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Ship loss causing smart-bomb-like explosion

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hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
#1 - 2014-02-06 15:11:09 UTC
Why isn't there such a thing?

Ships exploding, whether NPC or player, should cause a smart-bomb-like explosion wave. The damage could be of the same type as the highest resist of ships of the same faction, so NPC don't just kill each other in a chain reaction. Also, it should be powerful enough to severely damage (not necessarily kill) a ship that's 2-3 classes lower than itself. The size of the explosion should vary with the ship size, just like small, medium and large smartbombs.

So frigate exploding will do very little damage, even to other frigates. A battleship exploding will do very little damage to nearby battleships and battlecruisers, but enough to cripple a destroyer or frigate.

I know there are problems with this on the face-value, but nothing a good debate can't address:
- What about drones? They will all likely die in the explosion. No idea how to circumvent that.
- What about your own pod? Right now the capsule is ejected, and then the ship blows up. Well, the explosion wave could be sent just before the capsule is ejected
- What about High-sec? Should collateral damage trigger CONCORD response or just be ignored

So why not? I am looking for a debate why this isn't a good idea.
Victor Andall
#2 - 2014-02-06 15:14:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Victor Andall
Because Nullsec Capital Battles already happen at 10% speed.

EDIT: There's also the matter of this, more often than not, not affecting anything.

So you have tons of useless server-side calculations for something that doesn't do anything.

I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?

19.08.2014 - Dinsdale gets slammed by CCP Falcon. Never forget.
Vira'li
A Place in Time and Space
#3 - 2014-02-06 15:17:24 UTC
When I started playing that's what I thought explosions would do to those around them. I am all for this idea.

- What about drones? They should die in the explosion if they are damaged enough and of the size you mentioned, however skills should be able to offset some of this.
- What about your own pod? Should be immune to the blast of course, perhaps ALL pods are immune to this feature to make it easier.
- What about High-sec? This is the only sticking point as we don't want people mass destroying ships at the Jita undocks and obliterating 100+ peeps at once. No easy "Burn x anything" from this.
Desivo Delta Visseroff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-02-06 15:23:02 UTC
Having an AOE damage effect from every ship exploding would be way too much..... But is if they did it for structures (like in that one tutorial mission) I would approve.

Example: Large POS would take out anything frigate size or below within a 5K radius and do relative damage to anything above. Make it omni damage and scaled/modified to the lowest resist, similar to the way sleepers output damage.

I was hunting for sick loot, but all I could get my hands on were 50 corpses[:|]..............[:=d]
Billy McCandless
Zacharia Explorations Group
#5 - 2014-02-06 15:27:45 UTC
CODE wood hav a grate new tule to fite tha violaters wif

i aproof ov dis produckt ore servix

"Thread locked for being deemed a total loss." - ISD Ezwal
Grayland Aubaris
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-02-06 15:40:40 UTC
I kinda like the idea but it would be too game breaking in my view:

1. People will just self destruct bs's on Jita undock to grief people in frigates
2. Smaller ships would not be able to attack and destroy larger ships, as when they do they would be destroyed along with it (if in close).
3. My drones! My precious precious drones!

If you made the explosion follow the same rules as missile explosions then smaller ships would be safer.
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#7 - 2014-02-06 15:59:12 UTC
New fleet doctrine: insured cheapest racial carrier/dread fleet without fittings is suicided into anything subcap. You put enough capitals on the field it'd be cost effective to suicide titans too...
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
#8 - 2014-02-06 16:04:28 UTC
Loraine Gess wrote:
New fleet doctrine: insured cheapest racial carrier/dread fleet without fittings is suicided into anything subcap. You put enough capitals on the field it'd be cost effective to suicide titans too...





Haha! Would be funny to watch carriers flying on collision course into enemy blob.... but i doubt there would be a sub capital fleet slow enough to not scatter from that
Vira'li
A Place in Time and Space
#9 - 2014-02-06 16:08:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Vira'li
hydraSlav wrote:


Haha! Would be funny to watch carriers flying on collision course into enemy blob.... but i doubt there would be a sub capital fleet slow enough to not scatter from that



Like you see in the movies/tv shows with the flaming wreckage colliding with and destroying not only the ship it hits, but also another one that's not too far off due to collision with wreckage from the first destruction. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwF67bhdXfk anyone?)
I Was There
Habemus
#10 - 2014-02-06 16:13:10 UTC
It's an awful idea. The sort of ideas you get when you're really bored with something.

It'd stop people from being able to use drones properly in PvP, and I doubt it'd have much effect on ships compared to the extra server load.
Silent Rambo
Orion Positronics
#11 - 2014-02-06 16:13:33 UTC
Grayland Aubaris wrote:
I kinda like the idea but it would be too game breaking in my view:

1. People will just self destruct bs's on Jita undock to grief people in frigates
2. Smaller ships would not be able to attack and destroy larger ships, as when they do they would be destroyed along with it (if in close).
3. My drones! My precious precious drones!

If you made the explosion follow the same rules as missile explosions then smaller ships would be safer.



1. This is just a liability thing. You can say if you scuttled your ship in an area with people then you are liable. same repercussions as a suicide gank.

2. This all depends on the amount of damage. Making the explosion equivalent to a large explosive smart bomb. worth 300 explosive dm, taking into account resists so maybe 150 damage is going to kill a small ship? I don't think so.

3. Even a light drone wouldn't get popped from this.

You really think someone would do that? Just log into EvE and tell lies?
Grayland Aubaris
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-02-06 16:22:01 UTC
Silent Rambo wrote:
Grayland Aubaris wrote:
I kinda like the idea but it would be too game breaking in my view:

1. People will just self destruct bs's on Jita undock to grief people in frigates
2. Smaller ships would not be able to attack and destroy larger ships, as when they do they would be destroyed along with it (if in close).
3. My drones! My precious precious drones!

