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[Rubicon 1.3] Drone Assist change

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Ashrik Tyr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#501 - 2014-02-06 20:19:49 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
Please clarify yourself here. What do you mean "if this doesn't work" ?


I can't put a number on it, but currently Dominixes are responsible for somewhere in the ballpark of 5 times the PVP damage dealt of the next most popular fleet battleship, if that's still the case in a few months this will have 'not worked'.


I don't get it. How can this be a move to appease goons while at the same time nerfing the main goon fleet doctrine? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
Tiberizzle
Your Mom Heavy Industries
#502 - 2014-02-06 20:25:23 UTC
If alpha is gamebreaking, why is it okay for artillery alpha or dread alpha to break the game (bypass remote assist mechanics) and not sentry alpha?

How is prefiring F1 and ctrl-clicking the top thing out of the broadcast window more engrossing than assisting drones?

Adjust sentry drone damage projection and in particular revisit the mindboggling double down overbuffs to the Gallente drone hulls.

10 year old game mechanics should not be considered a degree of freedom in realizing whatever autistic fever dream of game balance is inspiring some of the recent changes
Charadrass
Angry Germans
#503 - 2014-02-06 20:25:26 UTC
Limiting to the Dronebuddy Bandwidth is NOT a good idea. because many fleets use battleships or different type of ships as a dronebuddy.

Limit it in General to the amount i already posted will solve all Problems and leave the normal fleets untouched.
Lavayar
Haidamaky
UA Fleets
#504 - 2014-02-06 20:25:51 UTC
good job
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#505 - 2014-02-06 20:26:36 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Joan Greywind wrote:
Well if the reason for this change is "domis having 5 times the damage of the next ship, making the meta stale", how much damage is proteuses and legions in wh compared to other ships? The meta there is deader (more dead?) than Ghenkis khan's body.


T3 have yet to be teircided.




dont use that term it ended last year with bs rebalance. as only tech I ships had tiers. so any pending changes cannot be construde as tiericide.

the term to use now is just ship rebalance.

thanks

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#506 - 2014-02-06 20:27:36 UTC
Koby Botick wrote:
It is possible to use this but you need to artifically recreate correct synchronization which is a non-trivial problem. Languages with proper multi-threading come with those build-in and (more important) tested and used facilities for this kind of work.


I agree that python places much responsibility on the developer and other languages are better suited for that kind of work. I was just pointing out that python isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

http://www.jeffknupp.com/blog/2013/06/30/pythons-hardest-problem-revisited/ has a (in my opinion) great write up of the problem and possible solutions of utilizing multiple cpu cores/processors.

Of course, Eve's codebase is 10 years old and written for Stackless, so adapting to current python versions and making use of improvements will certainly be a hard task.
Ruafo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#507 - 2014-02-06 20:28:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Ruafo
Good idea.
Finally i can play the game again.
Our Drone Bunnies were **** anyways :D

But I hate static figures.

In my opinion it should be more dynamic depending on:

  • the size/class of the ship
  • Every assisted drone should negative affect the scan resolution/targeting speed.
  • Maybe it shouldbe in generell onlly be possible to assist drones to your own squad commander.

locked-up in a pod since 2004
Dave Stark
#508 - 2014-02-06 20:29:22 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Joan Greywind wrote:
Well if the reason for this change is "domis having 5 times the damage of the next ship, making the meta stale", how much damage is proteuses and legions in wh compared to other ships? The meta there is deader (more dead?) than Ghenkis khan's body.


T3 have yet to be teircided.




dont use that term it ended last year with bs rebalance. as only tech I ships had tiers. so any pending changes cannot be construde as tiericide.

the term to use now is just ship rebalance.

thanks


t2 ships have tiers too. **** tier, and worth using tier.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#509 - 2014-02-06 20:31:06 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:


dont use that term it ended last year with bs rebalance. as only tech I ships had tiers. so any pending changes cannot be construde as tiericide.

the term to use now is just ship rebalance.

thanks


Teircide will not be finished until all ships have seen it.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#510 - 2014-02-06 20:32:03 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:

Then fix tidi. The problem is tidi, not drone assist. People afk in 6 hour tidi fights. No one sits at their computer for 6 straight hours if they don't have drones deployed.

"just rewrite the entire codebase from scratch"

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#511 - 2014-02-06 20:33:13 UTC
Tiberizzle wrote:
If alpha is gamebreaking, why is it okay for artillery alpha or dread alpha to break the game (bypass remote assist mechanics) and not sentry alpha?

How is prefiring F1 and ctrl-clicking the top thing out of the broadcast window more engrossing than assisting drones?

Adjust sentry drone damage projection and in particular revisit the mindboggling double down overbuffs to the Gallente drone hulls.

10 year old game mechanics should not be considered a degree of freedom in realizing whatever autistic fever dream of game balance is inspiring some of the recent changes


Its because with sentries you could get perfect alpha, no other fleet type can do that.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#512 - 2014-02-06 20:34:55 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
No matter which side you fall on this issue, the one positive is that CCP waited until the war ended (for all intents and purposes) before announcing the nerf.

Unless it's totally coincidental, I think the restraint in addressing the situation is commendable and both CCP and the CSM should adopt this approach! That if something needs to be addressed, but addressing it in the moment will prejudice an outcome ingame (as in sov warfare), then the better approach is to wait for the end of the situation - or at minimum a significant lull - before changing anything.



