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Request: Loan for Capital Production

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mine err
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-02-07 18:36:00 UTC  |  Edited by: mine err
Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen!

I am looking to get a loan to be able to start manufacturing carriers. The loan will be used for acquiring the BPO's and for that only.

A BPO set for a carrier runs at about 16b-19b so that is my target range. As for Collateral, I have my most beloved character Scuzzy Syd. I will pay the transfer fees.


eveboard can be found here: http://eveboard.com/pilot/Scuzzy_Syd

As for what I can get as a loan for the character, I'm shooting for 12b? This is my first loan request so don't be too hostile. Tell me what you'd be willing to offer up for the character mentioned above.

Let me know what you guys think and we can hammer out the nooks and crannies of all this.

Fly safe


Edit: Removed some stuff that is against the rules
Jalep Malukker
Sudden Death.
Exodus.
#2 - 2014-02-07 19:53:31 UTC
What's your proposed interest rates and terms of the loan? How frequently will interest be calculated?
Nedly Stark
ARAZ Engineering
#3 - 2014-02-07 21:02:57 UTC
Where is the loan collateral? And what is the collateral?
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#4 - 2014-02-07 21:49:41 UTC
An excerpt from the Character Bazaar rules, which detail the requirements for character trading:

Quote:

4. The character being sold must receive the ISK for the purchase and only ISK. Characters may not be sold in exchange for items.

22. Down-payment plans are not supported by CCP Customer Support. As a seller, you are agreeing to a certain amount of ISK only, which is to be paid in one payment. Once again, any forms of scams regarding character sales is prohibited.


In other words, a character trade is a one-time event in which a character and a pile of ISK change hands, no more. There is no structure around formalized long term contracts using characters as bargaining chips. Of course, there are no rules against trading someone a character, then later trading for your character back, both conducted via private sale threads in the Character Bazaar, but I would still advise you to be cautious.

The safest course of action is probably to submit a support ticket and get some feedback from a GM on how you could/should proceed with this and stay well within the rules.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
Anders Madeveda
Usque Ad Mortem
#5 - 2014-02-07 21:53:23 UTC
" I will do an even trade/loan for a set of capital BPO's."


I could be mistaken but I don't believe you are able to trade in game items for character's. That said, where will you acquire the balance of your needed funds? Will you be buying researched BPO's? If not then you will either lose money in production or have an absurd repayment timeline while you get the BPO's researched. Have you any experience in Production Lines? I guess overall I get the impression that you haven't done your homework prior to asking for a loan.

Taesith
#6 - 2014-02-07 22:44:06 UTC
How are you handling logistics for your business?
Where is your risk assessment?
How long will it take for you pay off the loan?
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
#7 - 2014-02-08 00:21:30 UTC
Mail you the list of bpos you will be using, as well as the duration you expect the loan to last. I'll reply with some my terms and an offer.

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mine err
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2014-02-08 00:22:17 UTC
Alright so I'm sorry for the late reply but I had to take my gf out to get some stuff. So lets try to get all of these answered in one go.

Jalep Malukker wrote:
What's your proposed interest rates and terms of the loan? How frequently will interest be calculated?


As far as this goes, I am not entirely sure what is deemed as acceptable? I would imagine on a 13b loan at 9% for 1 year would come out to 1,170,000,000 in interest paid. Or payments of 22,500,000 a week.

Nedly Stark wrote:
Where is the loan collateral? And what is the collateral?


The Collateral would be my character. I would sell you my character for the loaned amount and when I have made all the necessary arrangements to pay back the loan, I will buy the character back.

ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
An excerpt from the Character Bazaar rules, which detail the requirements for character trading:

Quote:

4. The character being sold must receive the ISK for the purchase and only ISK. Characters may not be sold in exchange for items.

22. Down-payment plans are not supported by CCP Customer Support. As a seller, you are agreeing to a certain amount of ISK only, which is to be paid in one payment. Once again, any forms of scams regarding character sales is prohibited.