If you made the explosion follow the same rules as missile explosions then smaller ships would be safer.



1. This is just a liability thing. You can say if you scuttled your ship in an area with people then you are liable. same repercussions as a suicide gank.

2. This all depends on the amount of damage. Making the explosion equivalent to a large explosive smart bomb. worth 300 explosive dm, taking into account resists so maybe 150 damage is going to kill a small ship? I don't think so.

3. Even a light drone wouldn't get popped from this.


Yes if it has smart-bomb like properties I agree, however the OP stated

Quote:
So frigate exploding will do very little damage, even to other frigates. A battleship exploding will do very little damage to nearby battleships and battlecruisers, but enough to cripple a destroyer or frigate.


Which is to what I was responding :)
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
#13 - 2014-02-06 16:31:54 UTC
Vira'li wrote:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwF67bhdXfk anyone?)


Yes please!
Othran
Route One
#14 - 2014-02-06 17:09:20 UTC
We've had splash damage before in Eve (on missiles).

It doesn't work well in any way. It hammers the server & it can be abused to hell and back (and was).
Grayland Aubaris
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2014-02-06 17:18:25 UTC
Othran wrote:
We've had splash damage before in Eve (on missiles).

It doesn't work well in any way. It hammers the server & it can be abused to hell and back (and was).


On torps I think. You couldn't use them in high sec I assume as you would be ConKordeKend.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#16 - 2014-02-06 17:53:31 UTC
CCP trounced Doomsdays because of balance. I doubt they'd want to turn every ship into one.

Mr Epeen Cool
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#17 - 2014-02-06 18:38:01 UTC
I can think of a way this idea would be a little over the top...

I can already almost solo blap an entire frig/desi fleet with 1 well timed bomb. Now, you are letting me get the rest of the fleet with the secondary AOE explosions fromt he dying ships. Now I can ge the whole fleet AND the pods with 1 bomb...

Wait...what am I saying? Make this a thing CCP. My bombing epeen requires more stroking.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Silent Rambo
Orion Positronics
#18 - 2014-02-06 18:57:49 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
I can think of a way this idea would be a little over the top...

I can already almost solo blap an entire frig/desi fleet with 1 well timed bomb. Now, you are letting me get the rest of the fleet with the secondary AOE explosions fromt he dying ships. Now I can ge the whole fleet AND the pods with 1 bomb...

Wait...what am I saying? Make this a thing CCP. My bombing epeen requires more stroking.


The OP is silly, If this was going to be a thing the explosion should cause as much damage as one smartbomb of the ship size that exploded. Scale the damage to what a capital smartbomb would do for capitals (maybe like 700 damage or something). then supers scale again (maybe like 2000). Done. Same calculations and functionality as smartbombs, almost no real new functionality to create here. Serverside calc's might go up, but then you would have more deaths to go with it, thereby lightening the load. No real way to exploit since it would be much easier to just load a ship with smartbombs if you wanted the same effect with more damage. If you really wanted to scuttle a billion dollar cap ship in highsec for less damage then a BS loaded with smartbombs then do it so we can all point and laugh.

You really think someone would do that? Just log into EvE and tell lies?
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#19 - 2014-02-06 19:02:56 UTC
No proponent of this idea stopped to think of the balance at all. Either the damage is negligible and has NO FUNCTIONAL REASON TO EXIST or the damage is non-negligible and there is always, always, always going to be a break even point where it becomes a valid tactic to simply throw ships at the enemy for their explosion damage.
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
#20 - 2014-02-06 19:23:40 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
I can think of a way this idea would be a little over the top...

I can already almost solo blap an entire frig/desi fleet with 1 well timed bomb. Now, you are letting me get the rest of the fleet with the secondary AOE explosions fromt he dying ships. Now I can ge the whole fleet AND the pods with 1 bomb...

Wait...what am I saying? Make this a thing CCP. My bombing epeen requires more stroking.


A explosion from a single dieing frigate would not do a lot of damage to other frigates. Even if the other frigates are severely damaged, the radius of the explosion will be too small, unless they are all bunched up together.

And if they are all bunched up together, then by all means they should die. I hate these ship blobs bouncing off each other. Bring on Formations!

And no matter what i tried, a single Smartbomb is not enough to kill a frigate.

See, i envision it from a completely different angle.

A bunch of frigates are attacking a lone tackled battleship. They all get in close under his guns, afterburners glaring to avoid the slow fire of his large guns.
Pilot 1: "He is into structure!"
Pilot 2: "We've got him! Wooho, my first BS kill"
Pilot 1: "Don't get too comfortable, get ready to get outside of the explosion radius"
Pilot 2: "What explosion radius?"
Fleet Commander: "Fleet get clear of the target! Pilots 3 and 4, finish it"
Pilot 2: "What explosion radius??"
Pilot 3: "Yes sir, activating railguns"
Pilot 2: "Guys? What radius???"
Pilot 4: "Target is destroyed"
Pilot 2: "Arghhhhhh *boooom* ... hey guys, there was this blue flash and i am in an egg.... did i level up?"

I want to see formations.
I want to see a mix to fleet compositions, not just all close range, but requiring long range too.
I want to see a penalty for hugging the other guy at point blank.

I am not saying "change it now to this way". This isn't even an idea for F&I section. But between what Vira'li linked, and what i just described, i think it would be cool.

Othran wrote:

We've had splash damage before in Eve (on missiles).


I didn't know that, could you tell more please? When was that removed?

I know there were even mines at one point in time, but they were removed (probably due to highsec/concord concerns)
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