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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Reactive Armor Hardener Cap Scaling (Paper Cut 1001)

First post
Author
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2014-02-22 17:41:43 UTC
I still prefer the option where the RAH permanently reserves some cap on installation but then only consumes (less) cap per cycle as an active mod but maintains the current shift when not in use.

Since it can manitain 60% of resists when not in use it shouldn't have to reset when you stop the cycling.
scimichar
Deep Hole Explorers of New Eden
#62 - 2014-02-22 17:49:31 UTC
The Afterburner skill used to be the same way until recently. I suspect it will be another 8 years before this is fixed.
JetStream Drenard
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#63 - 2014-02-22 18:08:25 UTC
Ellendras Silver wrote:
well to sum up
this module is good but needs to be modified:

issues:

  1. the worst is that by training the skill higher you get faster adaption on damage taken, but the cap use goes up even further, this makes it desirable to have it at level 4 or even lower in a lot of cases. If a module creates the NEED to be on lower level even in some cases means there is something seriously wrong. because beside this module i cant think of another module, ship, charge, implant or whatever that makes you wish you had lower skills on it!
  2. because the use of cap is so high and there is only one version of this module it is good on capital ships and battleships but the smaller the ship gets the harder it is to use this module as it uses way too much cap, even to justify the resistance shift.


solutions:

  1. like i posted earlier make a version for frigates and destroyers, one for cruisers and battle cruisers and a final one for battleships and capitals.
  2. make cap bonus bigger per level.
  3. reduce cap for this module.
  4. change module so it only uses (much) cap when shifting resistances.


you can off course make a combination of the given solutions, i myself like the first one best then again that was my suggestion so no surprise there.

once it is all balanced out i really like a T2 version as well
4 great ways to 'fix' this module, any one of which would do the job. Hope it happens because i accidentally trained to 4...
Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2014-02-22 18:18:11 UTC
Good thoughts all; added the different ideas to the front of the post. Come on devs, lets hear it: I want to know why you think this doesn't need to be changed.

Svo.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.

Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#65 - 2014-02-22 18:29:23 UTC
Svodola Darkfury wrote:
Good thoughts all; added the different ideas to the front of the post. Come on devs, lets hear it: I want to know why you think this doesn't need to be changed.

Svo.


i like to go a step further and i dare to say that it is impossible to defend that this module is in "some" cases preferred to be on level 3 then level 5 and that there is NOTHING else in the whole of EVE universe that would benefit from a LOWER skill then 5. so therefor there is something seriously wrong with this module.

i use "some" because the amount of times is debatable, never the less they are there.

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]

Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2014-02-26 02:53:48 UTC
Still looking for some dev love on Paper Cut 1001. Smile

Svo.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.

Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#67 - 2014-02-26 11:11:41 UTC
Ellendras Silver wrote:
well to sum up
this module is good but needs to be modified:

issues:

  1. the worst is that by training the skill higher you get faster adaption on damage taken, but the cap use goes up even further, this makes it desirable to have it at level 4 or even lower in a lot of cases. If a module creates the NEED to be on lower level even in some cases means there is something seriously wrong. because beside this module i cant think of another module, ship, charge, implant or whatever that makes you wish you had lower skills on it!
  2. because the use of cap is so high and there is only one version of this module it is good on capital ships and battleships but the smaller the ship gets the harder it is to use this module as it uses way too much cap, even to justify the resistance shift.


solutions:

  1. like i posted earlier make a version for frigates and destroyers, one for cruisers and battle cruisers and a final one for battleships and capitals.
  2. make cap bonus bigger per level.
  3. reduce cap for this module.
  4. change module so it only uses (much) cap when shifting resistances.


you can off course make a combination of the given solutions, i myself like the first one best then again that was my suggestion so no surprise there.

once it is all balanced out i really like a T2 version as well


the person that i am quoting is brilliant, cant say anything else he or she must be a freaking genius. Cool

This post got me thinking some more and i was thinking in the way of making the standard use a flat cap need that is low and with a shift it would need more cap for 1 cycle to make the shift in resistance. much like i posted in option 4 but here is the twist why not make the cap use needed on shifting resistance on the total amount of armor. The more armor hit points you have the more cap the module needs for shifting and or standard operation.

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]

Travasty Space
Pilots of Epic
#68 - 2014-02-26 11:22:30 UTC
You say it is better to have the RAH skill at 3 due to cap, but I say RAH 5 is better because I use cap boosters anyways and the difference doesn't realistically affect me.

If you are going to give opinions don't try to give them as facts, makes you look bad.

PS: There are other places where this preference can happen and nothing has really been complained about.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#69 - 2014-02-26 12:41:52 UTC
Svodola Darkfury wrote:
Seranova Farreach wrote:
iirc the sweet spot for that modual is Level 3 skill.


Agreed; which doesn't make sense. You shouldn't have a level below 5 that has a "sweet spot" for the mod you're training for. 7 second cycle time with the lower capacitor need is plenty for most situations. What I want is for the 5 seconds to be worth taking without being slowly penalized as I level up.

