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CCP - I'm on my knees begging for an update on Factional Warfare

First post First post
Author
Avila Cracko
#21 - 2011-11-10 10:45:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Avila Cracko
ok... i dont know anything about FW... and writing this from no FW member point of view... Attention
but i have one guy i know thats starting EVE and i have one question from my NOOB side... Idea

Noobs dont know that FW exist untill they read forums and things like that... thats wrong.
FW members are military... and that we should see and have feeling of it... Idea

- when ship skins are coming... i would like that they get free FW skins for ships (they cant sell it and when they leave FW they need to return it)... that way wee see our military members...

- and can you make that we can see military members in overview and/or local (marked with some color/sign) so that we know in space that we just fly by one of ours soldiers.



give us a feeling that our army exists. Attention

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#22 - 2011-11-10 10:45:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Hirana Yoshida
Content removed due to OP misplaced sense of entitlement.
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#23 - 2011-11-10 11:05:45 UTC
CCP Konflikt wrote:
No promises here.... but our team, Team Pink Zombie Kittens, is currently working on a CSM Request for Faction Warfare in this winter expansion, it's still being worked on and there's a chance we may not get to finish it this expansion but it will get done. I don't want to say what it is yet, but i hope you guys will like it, when it hits sisi. it's a small change that i hope will shake up the FW scene a little.

(I know this doesn't really say too much, but I wanted you all to know it's on our programmer's screens atm.)


IF its removing the navy from high sec, then you just made FW worse. I don't wanna see 14 Minnies sat outside Amarr station playing station games. Station Games are what bad pvpers do when they stop learning how to really pvp.

So "IF" thats they small change, trash it please.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.

Garia666
CyberShield Inc
HYDRA RELOADED
#24 - 2011-11-10 11:11:02 UTC
if you want real faction warfare join red vs blue.. they got there **** on order and have great fun.
ccp made it then abbandon it.
Uppsy Daisy
Perkone
Caldari State
#25 - 2011-11-10 11:16:26 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
usual Goon jibber-jabber


There have been plenty of threads on Factional Warfare content and the lack there-of over the years. If you were remotely interested in Factional Warfare, you would have read them.

My intention was not to request or suggest content, it was to illicit an update on what CCP's plans are for the Winter Expansion, given that the CEO publically committed to there being changes to Factional War.

I seem to have succeeded.
NeoTheo
Dark Materials
#26 - 2011-11-10 11:38:19 UTC
sYnc Vir wrote:
CCP Konflikt wrote:
No promises here.... but our team, Team Pink Zombie Kittens, is currently working on a CSM Request for Faction Warfare in this winter expansion, it's still being worked on and there's a chance we may not get to finish it this expansion but it will get done. I don't want to say what it is yet, but i hope you guys will like it, when it hits sisi. it's a small change that i hope will shake up the FW scene a little.

(I know this doesn't really say too much, but I wanted you all to know it's on our programmer's screens atm.)


IF its removing the navy from high sec, then you just made FW worse. I don't wanna see 14 Minnies sat outside Amarr station playing station games. Station Games are what bad pvpers do when they stop learning how to really pvp.

So "IF" thats they small change, trash it please.




Dont agree. FW atm (like the rest of lowsec) rewards blobbing. Making FW viable in empire would improve the game 500%. I want to be vulnerable when i am missioning in motsu to greater extent than i am now. Also, if they stop you being able to dock in enemy stations - station games are some what limited.


Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2011-11-10 12:18:32 UTC
NeoTheo wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
CCP Konflikt wrote:
No promises here.... but our team, Team Pink Zombie Kittens, is currently working on a CSM Request for Faction Warfare in this winter expansion, it's still being worked on and there's a chance we may not get to finish it this expansion but it will get done. I don't want to say what it is yet, but i hope you guys will like it, when it hits sisi. it's a small change that i hope will shake up the FW scene a little.

(I know this doesn't really say too much, but I wanted you all to know it's on our programmer's screens atm.)


IF its removing the navy from high sec, then you just made FW worse. I don't wanna see 14 Minnies sat outside Amarr station playing station games. Station Games are what bad pvpers do when they stop learning how to really pvp.

So "IF" thats they small change, trash it please.




