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The Great Career Respect Thread
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Deadonstick Puppyseeker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-02-07 14:41:03 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Deadonstick Puppyseeker wrote:

Does anyone have a well formed, well argumented reason to hate


The fallacy is usually right at the beginning. You are asking for a logical explanation for something inherently illogical like emotion. Why don't you ask people to figure out how much love weighs while you're at it.

EVE is a reflection of the human condition, because as a sandbox EVE is merely a reflection of the humans within it. Once you understand this, then it will all make sense (or account for why it fails to make sense).


It's not a fallacy though, emotions have logic behind them. Rage is more logical to result from someone killing your family than it is because someone thought your jeans didn't match your eyes. But yeah, you do have a point.

Despite what you may have heard there's only one rule of EVE:

Never stop learning and realise there's always a lot more to be learned. To this end, seek wisdom in everything.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#22 - 2014-02-07 14:55:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Deadonstick Puppyseeker wrote:

...
But why are (some) low and nullbears always screaming carebears ruin the game, even though they provide the cheap minerals so that they can get their PVP ships nice and cheap.
...

Speaking for myself, a hisec merc, pirate and general naer-do-well..I hate petition carebears, not every carebear.

Let me explain. The carebear who does his thing and adds to the community is welcome to do so. The carebear who occasionally gets zapped and instead of raging or petitioning, instead asks 'how' and tries to learn from it, I embrace (and even recruit). The carebear who wallows in his stupidity and amplifies it by wailing on the forums, or worse petitions for nerfs, is an abomination that must be blasted from new eden.

Its not about carebear hate, its about what I call 'petition carebears' who push CCP to change EvE's core values over time to mitigate their stupidity and inability to learn. CCP hears their cries like an evil sirens song, and in hopes of increasing subscriptions are drawn to the nerfing dark side. We must bring them back into the light by bathing petition carebears in even more cleansing fire.

F

Would you like to know more?
Deadonstick Puppyseeker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#23 - 2014-02-07 15:11:43 UTC
So basically, your hate is directed at people whom think the only way they could have possibly been destroyed is because of some exploit that needs to be fixed and refuse to take personal responsibility? Correct?

Despite what you may have heard there's only one rule of EVE:

Never stop learning and realise there's always a lot more to be learned. To this end, seek wisdom in everything.
Mythrandier
Solace Corp
#24 - 2014-02-07 15:31:08 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Deadonstick Puppyseeker wrote:

...
But why are (some) low and nullbears always screaming carebears ruin the game, even though they provide the cheap minerals so that they can get their PVP ships nice and cheap.
...

Speaking for myself, a hisec merc, pirate and general naer-do-well..I hate petition carebears, not every carebear.

Let me explain. The carebear who does his thing and adds to the community is welcome to do so. The carebear who occasionally gets zapped and instead of raging or petitioning, instead asks 'how' and tries to learn from it, I embrace (and even recruit). The carebear who wallows in his stupidity and amplifies it by wailing on the forums, or worse petitions for nerfs, is an abomination that must be blasted from new eden.

Its not about carebear hate, its about what I call 'petition carebears' who push CCP to change EvE's core values over time to mitigate their stupidity and inability to learn. CCP hears their cries like an evil sirens song, and in hopes of increasing subscriptions are drawn to the nerfing dark side. We must bring them back into the light by bathing petition carebears in even more cleansing fire.

F


It irks me that I can only click the like button once sometimes…

Totally agree with everything said here, nail meet head.

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -  D. Adams.
Bull Worth
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2014-02-07 15:56:17 UTC
Hmm what do I hate?

I don't mind pirates taking advantage of a target, that is part of the game.

I do hate when I hear people say they enjoy other peoples tears, getting a kick out of someone's sorrow is a poor way to live.

I certainly understand any victim is going to be unhappy its just the gloating about it that is in poor taste.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#26 - 2014-02-07 15:59:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Deadonstick Puppyseeker wrote:
So basically, your hate is directed at people whom think the only way they could have possibly been destroyed is because of some exploit that needs to be fixed and refuse to take personal responsibility? Correct?

Its more broad a problem sadly.

EvE used to be about HTFU and 'dont fly what you cant afford to lose' as its core and inviolate axioms, even in hisec.