Svo.


May I present you to tactical shield manipulation?
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#70 - 2014-02-26 13:10:15 UTC
Travasty Space wrote:
You say it is better to have the RAH skill at 3 due to cap, but I say RAH 5 is better because I use cap boosters anyways and the difference doesn't realistically affect me.

If you are going to give opinions don't try to give them as facts, makes you look bad.

PS: There are other places where this preference can happen and nothing has really been complained about.


try use this module on a T1 cruiser or frigate with the RAH at lvl 5 see how you like it then. it is just too much cap and its absolutely ridiculous that there are situations where it is preferable to have the skill at lvl 3 instead of lvl 5. that you don't fly ships where it is a big deal doesn't mean it is a perfectly balanced module because its not

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]

Adoris Nolen
Sama Guild
#71 - 2014-02-26 13:38:32 UTC
iirc, the cap buggery is meant to specifically discourage use on cruisers & smaller ships. Certain frigs, t2 cruisers would become straight up OP with it.
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#72 - 2014-02-26 14:39:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Ellendras Silver
Adoris Nolen wrote:
iirc, the cap buggery is meant to specifically discourage use on cruisers & smaller ships. Certain frigs, t2 cruisers would become straight up OP with it.


i really don't agree on this. even if it was true its a lame way to balance a mod on cap use.

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]

Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#73 - 2014-02-26 15:25:51 UTC
Adoris Nolen wrote:
iirc, the cap buggery is meant to specifically discourage use on cruisers & smaller ships. Certain frigs, t2 cruisers would become straight up OP with it.


Please do tell, which frig or t2 cruiser would be OP if the reactive would require 33% less cap?

Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#74 - 2014-02-26 15:31:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
scimichar wrote:
The Afterburner skill used to be the same way until recently.


Not really the same. The skill extended duration, which improved the cap use. its not the same at all. The only problem with it was extending the duration made it harder to turn off, which was situationally bad.

Adoris Nolen wrote:
iirc, the cap buggery is meant to specifically discourage use on cruisers & smaller ships. Certain frigs, t2 cruisers would become straight up OP with it.


no, because its high cap use already discourages that use. That's no reason for the skill to make cap use worse.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2014-02-27 04:23:14 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Svodola Darkfury wrote:
Seranova Farreach wrote:
iirc the sweet spot for that modual is Level 3 skill.


Agreed; which doesn't make sense. You shouldn't have a level below 5 that has a "sweet spot" for the mod you're training for. 7 second cycle time with the lower capacitor need is plenty for most situations. What I want is for the 5 seconds to be worth taking without being slowly penalized as I level up.

Svo.


May I present you to tactical shield manipulation?


Sure. For what purpose? It has a purely linear increase in effectiveness. 5% decrease in shield bleed per level stopping at 0% at level 5.

Travasty Space wrote:
You say it is better to have the RAH skill at 3 due to cap, but I say RAH 5 is better because I use cap boosters anyways and the difference doesn't realistically affect me.

If you are going to give opinions don't try to give them as facts, makes you look bad.

PS: There are other places where this preference can happen and nothing has really been complained about.


I utilize a cap booster on my Proteus fit; it allows me to maintain 100% run time on my fit. I think that making a mod balanced around Battleships and Cap ships that isn't used by battleships OR cap ships and then saying "it's not meant for sub-BS" is a fallacious argument. If it's not seeing use it needs to be revised. If you don't want it used on things below Battleship, adjusting the cap doesn't make a difference, because as you said, we can just use cap boosters. What I'm saying is not that the mod is not more effective at level 5. I'm saying that the bonus delta coefficient goes down for each level that you train it, meaning that as you approach Level 5, the amount of benefit you get per level diminishes drastically.

Finally, I challenge you to be a better player. Don't accept things simply because they function. There is a difference between enjoyable, ACTUAL choices, and cookie cutter choices because all the other crap sucks.


Svo.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.

Stephanie Rosefire
Atlas Protectorate and Empire Defense Agency
#76 - 2014-02-27 06:14:35 UTC
i usually roll with a DCII and a RAH (reactive armor hardener) but yes, i agree. i looked into this before i fully trained the skill, and kept it at LVL 1. i think that what the OP said should happen.
Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2014-03-06 03:27:52 UTC
Bump, still gathering support, ideas and waiting for a dev response.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#78 - 2014-03-06 03:58:28 UTC
Svodola Darkfury wrote:
Bump, still gathering support, ideas and waiting for a dev response.

Seems strange there hasn't even been an acknowledgement...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#79 - 2014-03-06 12:56:35 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Svodola Darkfury wrote:
Bump, still gathering support, ideas and waiting for a dev response.

Seems strange there hasn't even been an acknowledgement...


i agree same for drones btw

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]

Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2014-03-11 04:52:08 UTC
Bump. Come on devs, during the week I live vicariously through the forums. Tell me you've at least read this.

Svo.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.