Dont agree. FW atm (like the rest of lowsec) rewards blobbing. Making FW viable in empire would improve the game 500%. I want to be vulnerable when i am missioning in motsu to greater extent than i am now. Also, if they stop you being able to dock in enemy stations - station games are some what limited.




I have done some FW in the past and last time I checked you can cap sites with a speed-tanked tech-1 frigate.

This is not what I think of when I envision a game mechanic that "rewards blobbing".

Chewing through millions of hit points of stationary structures as part of the sovereignty system? That rewards blobbing.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#28 - 2011-11-10 12:33:45 UTC
NeoTheo wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
CCP Konflikt wrote:
No promises here.... but our team, Team Pink Zombie Kittens, is currently working on a CSM Request for Faction Warfare in this winter expansion, it's still being worked on and there's a chance we may not get to finish it this expansion but it will get done. I don't want to say what it is yet, but i hope you guys will like it, when it hits sisi. it's a small change that i hope will shake up the FW scene a little.

(I know this doesn't really say too much, but I wanted you all to know it's on our programmer's screens atm.)


IF its removing the navy from high sec, then you just made FW worse. I don't wanna see 14 Minnies sat outside Amarr station playing station games. Station Games are what bad pvpers do when they stop learning how to really pvp.

So "IF" thats they small change, trash it please.




Dont agree. FW atm (like the rest of lowsec) rewards blobbing. Making FW viable in empire would improve the game 500%. I want to be vulnerable when i am missioning in motsu to greater extent than i am now. Also, if they stop you being able to dock in enemy stations - station games are some what limited.




You're already at risk in high sec, no need to change it at all. Removing the Navy and allowing free roam to the enemy doesn't make one bit of sense. Not from a pvp or story point of view. High sec killing should be for the skilled pilot.

Are you really going to think its fun when 20 Drams warp into you're mission and laugh as they kill you? Wheres the skill in that? All it would do is move the blob roams to were you have your overpriced mission boat. Once you can't make isk you'll just drop.

FW needs more people moving into the low sec areas, not making it possible to spread the limit numbers there are now even thinner.

As for Docking in enemies station. I know at lease 2 corps that do this right now. If thats the change then tie it into Sov.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.

Black Dranzer
#29 - 2011-11-10 12:39:44 UTC
Faction Warfare needs incentivization more than anything else. Making Navy NPCs not shoot you would just make everything sort of Generic, like an opt-in PvP flag, until you do enough damage to the enemy navies to make them pissed off at you, so they just start shooting at you in their space anyway, and then you're back to square one.
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#30 - 2011-11-10 12:58:10 UTC  |  Edited by: ITTigerClawIK
CCP Konflikt wrote:
No promises here.... but our team, Team Pink Zombie Kittens, is currently working on a CSM Request for Faction Warfare in this winter expansion, it's still being worked on and there's a chance we may not get to finish it this expansion but it will get done. I don't want to say what it is yet, but i hope you guys will like it, when it hits sisi. it's a small change that i hope will shake up the FW scene a little.

(I know this doesn't really say too much, but I wanted you all to know it's on our programmer's screens atm.)


Small change? the whole thing needs a complete overhaull. the currant system is terrable, most folks dont even know there is actually a war going on between the factions, its more a cold war than anything, there is no effect on any of the empires for what goes on, the Amarr militia can not push on towards matar and tkae it even if they wanted to ( although i think that they really should) so come on get a finger out and do something worth while that reminds us the factions are at war and not make it feel like some glorified PvP arena with some extra LP.

Edit: Also what happened to allowing alliances to join in FW?
Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#31 - 2011-11-10 13:23:41 UTC
ITTigerClawIK wrote:
Small change? the whole thing needs a complete overhaull. the currant system is terrable, most folks dont even know there is actually a war going on between the factions, its more a cold war than anything, there is no effect on any of the empires for what goes on, the Amarr militia can not push on towards matar and tkae it even if they wanted to ( although i think that they really should) so come on get a finger out and do something worth while that reminds us the factions are at war and not make it feel like some glorified PvP arena with some extra LP.
Different level, really. What you want is more backstory effects for FW. That's a different level than wanting game mechanics changes to make FW more interesting.