In other words, a character trade is a one-time event in which a character and a pile of ISK change hands, no more. There is no structure around formalized long term contracts using characters as bargaining chips. Of course, there are no rules against trading someone a character, then later trading for your character back, both conducted via private sale threads in the Character Bazaar, but I would still advise you to be cautious.

The safest course of action is probably to submit a support ticket and get some feedback from a GM on how you could/should proceed with this and stay well within the rules.


I don't think I am breaking any rules as a character is being sold for isk. Then a character is being bought back for isk. My goal is to document the whole ordeal so both myself and the person loaning me the isk will be under the protection of CCP. I am aware that scamming with characters are prohibited and therefore will not be risking it.

Anders Madeveda wrote:
" I will do an even trade/loan for a set of capital BPO's."


I could be mistaken but I don't believe you are able to trade in game items for character's. That said, where will you acquire the balance of your needed funds? Will you be buying researched BPO's? If not then you will either lose money in production or have an absurd repayment timeline while you get the BPO's researched. Have you any experience in Production Lines? I guess overall I get the impression that you haven't done your homework prior to asking for a loan.



I have removed that statement as ISD Lackoffaith has pointed out that characters are only to be traded for isk.



Bertrand Prout
Sunday Sessions
#9 - 2014-02-08 00:23:31 UTC
mine err wrote:
A BPO set for a carrier runs at about 16b-19b so that is my target range.


That's way off, think 30b to 40b for a decent set, especially if you want to repay before 2040. Can you match that sum in collateral?
mine err
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2014-02-08 00:23:49 UTC
Taesith wrote:
How are you handling logistics for your business?
Where is your risk assessment?
How long will it take for you pay off the loan?


I have multiple characters who can run logisitics and production lines.

I am experienced in manufacturing all the way up to t2 battleships and even have a website dedicated to orders. that website can be found here :

http://kki.evespace.co.uk/

As far as how long it would take to pay off a loan, I have provided a sample above of 9% interest over 1 year
mine err
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2014-02-08 00:32:00 UTC
Bertrand Prout wrote:
mine err wrote:
A BPO set for a carrier runs at about 16b-19b so that is my target range.


That's way off, think 30b to 40b for a decent set, especially if you want to repay before 2040. Can you match that sum in collateral?


I have a set that's going to cost me 16b
Bertrand Prout
Sunday Sessions
#12 - 2014-02-08 01:25:23 UTC
Now I'm confused. Are you going to be able to acquire a complete BPO set to build carriers for 16b or you are you just getting the last BPOs you need to finish a set? That would be how many BPOs in total?
mine err
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2014-02-08 01:35:38 UTC  |  Edited by: mine err
Bertrand Prout wrote:
Now I'm confused. Are you going to be able to acquire a complete BPO set to build carriers for 16b or you are you just getting the last BPOs you need to finish a set? That would be how many BPOs in total?


I have the ability to acquire the BPO's with the loan for about 16b I do have some start up capital to get the ball rolling with the production but I need the isk to purchase the BPO's

Edit: 11 bpo's total
Bertrand Prout
Sunday Sessions
#14 - 2014-02-08 05:29:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Prout
There are 12 components for carriers and you need at least 1 ship print to actually build something. Minimum would then be 13 BPOs but even then, that would be pointless and inefficient since you'd have a critical bottleneck with Drone Bays. Without going in detail, to allow a smooth production and decent profits, you need a total of 25 prints (1 of each, 5 drone bays, 9 carriers) that will roughly cost 35b. Below 25, the investment is way too big for something that barely gives profits, especially if you need to repay a loan.

I could explain more if you want, but IMO forget this loan, take some time and gather enough collateral for a complete set.

Edit: words
Kendra Coldera
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#15 - 2014-02-08 17:43:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Kendra Coldera
mine err wrote:

Jalep Malukker wrote:
What's your proposed interest rates and terms of the loan? How frequently will interest be calculated?