Today, hisec carebears are being dipped in more and more bubble wrap by CCP to try and prevent them from being detonated in hisec, and the bears are being given the impression that hisec is supposed to be 100% safe. That is NOT the case.

The real problem? This road to nerfdom is being pursued at the destruction of a very vibrant pirate playstyle in hisec, all in the name of wooing moar WoW-reject subscriptions.

The petition bears are many, numerous and multiplying. They come on the forums or file petitions raging about getting sploded, rather than learning how not to get sploded. They rail against ganking. They press for consensual-only war declarations. They cry and gnash their teeth when a smart pirate uses their AFK aggressive drones and MTU's against them to splode them, rather than just use the proper 'passive' setting.

They must be bathed in fire by us with renewed vigor, to learn HTFU and 'dont fly what you cant afford to lose' at our hands -- because its clear CCP is working against us now on teaching that next generation of EVE players these core axioms which made EvE special in the first place...

Non-consensual conflict that rewards the smart and punishes the unprepared and stupid, thats EvE, even in hisec.

Would you like to know more?
Deadonstick Puppyseeker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-02-07 15:59:31 UTC
I mostly hate hypocrits. Low-sec PVPers whom claim to hate carebears(risk-aversed people) and thus decide to punish them by massganking defenseless mining barges. Because remember kids, nothing is a bigger sign of your willingness to take risks than attacking defenseless vessels.

Despite what you may have heard there's only one rule of EVE:

Never stop learning and realise there's always a lot more to be learned. To this end, seek wisdom in everything.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#28 - 2014-02-07 16:02:49 UTC
Deadonstick Puppyseeker wrote:
I mostly hate hypocrits. Low-sec PVPers whom claim to hate carebears(risk-aversed people) and thus decide to punish them by massganking defenseless mining barges. Because remember kids, nothing is a bigger sign of your willingness to take risks than attacking defenseless vessels.

Is a pirate no longer a viable career choice in EvE? Are we not human like you?

If you prick us, do we not bleed?

If your cry for nerfs wrong us, do we not revenge?

Would you like to know more?
Deadonstick Puppyseeker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-02-07 16:05:43 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Deadonstick Puppyseeker wrote:
I mostly hate hypocrits. Low-sec PVPers whom claim to hate carebears(risk-aversed people) and thus decide to punish them by massganking defenseless mining barges. Because remember kids, nothing is a bigger sign of your willingness to take risks than attacking defenseless vessels.

Is a pirate no longer a viable career choice in EvE? Are we not human like you?

If you prick us, do we not bleed?

If your cry for nerfs wrong us, do we not revenge?


Oh no I'm fine with pirates. But don't hate carebears for not taking risks whilst you only attacking riskless targets yourself. (carebear here being distinctly different than a petitionbear). I have no problems with pirates, just with the ones that punish people for not taking risks by not taking risks.

As long as the pirates in question either don't hate carebears with a passion it's fine. Or if they also pick on targets they might lose against :P

Despite what you may have heard there's only one rule of EVE:

Never stop learning and realise there's always a lot more to be learned. To this end, seek wisdom in everything.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#30 - 2014-02-07 16:48:12 UTC
Deadonstick Puppyseeker wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Deadonstick Puppyseeker wrote:
I mostly hate hypocrits. Low-sec PVPers whom claim to hate carebears(risk-aversed people) and thus decide to punish them by massganking defenseless mining barges. Because remember kids, nothing is a bigger sign of your willingness to take risks than attacking defenseless vessels.

Is a pirate no longer a viable career choice in EvE? Are we not human like you?

If you prick us, do we not bleed?

If your cry for nerfs wrong us, do we not revenge?


Oh no I'm fine with pirates. But don't hate carebears for not taking risks whilst you only attacking riskless targets yourself. (carebear here being distinctly different than a petitionbear). I have no problems with pirates, just with the ones that punish people for not taking risks by not taking risks.

As long as the pirates in question either don't hate carebears with a passion it's fine. Or if they also pick on targets they might lose against :P

But then sadly in a thread titled 'Career Respect Thread' you are trying to govern and control others careers or playstyles. i.e. the kill-it-all-pirate. That is where a carebear worthy of respect, turns into a petition carebear worthy of baptism by fire in holy HTFU gankage for that reason alone.