The one small change to really shake up FW would be to remove the post-DT plex redistribution. But I'm not holding my breath on that one.

Another small change that would improve FW considerably would be to treat faction ships the same as T2 ships for complexes, i.e. no faction frigs in minors, no faction cruisers in mediums, etc.

A third small change that would be really good for FW would be to remove NPCs from complexes and require a minimum ship size to run the timer (i.e. frig in minor, cruiser in medium, BC in major, BS in unrestricted).


Removing faction NPCs in high-sec would just mean even more trade hub camps with neutral logistics, which is about as exciting as picking your nose. Would work better if hostiles were not allowed to dock at all in high-sec, but that still doesn't lead to exciting pvp. But it really just disincentivizes joining FW in the first place.

Docking rights or station service changes would be interesting. Depends a lot on how they would do it.
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#32 - 2011-11-10 14:51:49 UTC
Off topic posts removed. Please stay on topic, thank you.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#33 - 2011-11-10 15:53:18 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
I was very excited when 'Factional Warfare' was one of the titles in CCP Hilmar's devblog.

I have watched with excitement as the Winter Expansion feature set has grown and grown, it really looks like CCP has gone back to their roots and are delivering some great stuff.

It really is very exciting!

But Factional Warfare is the reason I log in to play everyday.

Please, please, please can we get something, just a quick sentence, from a dev to update us on whether the promised updates to Factional Warfare are:

- In the expansion, and therefore probably in a dev blog we just haven't seen yet
- Going the same way as Assualt Frigates i.e. 'we want to do something, can't squeeze it in, but will try to do something soon'
- Have been cut.

Just a little teeny response, that all I need.....

Yours grovelingly,

Uppsy Daisy



Let me ask you a question, not at all intended to be trolling but a sincere inquiry. If you and other people are still so devoted to Factional Warfare to such an extent that it is "the reason I log in to play everyday," then what evidence is there to present to CCP that something needs to be done about it with regards to assigning development resources? Keep in mind that CCP, hf is a relatively small game company and that they have a finite number of employees working finite hours on specific projects. If you are happy with Factional Warfare, then this sends the message that the present content is sufficient. If your goal is to get more content added to it, then wouldn't it be more beneficial for you to extol how lacking in content it is? While it may be true that no one enjoys someone who constantly complains, it is also true that a complete lack of complaint is synonymous to silent endorsement.


Let me recast your argument into a syllogism:

Lots of Goons log on every day
Goons are based in 0.0
If 0.0 is good enough for Goons to log in, 0.0 does not need fixing

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#34 - 2011-11-10 17:04:48 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:

Let me ask you a question, not at all intended to be trolling but a sincere inquiry. If you and other people are still so devoted to Factional Warfare to such an extent that it is "the reason I log in to play everyday," then what evidence is there to present to CCP that something needs to be done about it with regards to assigning development resources?


Thanks, Lyris, an excellent question. I can't speak for Uppsy, but I'd be happy to answer from my own perspective. I am one of the many “born and bred” pilots who learned the game flying for the militia, and have been entertained long enough to still be around in the Faction Warfare scene despite it being “abandoned” by CCP. I’ve placed alts in nullsec alliances, and done PvP in nullsec, as well as do my fair share of highsec ice mining for POS fuel and a few brief months of level 4’s before I moved to lowsec and never looked back. So I’ve had a broad experience in EvE, and I strive to avoid tunnel vision when it comes to FW. I value all three sectors of Eve’s gameplay – nullsec, lowsec, and highsec, and ultimately see a balance of all three as the key to keeping the game strong and vibrant.

Faction Warfare exists really on two levels – there is the mechanics, and there is the community. Same as nullsec – there is sovereignty mechanics, and resources out there (Sanctums, Havens, etc), but those are separate from the body of players that write the stories, define the action, and make it a full experience. One cannot exist without the other. As you have witnessed in nullsec, stagnation in mechanics or broken systems can bleed over into stagnation in player attitude and player activity, and cause boredom and dissatisfaction that kills the drive to continually fight and compete. Whether you’re talking about FW, or nullsec sov mechanics – it’s the same principle. The game mechanics provide a skeleton for the players to flesh out with their own actions and activities.