As far as this goes, I am not entirely sure what is deemed as acceptable? I would imagine on a 13b loan at 9% for 1 year would come out to 1,170,000,000 in interest paid. Or payments of 22,500,000 a week.


Interest is usually calculated monthly. So when someone here requests a loan of 10b for 5% that means 5% on 10b PER MONTH.

Your proposed 9% either mean you only offer 0.75% per month of interest or you actually mean 9% monthly which would 1,170,000,000 ISK per month aka 14,04 Bil for the duration of 1 year.

9% surely would be a bit much for a collateralized loan. Basically if the character is really worth 13b ISK you might get 11,82b ISK (110% collateralized by the character worth 13b) for about 4-5% interest (MONTHLY!) so 591m per month or 7,092b for the year.

Knowing the carrier market myself I would say that with a set of Prints that is enough for mass-producing on 4 Carrier BPOs (total of BPO NPC value is about 25b) you will have a hard time repaying your loan. If you actually plan to start with just 1 Carrier BPO you will crumble to even get your interest paid.

EDIT: this is basically what the poster above means :D
Blueprint Seller
Bring Me Sunshine
#16 - 2014-02-08 18:30:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Blueprint Seller
I could supply you the highly researched BPOs for the capital hulls and components on a loan basis.

However, the BPOs would have to remain locked down in a corp I control, so feel free to contact me if you are willing to move some alts to a different corp for the duration of the loan agreement.

There would be no need for you to sell or trade me your character, if you use this method.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#17 - 2014-02-08 18:42:58 UTC
Every loan I have seen using a character as collateral has fallen flat on it's face. Either CCP's rules or the high cost of a double transfer always scuppers the plan.

It's just not economical to pay 4 PLEX (2.4B+) for a double transfer in any situation where there are more traditional forms of collateral in play (like the BPOs in this case). There are a dozen reputable people on this forum that will happily supply you with locked down BPOs that you can buy in installments. Doing so will save you the high double transfer cost and keep your interest rate low (although not 0.75% per month low, that's just silly).
mine err
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2014-02-09 04:22:47 UTC
Blueprint Seller wrote:
I could supply you the highly researched BPOs for the capital hulls and components on a loan basis.

However, the BPOs would have to remain locked down in a corp I control, so feel free to contact me if you are willing to move some alts to a different corp for the duration of the loan agreement.

There would be no need for you to sell or trade me your character, if you use this method.


Sent you a mail in game


As for the loan status I have sold my character. No more need for a loan. Thanks everyone for your feedback :)
RAW23
#19 - 2014-02-09 09:30:54 UTC
This seems like the perfect example of a borrower who needs a BPO purchase plan. I'm not sure if anyone is still offering these but they used to be very popular when I was running my loans business. Basically, the borrower puts up a 10% deposit and the lender buys the prints. The lender then either locks the prints down for the use of the borrower or researches them on their behalf while the borrower pays the monthly interest (normally 3-4%) plus any agreed amount of the loan principle. It means the borrower can get the prints he needs immediately for only 10% of the price and the lender has the same security as they would in a 110% collateralised loan.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#20 - 2014-02-09 22:49:13 UTC
RAW23 wrote:
This seems like the perfect example of a borrower who needs a BPO purchase plan. I'm not sure if anyone is still offering these but they used to be very popular when I was running my loans business. Basically, the borrower puts up a 10% deposit and the lender buys the prints. The lender then either locks the prints down for the use of the borrower or researches them on their behalf while the borrower pays the monthly interest (normally 3-4%) plus any agreed amount of the loan principle. It means the borrower can get the prints he needs immediately for only 10% of the price and the lender has the same security as they would in a 110% collateralised loan.


I hear that Bad Bobby is a great person to talk to for supercapital BPO purchase plans.

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