Would you like to know more?
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#31 - 2014-02-07 17:30:20 UTC
I hate NPC corp channel "infini-lurkers."

The ladies and gentlemen who will mine or mission perpetually, thinking that one little box is the "multiplayer" in MMO.

The individuals who will deter newbies from ever joining a corp, ever fleeting up, and ever seeing the larger picture of what EvE is all about.

And the worst part?

These individuals just spawn another generation of "inifini-lurkers."

And the cycle simply perpetuates endlessly.

I could care less about professions.

Pirate.

Miner.

Mission dude.

Whatever.

I have done it all, except live for long periods in a WH. So I know each of these career types pros, cons, and worries. But it is the damn lurkers who are the worst. Yea, there is some advice here or there (usually from other types of player who are merely passing through), but fleeting up and corping up are NOT ALWAYS going to be a scam. In fact, many of the people who do lurk for years would find that their enjoyments inside of EvE might possibly change, and that they might actually find a new way to play, make isk, and most importantly, have fun.

Instead of lurking, they should say, "You know what....why not?" and live a little. But that, ofc, is just my opinion. I am sure more than a few have a problem with my profession. But...

That's life.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#32 - 2014-02-07 20:13:25 UTC
People dont hate people or their professions, what people cannot stand is the rampant entitlement that goes along with their threads.

Entitlement is the problem, not lack of respect...although I find it rather hard to respect some of these entitled little *****.



Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Vyl Vit
#33 - 2014-02-08 00:47:06 UTC
Thing is, carebears are leeches. Where you're wrong is, pirates are the natural "douchery".
Keep at it. You'll get there.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Billy McCandless
Zacharia Explorations Group
#34 - 2014-02-08 02:57:05 UTC
synoe alting is fore reel men

yoo need nerfs of steal and hawt feet

"Thread locked for being deemed a total loss." - ISD Ezwal
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#35 - 2014-02-08 02:58:58 UTC
What's the point of anonymity if you can't use it to be a complete and utter ****?

Mr Epeen Cool
Esha Ditrix
#36 - 2014-02-08 10:40:15 UTC
the same reason people hate on each other in real life, ignorance...

Its not an exploit, if the game lets you do it...
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#37 - 2014-02-08 11:10:12 UTC
Deadonstick Puppyseeker wrote:

It's not a fallacy though, emotions have logic behind them. Rage is more logical to result from someone killing your family than it is because someone thought your jeans didn't match your eyes. But yeah, you do have a point.


No they most definitely do not have logic behind them. They have justification. That's not the same.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#38 - 2014-02-08 11:42:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
I've got no qualms against any particular play style. Everyone is entitled to do whatever they want. Which is the problem, because sometimes people want to stop other people from doing what they want. That's where people get upset and start spouting elitist entitled bullshit.

People just need to learn **** happens, and just be happy that it happened in a computer game that they enjoy.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2014-02-08 14:08:02 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Its not about carebear hate, its about what I call 'petition carebears' who push CCP to change EvE's core values over time to mitigate their stupidity and inability to learn.

These "petition carebears", as you call them, tend to be abundant on both sides of the fence, as is evident from these forums. In fact, I'd dare say petition-doin-it-wrong-unless-its-my-way elitist pvpers, tend to be more insistent, more radical, and overall louder than the typical carebear, as the typical ranting carebear generally OP's once and disappears back into the game.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#40 - 2014-02-09 23:44:41 UTC
Bull Worth wrote:
Hmm what do I hate?

I don't mind pirates taking advantage of a target, that is part of the game.

I do hate when I hear people say they enjoy other peoples tears, getting a kick out of someone's sorrow is a poor way to live.

I certainly understand any victim is going to be unhappy its just the gloating about it that is in poor taste.


While I agree with you I still enjoy war targets lament their decisions in local. To me that is different then gloating over an easy kill. Likewise the reaction of the victim to his ships demise can be appalling as well. I've learned to take my losses in stride, GF for good fights and GG when I go down because I screwed up, got ganked, blobbed or otherwise came to explode without evidence of an actual fight. Being so brave to disregard cloaking while probing at the sun, does not constitute a right to verbally abuse someone when they nab your blueprints and decryptors. Pirate
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