Faction Warfare has an excellent community – top notch PvP talent, creative roleplayers, bloggers, storytellers, excellent FC’s and tacticians, and many fighters who take the initiative to go and find their own fights. We don’t have call to arms – every pilot is expected to think independently and learn how to defend themselves whether solo roaming, in a gang, or in a large fleet. I’ve truly come to appreciate the talent level in the militias – it has progressed monumentally from the “newbie PvP” reputation that stuck with it for years, and remains to this day. Outsiders don’t see this, and I get that. You’ll just have to trust us, or come find us and fight for yourself to see.

However, just like nullsec, old, broken, unattended mechanics have weakened and arguably broken the skeleton around which all that fun can be had. The community has been great, and kept FW running on fumes for years now, but its time to throw gasoline on the fire again. FW could be a lot of things – a haven for small gang warfare (which is a MUCH greater test of pilot skill than flying a BS in a hundred man fleet, or flying a supercap – both of which most of us find incredibly dull), it could be a training ground for new players who want to PvP without bubblecamps complicating their ability to casually roam and find fights, It provides a primary “food source” for lowsec piracy corps and alliances to build their gameplay around, and gives roleplayers a place to channel their efforts in a meaningful, non-arbitrary fashion.

All of these potential benefits are killed by the current mission / complex system, which only gives the opportunity to change sov right after downtime, instead of round the clock plexing availability. Only a small fraction of the community even participates in the core FW mechanic, and its sadly timezone specific – for most of us its just a giant static wardec to provide a concentrated bunch of targets to shoot and have fun with. The other major problem is the missions, which in some respect provide pvp (having them appear on overview is great for baiting fights) but sadly the AI is broken enough that it encourages farming. Thus, FW is filled with alts who use the rewards of FW (LP) not to keep them shipped up and fighting for their faction, but for pure wealth to be taken outside the community. Simple mission changes could require gang work to complete them, and encourage group on group activity, instead of just slicers chasing hounds, which gets old very fast.

Some advocate a sweeping overhaul of FW, but many of us don’t even think that’s necessary to start seeing growth. Incursion style sovereignty consequences would be 3pic, but I realize that’s a lot of resources to dedicate to a minority community. However, there are many simpler fixes that can refresh the activity level, re-establish FW as the king of small-fleet pew pew, and break us free from farming alts and the boredom of plexing. I truly believe that there is a huge “bang for your buck” factor in FW, in that some effort from CCP will go a long way towards getting more subscriptions reactivated, and making lowsec vibrant and busy once again. I, and others here, are just the noisy ones willing to keep yapping, but there are silent thousands who simply gave up because they think CCP and the CSM gave up as well. I think that if FW changes are actually implemented, you’ll see the appreciation shown from far more than just the vocal ones on the forums.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#35 - 2011-11-10 17:05:17 UTC
Faction Warfare is not special. Those who say that are right. But the argument that “you’ve had fun this far, why should be bother to fix it” could be used universally about any player request for improvement. CCP could have responded to the players by saying “you’re all still playing EvE, it can’t be that bad right?? Look – we see Gallente ships flying and dying on killboards everyday, they must not be broken. You’re all still using POS’s right? Why should we fix them?” but they chose instead to take time to listen, and I think you’ll see a huge payoff in terms of subs come winter expansion. Same with FW. A lot of players have left the game because something they loved went ignored, and would come back if FW was fixed – they’re just not all on the forums saying so. Its for them that I personally have taken so much time to get the scene roaring again like it did when it was fresh and new. The excitement surrounding FW was fresh when I started playing, and its what got me hooked on EvE. I want to provide that excitement to other players as well. An old grudge-match between bittervets is fun for the bittervets, but I want to see it made fun again for the new players and die-hards alike, the way it was originally designed to function.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#36 - 2011-11-10 17:15:01 UTC
CCP Konflikt wrote:
No promises here.... but our team, Team Pink Zombie Kittens, is currently working on a CSM Request for Faction Warfare in this winter expansion, it's still being worked on and there's a chance we may not get to finish it this expansion but it will get done. I don't want to say what it is yet, but i hope you guys will like it, when it hits sisi. it's a small change that i hope will shake up the FW scene a little.

