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[Rubicon 1.3] Drone Assist change

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Powers Sa
#181 - 2014-02-06 15:37:29 UTC
Frygok wrote:


And seriously, how is Shift-click, press F1, wait 10 minutes in any way, shape or form less passive than the Ishtar/Domi sentry fleets where you assign drones, then tackle and a hostile and go afk 10 minutes? The first argument in the Dev post is that they want to move away from passive gameplay. How is having 1 person probing down the hostile fleet, warping the entire fleet to said hostile fleet, broacasting all the targets neeeded encouraging active gameplay for the individual pilots?

Yay, we fixed drones. Now the battles in 10% Tidi requires you to press 1 more button in Baltec, Proteus, Eagle or whateverfleet, and then go afk, due to the fact that 1 individual basically can run the entire fleet, except for the 2 clicks with a mouse.

How awesome and revolutionary this will be for the actual activity of individual pilots in fleet fights!

Probing a good warpin and acting on that can win or lose a fight.
Assiting your drones or hitting f1 at the right time isn't anywhere near the same thing.

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Nami Alden
Tierce Inc.
#182 - 2014-02-06 15:37:44 UTC
Abernie wrote:
Nami Alden wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

Why 50?

To arrive at 50 we began by starting at complete removal of assist, and worked our way back up until we had caught all the use-cases for assist that we didn't want to impact negatively. That included frigates on gates trying to catch cloakers, small fleets trying to use assist to avoid e-war, logistics pilots who are too busy to manage their drones, and most importantly, incursioners. We believe 50 will leave all these uses unharmed while also heavily discouraging large fleet use.


No, no you haven't. 50 is not even enough for a typical VG fleet (12 pilots) and certainly not for an HQ with 40 pilots.

Just make the assist depend on drone bandwidth. That way you can limit alpha with sentries which can be considered main weapon while not interfering with light drones which are used as secondary damage application.

1250 bandwidth and this change is at least reasonable.

2 people have to take care of their own drones. ISK/h ruined. -17 accounts. Thanks CCP.

Also having to do math on 17 lights+ 12 mediums + 3 heavies + 11 sentries sounds like so much fun.


Oh no. 2nd grade math too hard. Better make it dumbed down for newbies. Or maybe the damage of 250 light drones troubles your sleep?

Having 4 drone bunnies instead of 1 does make it an unnecessary hassle and a significant loss of damage by those vindies.
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises
Goonswarm Federation
#183 - 2014-02-06 15:38:09 UTC
Just after spending the last two months training drones skills, I am less then two days from T2 sentries.

Can I have my skill points back, please CCP?

or

Since I will not be using T2 sentries now.

PLEX for Removal of Unwanted/Unused Skills

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#184 - 2014-02-06 15:38:52 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
Please clarify yourself here. What do you mean "if this doesn't work" ?


I can't put a number on it, but currently Dominixes are responsible for somewhere in the ballpark of 5 times the PVP damage dealt of the next most popular fleet battleship, if that's still the case in a few months this will have 'not worked'.


Putting my neck on the block here I'm calling "not worked" now.

1 squad commander controlling 7000dps of fully obedient drones is still better than 1 squad commander commanding 10 humans who may miss or mistake orders.

The Dominix drone assist doctrine will still be the most viable fleet doctrine.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#185 - 2014-02-06 15:39:22 UTC
Don't ship this without fixing fighters. It's cool for subcaps but kills carriers as a counter against subcaps
Artcanin
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#186 - 2014-02-06 15:39:29 UTC
Rathunterka wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Hello, some news:

We've watched the discussion in the community evolve and also kept a close eye on TQ behavior.

As always, leave your feedback and we will do our best to answer any questions.



Well, kill2... no.
The socalled discussion was a number of unhappy whiny players, that were doctrinated to belive theyr own lies after a while, crying out loud because the game didnt allow them to win, despite having more ppl in fleets.
The drone assist carrier was founded and used to counter 250 celestis with 4damps locking beyond 200km in huge fleet fights.
Players addapted... using 100x expensier ships (20m celestis 2b carrier)

Im cool with you and fozzie nerfing everything the second masses start to cry. Its notning new after all... but your reasoning for doing so is just absurd.


lol
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#187 - 2014-02-06 15:40:23 UTC
It was too simple to command a fleet with drone assist, with this there is some complication similar to using any other weapon systems when used on a larger scale.

So the change makes sense.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
Higgs Foton
Mission And Mining Inc
#188 - 2014-02-06 15:40:52 UTC
Anyway, i approve of this change. I though the domi being a stupid ship already and i was **** bored in one with this drone assist. I even did bring a cane to fleets now and then so i could at least shoot the bombers.
Zi'el Aubaris
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#189 - 2014-02-06 15:42:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Zi'el Aubaris
Oh man, the tears, the beautiful tears from N3NCpl now their "instant: I Win" button other than supers (what's left of them) has been destroyed.

CCP Hazing Nerds at its finest.


edit: real fake edit: *pl not PL
Artcanin
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#190 - 2014-02-06 15:43:13 UTC
Demotress wrote:
While you are at it, why not switch the name of the game to goons get what they want online. After all every time they tell you to change something, you do it. Nerf needed or not.


lol
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#191 - 2014-02-06 15:43:32 UTC
Frygok wrote:
I don't care much for drone doctrines, so personally I don't get too fuzzed about this. However, what makes me annoyed is that you seem incredibly keen on nerfing symptoms, rather than actual issues.

Letting one person control the combined drones of an entire fleet is bad. Okay, fair enough. But why oh why, is it absolutely fine for one person in the entire fleet be the prober, the fleet warper and the broadcaster of targets for the entire fleet? How is that in any way different from drone assisting, in terms of what is required of a player? Oh no, you have to shift+clik and push F1, mad skills there!

If you really wanted to make players more involved in these fights, you would put more responsibility on the individual pilot, for instance removing fleet warp and broadcasting targets, and only being able to warp/broadcast to your own wing.

I would think that changing how fleets work altogether should be the goal, to require more pilot involvement, but instead you are trying to cure underlying mechanics by putting on a bandaid on the most superficial wound. It is the exact same pattern as with the changes to supers vs. the underlying problem of sov mechanics and too easy movement of big fleets.


The probers I have no issues with actually to me it's no different from someone flying AWAX. But Broadcasting the targets are similiar to already existing battlefield techniques of calling a bunker for shelling or any other target where massive payload needs delivery.

As for the Fleet Warping.. It's convenient BUT It's my damn Ship and only I should be warping it. Personally I get irked when being told to align to a target and the Wc/FC already warped us ahead to the location because they already knew were we where going. I fully believe pilots should be paying attention to whats going on ( i know lots of distractions I have a 6month old daughter). But Natural selection. If I didn't hear the call either from shitting up coms or an RL factor it adds more danger to the game. Let me the player.. the pilot of my ship.. Warp my own damn ship.
Frygok
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#192 - 2014-02-06 15:44:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Frygok
Powers Sa wrote:
Frygok wrote:


And seriously, how is Shift-click, press F1, wait 10 minutes in any way, shape or form less passive than the Ishtar/Domi sentry fleets where you assign drones, then tackle and a hostile and go afk 10 minutes? The first argument in the Dev post is that they want to move away from passive gameplay. How is having 1 person probing down the hostile fleet, warping the entire fleet to said hostile fleet, broacasting all the targets neeeded encouraging active gameplay for the individual pilots?

Yay, we fixed drones. Now the battles in 10% Tidi requires you to press 1 more button in Baltec, Proteus, Eagle or whateverfleet, and then go afk, due to the fact that 1 individual basically can run the entire fleet, except for the 2 clicks with a mouse.

How awesome and revolutionary this will be for the actual activity of individual pilots in fleet fights!

Probing a good warpin and acting on that can win or lose a fight.
Assiting your drones or hitting f1 at the right time isn't anywhere near the same thing.


Ah great, I wrote a long-winded reply to this, and forums ate it :(
Powers Sa
#193 - 2014-02-06 15:44:51 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
Don't ship this without fixing fighters. It's cool for subcaps but kills carriers as a counter against subcaps

That's the point

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
ArmyOfMe
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#194 - 2014-02-06 15:45:14 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Sort Dragon wrote:
Crysantos Callahan wrote:
So we just use 5x Wing leaders with drone assists on them for a full fleet?

Just saying...


Sigh learn to read.

And ffs you are in my alliance too.


Don't feel bad, there are people in INIT. who unironically think that removing AoE doomsday was wrong. It just goes to show.
Tbh, there are times when i see 3-4k ppl in a fleet fight that i wish there still was a AoE dd

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.
Venetian Tar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#195 - 2014-02-06 15:45:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Venetian Tar
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
1 squad commander controlling 7000dps of fully obedient drones is still better than 1 squad commander commanding 10 humans who may miss or mistake orders.


I take it you've never had experience with drones in this game, because they are pretty damned far from obedient.

I don't hate you, I'm just not necessarily excited about your existance.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#196 - 2014-02-06 15:46:29 UTC
sounds pretty good, now you can think that approx one squad can be assist drones so at least squad leaders have to do something.
Boogie Jones
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#197 - 2014-02-06 15:46:58 UTC
*golfclap*

CptBen: this was the rare nice CptBen, ill probably be back later and boogie will agravate me and ill call you all scrubs
Leigh Akiga
Kuhri Innovations
#198 - 2014-02-06 15:47:41 UTC
Looking forward to flying spaceships in space and shooting people with guns again. These last 6 months of drone assist blobs were some dark days for large fleet pvp.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#199 - 2014-02-06 15:50:58 UTC
Kyt Thrace wrote:
Just after spending the last two months training drones skills, I am less then two days from T2 sentries.

Can I have my skill points back, please CCP?

or

Since I will not be using T2 sentries now.

PLEX for Removal of Unwanted/Unused Skills


I was like you at the beggining, I told myself Hey why not train for a weapon type that once activated I don't have to worry about micromanaging, because eh, it would be a shame if I had to be at my keyboard to be good at this game right?... Or not.

If the fact that you can only assit 50 (FIFTY OMG that's still a lot!) drones to someone is rendering sentrys useless to you, it only means that this mechanic has been left broken for WAY TOO LONG.

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Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#200 - 2014-02-06 15:52:16 UTC
so when we getting a hard cap on power projection? should there not be deminishing returns when you have over 2k people shooting one frig?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.