I agree. The flipside is they waited far too long to address this and it did impact the war already in HED. Everyone knew this was a problem before this war started and CCP and specifically Fozzie seemed to resist making any changes. Once it was splattered all over the server stats and we started abusing it, look a nerf.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Tiberizzle
Your Mom Heavy Industries
#513 - 2014-02-06 20:37:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberizzle
baltec1 wrote:
Tiberizzle wrote:
If alpha is gamebreaking, why is it okay for artillery alpha or dread alpha to break the game (bypass remote assist mechanics) and not sentry alpha?

How is prefiring F1 and ctrl-clicking the top thing out of the broadcast window more engrossing than assisting drones?

Adjust sentry drone damage projection and in particular revisit the mindboggling double down overbuffs to the Gallente drone hulls.

10 year old game mechanics should not be considered a degree of freedom in realizing whatever autistic fever dream of game balance is inspiring some of the recent changes


Its because with sentries you could get perfect alpha, no other fleet type can do that.


any fleet can prefire F1 and ctrl-click the first thing out of their overview

they will stack up, at the very least, on whole server ticks, and all the damage done until the first logistics is able lock from the friendly broadcast is just as "perfect" as sentry alpha, in so far as it's not possible for any remote assistance to cycle before the target is dead

the issue you are whining about is that volley bypasses remote assistance, and the koolaid you are drinking is that this is in someway unique to sentries
Jedediah Arndtz
Jedediah Arndtz Corporation
#514 - 2014-02-06 20:40:25 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hello, some news:
Why a flat cap?

We believe a flat cap will:

  • Leave room for smaller scale assisting (there are several use-cases for assist that we wanted to preserve, such as incursion drone managers)


    • Apparently Incursion fleets all run with ≤fifty drones, not, y'know, the 200 or so that 40 pilots will put out.

    Other than that bit of misinformed logic, yay cap!
    Desert Ice78
    Gryphons of the Western Wind
    #515 - 2014-02-06 20:44:17 UTC
    Ashrik Tyr wrote:
    CCP Rise wrote:
    Quote:
    Please clarify yourself here. What do you mean "if this doesn't work" ?


    I can't put a number on it, but currently Dominixes are responsible for somewhere in the ballpark of 5 times the PVP damage dealt of the next most popular fleet battleship, if that's still the case in a few months this will have 'not worked'.


    I don't get it. How can this be a move to appease goons while at the same time nerfing the main goon fleet doctrine? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm


    Because its not. Low skilled goon BS drones can still easily fit into another low-skilled doctrine, multiply by 2000 and you have a fleet.

    We've seen lots of drone doctrines over the years; four years ago people were flying sentry-domi fleets and it wasn't a problem. Gila fleet, Ishtar fleet, all of them no problem to CCP. But as soon as the wrecking-ball appeared, and the whining reached fever pitch, goon dev's ride in to save the day.

    This is only aimed at the only thing goons are scared of and crying about.

    I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

    CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
    baltec1
    Bat Country
    Pandemic Horde
    #516 - 2014-02-06 20:47:46 UTC
    Desert Ice78 wrote:
    Ashrik Tyr wrote:
    CCP Rise wrote:
    Quote:
    Please clarify yourself here. What do you mean "if this doesn't work" ?


    I can't put a number on it, but currently Dominixes are responsible for somewhere in the ballpark of 5 times the PVP damage dealt of the next most popular fleet battleship, if that's still the case in a few months this will have 'not worked'.


    I don't get it. How can this be a move to appease goons while at the same time nerfing the main goon fleet doctrine? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm


    Because its not. Low skilled goon BS drones can still easily fit into another low-skilled doctrine, multiply by 2000 and you have a fleet.

    We've seen lots of drone doctrines over the years; four years ago people were flying sentry-domi fleets and it wasn't a problem. Gila fleet, Ishtar fleet, all of them no problem to CCP. But as soon as the wrecking-ball appeared, and the whining reached fever pitch, goon dev's ride in to save the day.

    This is only aimed at the only thing goons are scared of and crying about.



    There has never been fleet fights involving as many drones as there is today.
    Tsikuu
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #517 - 2014-02-06 20:54:22 UTC
    :slowclap:

    Nerf Omnis
    Nerf Assist

    Whats next, nerf carriers drone bandwidth? remove sentry drones? What Mittani inspired whine are you going to fold to next CCP?

    How about ADDING to the game rather than the continuous folding to one section of the community who's sworn aim is to destroy the game?

    When can we expect the drone tracking and optimal implants? Thats right, when Mittens cries about it behind his pay wall.
    baltec1
    Bat Country
    Pandemic Horde
    #518 - 2014-02-06 20:55:56 UTC
    Tsikuu wrote:
    :slowclap:

    Nerf Omnis
    Nerf Assist

    Whats next, nerf carriers drone bandwidth? remove sentry drones? What Mittani inspired whine are you going to fold to next CCP?

    How about ADDING to the game rather than the continuous folding to one section of the community who's sworn aim is to destroy the game?

    When can we expect the drone tracking and optimal implants? Thats right, when Mittens cries about it behind his pay wall.


    You getting all bitter towards someone else doesn't help you. You chose to chase an overpowered mechanic.
    Sipphakta en Gravonere
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #519 - 2014-02-06 20:56:14 UTC
    Tsikuu wrote:
    How about ADDING to the game rather than the continuous folding to one section of the community who's sworn aim is to destroy the game?


    Where did Goons, The Mittani or the CFC say they want to destroy the game?
    Desert Ice78
    Gryphons of the Western Wind
    #520 - 2014-02-06 21:01:34 UTC
    baltec1 wrote:


    You getting all bitter towards someone else doesn't help you. You chose to chase an overpowered mechanic.


    Blob much?

    I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

    CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.