(I know this doesn't really say too much, but I wanted you all to know it's on our programmer's screens atm.)



Thank you so much Konflikt, every snippet of CCP response means a lot to us in the community. We're prone to assuming the worst, so this is great news. I'm excited to hear that FW change is not a myth, and to receive confirmation that its actually on someone's desk. Don't be a stranger here, definitely check in with us and lets us know how its coming along! We'd be thrilled to see a Dev Blog if someone in your team has the time to spare for it and you're far enough along you feel comfortable sharing.
At least now everyone can relax that FW is not some "hot potato" that CCP refuses to touch.

Also, I feel better knowing that "Team Pink Zombie Kittens" is working on FW. They sound much more badass than "Best Friends Forever".

Zombies FTW.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Uppsy Daisy
Perkone
Caldari State
#37 - 2011-11-10 17:31:31 UTC
Thanks Hans, a very good set of posts. I did reply to the Goon, but I did get cross with all their meta-gaming and my post was deleted by CCP.

I am just that my begging has finally got a response, and that something is coming.
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#38 - 2011-11-10 17:41:29 UTC
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
Thanks Hans, a very good set of posts. I did reply to the Goon, but I did get cross with all their meta-gaming and my post was deleted by CCP.

I am just that my begging has finally got a response, and that something is coming.


That something that is a small change that will "shake up" fw? Yup.

Sounds like we are getting the long awaited feature that every person in FW has been asking for, access to enemy high sec.

BTW, if this get confirmed...EvilEvilEvil... then we need someone to go to that god damn summit who actually knows about fw.

I has all the eve inactivity

sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#39 - 2011-11-10 18:34:00 UTC
Karl Planck wrote:
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
Thanks Hans, a very good set of posts. I did reply to the Goon, but I did get cross with all their meta-gaming and my post was deleted by CCP.

I am just that my begging has finally got a response, and that something is coming.


That something that is a small change that will "shake up" fw? Yup.

Sounds like we are getting the long awaited feature that every person in FW has been asking for, access to enemy high sec.

BTW, if this get confirmed...EvilEvilEvil... then we need someone to go to that god damn summit who actually knows about fw.


hope that was ironic

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#40 - 2011-11-10 18:37:08 UTC
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
Thanks Hans, a very good set of posts. I did reply to the Goon, but I did get cross with all their meta-gaming and my post was deleted by CCP.

I am just that my begging has finally got a response, and that something is coming.


And thank YOU for stooping to a level I had refused to - someone had to unhinge the jaw and assume the prayer position. Its just hilarious that it took that much blatant grovelling to finally get what 15 other 30-page threads couldn't - a simple confirmation that a FW change (I wont use plural until they do) is actively being programmed.

I personally don't bear much animosity towards the goons - they're just working to improve the game too, in their own way. Or they're just having fun burning **** to the ground, fine too if you ask me, its a game. Even if you believe that they are basically the EvE version of the illuminati, at least you could argue that their metagaming got so out of control that they successfully meta-gamed CCP itself. It doesnt surprise me that in a game about corporate power, players adapted and learned to use that power on the corporation that made the game. if the winter expansion is the result, than Faction warfare improvements or not, huge props to Mittani and the rest of CSM for finally getting the player-demanded fixes underway.

And I dont think he really was trolling, I think if you moved out to nullsec early enough in the game and stayed out there, I think I would be equally as confused about Faction Warfare, and why people are simultaneously saying its great but needs to be fixed. I'd also probably wonder who actually does it, because it hasn't been given any CCP publicity (most likely because it draws attention to the lack of attention theyve given it).

But yeah, I've lashed out too before. It just stems from my intense love for my friends and enemies within the FW community, and my genuine belief that the feature has tremendous merit and potential for the game in general, if the players are listened to.

I'm looking forward to the change - hopefully its not highsec NPC removal. You can't expand a war that's already grown stale. You expand station games and hub camping, and make life hell for younger players learning to PvP. Keep FW in lowsec, the noobs will learn better habits and tactics out there. I'm crossing my fingers that the developers have been listening when we've told them why that would be a bad move, and the details of the other, more pressing changes that need to be made first.


CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary