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Huge Exploit

First post
Author
Mag's
Azn Empire
#61 - 2014-02-07 12:02:46 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Mag's wrote:
In a game that prides itself on the fact that friends are likely to stab you in the back, it makes perfect sense as it is.

You open yourself up to the loss of any ship by anyone, as soon as you undock. Changing the contract system for the OP in this instance, will not prevent this from happening. People will still seed gank contacts, just as they have since.....forever.



Your staementis completely unrelated to the issue. He did not ask for his ship to not be killable. He asked for not needing to payt he collateral for failure when the failure was made by an ambush of the contractor.

That is extremely logical. You open yourself for gankg when you undock. But the guy that made the contract is protected by a magical never fail contract system

The chance to be #@!#!@# shoudl be for BOTH sides. You want to backstab him.. ok.. but do not expect him to pay what he owns you.
It's completely related because as others have pointed out, changing it will make no difference. So expect to be screwed over and use options available to avoid it.

Also I never mentioned that he wanted his ship to be unkillable. My point was that even your friends may choose to kill you and you should expect that when undocking. This time it was the maker of the contract, next time it could be his friends.

Welcome to Eve.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Anthar Thebess
#62 - 2014-02-07 12:19:27 UTC
Eve is full of this kind of exploits and alts
In this case he used the same char for gank and creating the contract.
He could use 2 different alts - and you could not even know that this was a scam.
The main rules every one in eve have to remember:
1.Don't fly what you cannot afford
2.Don't carry more in your cargo/fit than value of ships needed to gank you, or for pleasure to have your ship on killboard.

Mag's
Azn Empire
#63 - 2014-02-07 17:19:09 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Eve is full of this kind of exploits and alts
In this case he used the same char for gank and creating the contract.
He could use 2 different alts - and you could not even know that this was a scam.
The main rules every one in eve have to remember:
1.Don't fly what you cannot afford
2.Don't carry more in your cargo/fit than value of ships needed to gank you, or for pleasure to have your ship on killboard.

What exploits?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Loki Feiht
Pathfinders.
Shattered Foundations
#64 - 2014-02-08 09:47:01 UTC
Marc McIntyre Crendraven wrote:
I was recently ganked in Niarja. the thing is I was running a courier contract with a large collateral. The character that issued the contract is the one that attacked me. Now I have never complained about high sec not being safe enough because I like the sandbox element. But common sense says that if I am attacked by my own contracter than the contract should be canceled. I can understand if a different character was used to initiate the gank but this is just ridiculous.

As it currently stands, If I am doing work for a person and they decide to keep me from doing that work I am the one who has to pay for it. I'm sorry but that's a completely broken game mechanic. If you don't want your own contract completed than you should pay the price. The authorities would make you forfeit the contract. However, if it was another character who attacked then the contract issuer could claim innocence.

Nothing else in EVE really works this way, here are some examples.

I join corp, corpies attack me and I lose ISK, guess what, I can leave the corp, yay!!!

I go into low-sec and get killed, guess what, I can leave low-sec, yay!!!

I make contract with guy and give put up tons of collateral to reflect my honesty, he turns around and kills me in high sec, guess what, he gets the collateral given to him for his crime, dafug?!?!? there is no way out like other aspects of EVE.

The collateral is held by the SCC, an NPC corp, why would they give it to the criminal?


I agree, although they could easily attack you with an alt that would require more work on their part.

More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858

Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#65 - 2014-02-08 11:32:38 UTC
I agree that lore and mechanics wise it doesn't make much sense for the guy that gives you the contract and then proceeds to kill you to also take the collateral.

On the other hand though, even if this mechanic is changed then it is very easy to circumvent.

So the real answer to your problem is to always do what is needed to transport cargo safely.

And thus, you learned a valuable lesson.

I am zen.
Linkxsc162534
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#66 - 2014-02-08 17:07:56 UTC
Anomaly One wrote:

horrible idea..
one can create multiple alts to down vote his opponents and up-vote himself this is nothing different than the current bounty system completely useless way of measuring someones worth..


Then lets see you come up with a better one. Heck I thought Eve was the game of scams, in the current system theres no way to look at and judge a player's worth. At least with my idea there would be a little bit of a way to judge a players worth.

Zan Shiro wrote:


You also have the issue of players like me are really nice to friends and have broken open sealed packages on free move thier crap runs. This is a failed contract and counts against my freighter alt.

Reason I broke the contract was I'd tell peeps make the package no larger than charon at level 4 size limits. Some could not follow these simple instructions So rather than wait for for them to redo the whole contracting thing (if even online to tell them to do it) I'd break the old one, put thier assembled ships in new personal contracts that fit under level 4 size limits, do the runs needed to move it all and call it done.


Since free there were no collateral games. I go boom we all screwed lol. i am an honest player....all stuff moved and not stolen. This stat would not show that. It would show the opposite in fact.



Well I figure that your friends wouldn't be giving you crap reviews for the jobs you did now would they?
Imiarr Timshae
Funny Men In Funny Hats
#67 - 2014-02-08 20:17:52 UTC
It's like paying a deposit for your apartment only to have your landlord wreck the place and take your deposit.

CCP Logic Big smile
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#68 - 2014-02-08 21:17:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Katran Luftschreck
I think Agent 47 would agree with the OP entirely. If you're attacked by the exact same person who put up the contract, you should at the very least get a free killright on them, and a full refund on your collateral deposit.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#69 - 2014-02-08 22:05:31 UTC
From a legal point of view the contract will still be valid unless a clause is inserted to nullify the contract if the other party attacks you, as this doesn't yet exist in eve technically he did nothing wrong and you lost your collateral. Try not to be such a soft target in future, plus you can aways undock in a combat ship and get your revenge. You have the absolute freedom to do this at any time, anywhere, exercise your freedom and revel in your power.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#70 - 2014-02-08 22:29:07 UTC
This is a horrible idea because you're basically asking CCP to code, test and implement a "fix" that wouldn't fix a damn thing because 1) it is trivial to work around, making it absolutely pointless and 2) it's not even a problem to begin with

It won't stop you from seeing bait contracts, It won't make bait contracts rarer, it won't make them any more difficult.

Maybe, just maybe, you could accept your contracts with an alt, make the run at a less predictable time, double wrap so that they can't recognize you by what you're hauling and not autopilot through the <0.7 parts of the route?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#71 - 2014-02-08 22:32:15 UTC
oh and this isn't an "exploit" no matter how loudly you scream that it is

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Samuel Wess
Doomheim
#72 - 2014-02-11 18:46:18 UTC
Highsec is designed so people can grief each other and there are almost no penalties for the griefers
or tools for the victims to retaliate with the same time/effort as the attacker.

Walk into the club like "What up? I got a big cockpit!"