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[Rubicon 1.3] Drone Assist change

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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#221 - 2014-02-06 16:01:53 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
What is so sad in this whole mess is the fact that no speaks about.
Sentry drones were unloved, and unchanged, for years.
People used heavies.
No one cared about drone command.

Then along came fozzie who wiped out heavies in missions with the AI changes.
This still did not affect sentries or heavies in PvP.
Then he and his new sidekick went full-on , *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal. and with their alterations to the Domi and Ishtar turned them into death machines from insane distances, and null sec tacticians took full advantage of it.
Factor in the ability of many more people to be on-grid, courtesy of CCP's efforts, and we ended up with the cluster-**** we have today.

Now, we see sentry drones ruined for PvE, and highly restrictive limits on drone command.

Which all could have been avoided by addressing the range bonuses on the Ishtar and Domi, after it was demonstrated that the null sec groups were exploiting the design to ridiculous levels.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

Bravo.
Frygok
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#222 - 2014-02-06 16:02:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Frygok
Artcanin wrote:

N3 tears best tears


I'm actually quite happy about this change, I just wish CCP would actually take a proper look at the whole passive gameplay thing, and change more than just one symptom of it.

So basically: NERF MORE PASSIVE-ENCOURAGING MECHANICS, THANKS CCP!
Efraya
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#223 - 2014-02-06 16:03:15 UTC
As far as I can tell from this change the following will happen.

In a max fleet of 250 archons. Each of the squad leaders will have the drones assisted, IF all the squad leaders are calling primaries at their own discretions the enemy logistics will have to be really on it's toes as it will splitt the DPS of the fleet over the enemy.

This may/may not be a good thing I'm not sure.

I've never flown an archon in a slowcat fleet but I'm fairly sure they don't have their high slots fitted with 5 Drone Control Units.

Interesting change. I don't think this is a nerf to the current trend of Slow Cat fleets however. Time will tell.

[b][center]WSpace; Dead space.[/center] [center]Lady Spank for forum mod[/center][/b]
Dart Aurel
Space Roar
#224 - 2014-02-06 16:03:55 UTC
Nice change. But maybe just limit assisting to squad members? That will be more transparent mechanics as u can't see how many drones are already assisted at you.
Yhor Pita
#225 - 2014-02-06 16:03:55 UTC
1000 Bandwidth limit preserves incursions and small/med gangs, while having the desired results in large scale primary drone dedicated fleets.

Flat bandwidth should be the goal here, not the number of drones. Whether it be 1000 BW or 1250 BW.

50 total is a step in the right direction though.

o7
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#226 - 2014-02-06 16:04:38 UTC
Nice, the goon whining wins again. Good job there Rise and Fozzie, but could you even TRY to make an effort not to be so obvious?

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#227 - 2014-02-06 16:05:09 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
  • Drones, for the time being, are the most taxing weapon system for our hardware, which means overall play experience has suffered some because of the popularity of sentry doctrines.

    • Maybe you should have thought about that before you buffed a handful of ships to the point of completely obsoleting several types of fleet warfare and damage mitigation (i.e. speed/sig tanking).
    Steve Ronuken
    Fuzzwork Enterprises
    Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
    #228 - 2014-02-06 16:05:19 UTC
    Efraya wrote:
    I've never flown an archon in a slowcat fleet but I'm fairly sure they don't have their high slots fitted with 5 Drone Control Units.



    You do know you get to field an additional drone per level in Carrier, right? Without the use of DCUs?

    Woo! CSM XI!

    Fuzzwork Enterprises

    Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
    Leigh Akiga
    Kuhri Innovations
    #229 - 2014-02-06 16:06:01 UTC
    Addressing the assist is good and the omnidirectional change was a step in the right direction but the near-infinite drone bay on carriers is still a problem and sentries can still blap frigates on up to other capitals.
    Venetian Tar
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #230 - 2014-02-06 16:06:27 UTC
    Desert Ice78 wrote:
    Nice, the goon whining wins again. Good job there Rise and Fozzie, but could you even TRY to make an effort not to be so obvious?


    If this were true, would it not have been nerfed while we were getting "murderzoned" before B-R?

    I don't hate you, I'm just not necessarily excited about your existance.
    Xolve
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #231 - 2014-02-06 16:08:33 UTC
    Leigh Akiga wrote:
    Addressing the assist is good and the omnidirectional change was a step in the right direction but the near-infinite drone bay on carriers is still a problem and sentries can still blap frigates on up to other capitals.


    Near Infinite?

    Maaaate. Nobody was spending 4b on drones before this change, certainly they aren't going to start now.
    Arkived
    Royal Amarr Institute
    Amarr Empire
    #232 - 2014-02-06 16:09:16 UTC
    Please make drone assist work correct first in LS
    Mournful Conciousness
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #233 - 2014-02-06 16:11:30 UTC
    Venetian Tar wrote:
    Mournful Conciousness wrote:
    1 squad commander controlling 7000dps of fully obedient drones is still better than 1 squad commander commanding 10 humans who may miss or mistake orders.


    I take it you've never had experience with drones in this game, because they are pretty damned far from obedient.


