overwatch, Salvage, and Jams each get half a share.
Anybody who shows up in a doctrine PvP ship and ready to fight shares half a share with anyone else who's online and in the wormhole we're escalating.

The values are really easy to plug in, are per site, and it goes really smoothly once we worked it out. I particularly like that we reward those we're inconveniencing while we have the system on "lockdown" (no in/out traffic, no scanning/warping to holes, overwatch watching for new ship sigs, etc.) with half a share. You get paid for cracking jokes on Teamspeak and flying a PvP ship to any new holes that spawn in system.
Glyndi
Doom Generation
Best Intentions.
#18 - 2014-02-09 06:06:21 UTC
equal payouts for all participants....no spreadsheet needed