    If the assistee fires his guns at the target after the drones have been given the order to assist him, they are 100% obedient. I have never experienced otherwise in 3 years of using drone assist (before it seemed to become fashionable).

    It's important to remember that the drones will attack:
    1. anything you operate any offensive module against - the last operation taking precedence (including webs and painters)
    2. failing that, anything that attacked the assistee after the command to assist was given.

    Each ship seems to maintain an "aggression queue" with the drones attacking aggressors in the order they aggressed the person you are assisting.

    I accept that in large engagements where there is network or cpu congestion the command may not be invoked in the server as soon as the player expects, and this might have appeared to you (before you read this post) as if the drones are disobedient.

    But this is not the case. Drones do not have any randomisation coded into their behaviour. They are 100% predictable once you take into account any latency in command execution, which is the only source of entropy between your keypress and the drone activating.


    Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
    t3hWarrior
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #234 - 2014-02-06 16:11:39 UTC
    why not making it a ship parameter?

    lets say there is a 250 man dominix fleet.
    instead of one man calling targets and assisting his drones he can pass the job to 25 people with 10 ships assigning their drones.

    he would have to call targets, but only 25 people would have to do something, 90% of the fleet wont feel the change.

    instead of making a hard cap, you could limit the drone assist per ship types, its kind of dumb that every ship class could do the same job just as effectively... right?
    Weaselior
    GoonWaffe
    Goonswarm Federation
    #235 - 2014-02-06 16:12:31 UTC
    Xolve wrote:
    Leigh Akiga wrote:
    Addressing the assist is good and the omnidirectional change was a step in the right direction but the near-infinite drone bay on carriers is still a problem and sentries can still blap frigates on up to other capitals.


    Near Infinite?

    Maaaate. Nobody was spending 4b on drones before this change, certainly they aren't going to start now.

    thats because nobody was actually going to bother to blap 500 of your drones so why bother adding more

    if people could blap 500 you would have added more

    Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
    Tara Read
    Blackwater USA Inc.
    Pandemic Horde
    #236 - 2014-02-06 16:13:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Tara Read
    Oh Takashawa wrote:
    CCP Rise wrote:
  • Affect carriers more heavily than sub-caps (because they can field 10 drones per ship rather than 5)
    • Can we take this as a sign, then, that CCP holds the opinion that capitals should offer even fewer advantages to offset the increased cost, effort, risk, and skills required to effectively field them, as compared to simply fielding big piles of subcaps?

    Also, a broader question - do you intend to leave any force multipliers in EVE, Rise, or simply reduce it to whoever has more dudes in T1 subcaps, or alternatively, in bombers? It seems to be trending a lot that way lately, and I'm just curious if that's intentional or simply persistent oversight.



    I think i'll bite with this one. By "advantage" you mean due to what exactly? If you are saying a Capital should be impervious to a larger force picking at it say an Archon or a Nyx then you fail to grasp even the basic concepts of combat. Numerical advantage (no matter by whom) is typically how larger engagements are won if we are going by sheer attrition.

    BR is an excellent example of what "could" have happened had more sub capitals been able to enter system and yes even the potential risk for drone doctrines to be used that may have possibly resulted in yet another node crash. Had sub capital engagements taken place inside BR (and not in outer staging systems) with the typical drone doctrines currently encouraged, the battle would probably not have been what it was due to server side issues or worse the node crashing.

    But this is a trivial point and one we all know and understand. Furthermore you as a much vaunted "elite" PL pilot should more than understand the basic concept of risk in Eve. Why it's Eve 101 that whenever you undock or "log in" your precious Nyx or that shiny Revenant that you do risk losing said assets...

    The balance of Capital vs Sub Capital is fine and CCP will once again rebalance Capitals to keep them in line with the changing sub caps. In fact I dare say Capitals will probably be buffed in some regard putting them in line with your concept of such ships being well worth the quote: "cost, effort, risk, and "skills" you stated earlier.

    I also chuckle a little at you whining about "piles" of sub caps being fielded in combat. Much can be equally said about PL fielding "piles" of Supers and other Capitals at the drop of a hat. I however think these changes are long overdue and welcome them.

    Thanks CCP Pirate
    Steve Ronuken
    Fuzzwork Enterprises
    Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
    #237 - 2014-02-06 16:13:57 UTC
    Arkived wrote:
    Please make drone assist work correct first in LS



    What doesn't work right? For those of us who haven't run into it.

    Woo! CSM XI!

    Fuzzwork Enterprises

    Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
    iskflakes
    #238 - 2014-02-06 16:14:43 UTC
    supercapitals-online
    warm-bodies-online

    Are any new force multipliers planned to fight massed battleships?

    -
    Weaselior
    GoonWaffe
    Goonswarm Federation
    #239 - 2014-02-06 16:16:23 UTC
    iskflakes wrote:
    supercapitals-online
    warm-bodies-online

    Are any new force multipliers planned to fight massed battleships?

    bombers

    not our fault you're bad at them

    Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
    Valearx
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #240 - 2014-02-06 16:16:39 UTC
    GSF keeping the game fair and balanced for the rest of you poors.

    You can thank us later.

    Cool