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Why freighter bumping in High Sec is an exploit

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Emiko Rowna
Keys To The Stars
#281 - 2014-02-11 03:18:28 UTC
Travasty Space wrote:
Mu-Shi Ai wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
It's not being used in an unintended way.


So CCP introduced the bumping mechanic specifically so that gankers would be able to perma-bump freighters in high-sec instead of having to aggress (and get blown up by CONCORD) for using a point? Interesting analysis.


Perma bumping titans and such is allowed on the same permise.



When was the last time you bumped a titan to avoid CONCORD? Do tell
Emiko Rowna
Keys To The Stars
#282 - 2014-02-11 05:22:24 UTC
I will state right here and now that I believe the bumping of a freighter with the intent of holding it in place while your fiends arrive to perform the gank is an exploit. Here are the reasons why.

1. The only reason you bump is to avoid the wrath of CONCORD.

2. There are other ways to hold a ship in place, all of which come at a cost in training time and equipment. If bumping is allowed to replace the need for this training and equipment the bumper has the advantage of now being able to forgo the needed equipment and fill that slot with something else. This in effect will unbalance the ship by giving it the ability of the modules skipped over and the ones used in their stead.

3. Every intended mechanic has a counter and this does not. Don’t even try to say bring friends, as that is not a counter to any mechanic other than being out numbered. When was the last time you told someone asking how to fight a faster ship to bring friends?

4. There is no skill to train for bumping nor to counter bumping.

In the end it comes down to this, you are bumping to achieve the same results or better with no training time or investment in equipment that is achieved by a player that makes those investments. You are doing this with the solo intent to avoid the wrath of CONCORD that the player who has trained and bought the equipment is subject to.
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#283 - 2014-02-11 07:50:27 UTC
Emiko Rowna wrote:
1. The only reason you bump is to avoid the wrath of CONCORD.

2. There are other ways to hold a ship in place, all of which come at a cost in training time and equipment. If bumping is allowed to replace the need for this training and equipment the bumper has the advantage of now being able to forgo the needed equipment and fill that slot with something else. This in effect will unbalance the ship by giving it the ability of the modules skipped over and the ones used in their stead.

3. Every intended mechanic has a counter and this does not. Don’t even try to say bring friends, as that is not a counter to any mechanic other than being out numbered. When was the last time you told someone asking how to fight a faster ship to bring friends?

4. There is no skill to train for bumping nor to counter bumping.


1. Avoiding CONCORD response isn't an exploit in and of itself, otherwise, ganking in low sec and null sec would be an exploit, as would war dec'ing. The bumper isn't avoiding CONCORD because the bumper, their self, never intend to do anything that would warrant a CONCORD response. Bumping is not a CONCORDable offense. Are you proposing that it should be?

2. Bumping ships are rarely gank ships. A ship fitted to do one would not be nearly as good at the other. What training and equipment are you suggesting bumpers are avoiding having to train and fit?

3. Bumping has a counter. It's called "autopilot". It allows the bumpee to "set it and forget it", whereas the bumper has to be present at the keyboard, and has to concentrate quite a bit to keep a ship (even a freighter) from warping out. There are navigation implants and counter bumping should be pretty effective, assuming you have a friend who is good at bumping. You can also try maneuvering your ship manually in various ways. Sometimes the bumper will actually bump you into warp. And then, of course, there is always the option to fly a smaller, faster ship or contract the problem out to someone else. As for needing friends . . . if a carrier needs subcapital support, if a dreadnaught needs subcapital support, if a Rorqual needs subcapital support, if a mo' frackin' Titan needs subcapital support . . . why shouldn't a freighter pilot expect to need support at times, for certain tasks?

4. Minmatar and Gallente Battleship skills are required to fly a Machariel. No matter the ship, Navigation skills are invaluable, as is High Speed Maneuvering and capacitor skills to run the microwarpdrive. In addition, the ability to manually pilot your ship is pretty useful, as you can completely miss a freighter that is travelling fast enough from a previous bump if you just "Approach" it from a bad angle. There are plenty of other skills that might be useful in bumping and countering bumping, not least of which should be those relevant to fly a gank-Talos. Use a few of those on the next Machariel you find bumping you and I'll bet it stops.
Cathy Mikakka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#284 - 2014-02-11 10:43:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Cathy Mikakka
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Emiko Rowna wrote:
1. The only reason you bump is to avoid the wrath of CONCORD.

2. There are other ways to hold a ship in place, all of which come at a cost in training time and equipment. If bumping is allowed to replace the need for this training and equipment the bumper has the advantage of now being able to forgo the needed equipment and fill that slot with something else. This in effect will unbalance the ship by giving it the ability of the modules skipped over and the ones used in their stead.

3. Every intended mechanic has a counter and this does not. Don’t even try to say bring friends, as that is not a counter to any mechanic other than being out numbered. When was the last time you told someone asking how to fight a faster ship to bring friends?

4. There is no skill to train for bumping nor to counter bumping.


1. Avoiding CONCORD response isn't an exploit in and of itself, otherwise, ganking in low sec and null sec would be an exploit, as would war dec'ing. The bumper isn't avoiding CONCORD because the bumper, their self, never intend to do anything that would warrant a CONCORD response. Bumping is not a CONCORDable offense. Are you proposing that it should be?

2. Bumping ships are rarely gank ships. A ship fitted to do one would not be nearly as good at the other. What training and equipment are you suggesting bumpers are avoiding having to train and fit?

3. Bumping has a counter. It's called "autopilot". It allows the bumpee to "set it and forget it", whereas the bumper has to be present at the keyboard, and has to concentrate quite a bit to keep a ship (even a freighter) from warping out. There are navigation implants and counter bumping should be pretty effective, assuming you have a friend who is good at bumping. You can also try maneuvering your ship manually in various ways. Sometimes the bumper will actually bump you into warp. And then, of course, there is always the option to fly a smaller, faster ship or contract the problem out to someone else. As for needing friends . . . if a carrier needs subcapital support, if a dreadnaught needs subcapital support, if a Rorqual needs subcapital support, if a mo' frackin' Titan needs subcapital support . . . why shouldn't a freighter pilot expect to need support at times, for certain tasks?

4. Minmatar and Gallente Battleship skills are required to fly a Machariel. No matter the ship, Navigation skills are invaluable, as is High Speed Maneuvering and capacitor skills to run the microwarpdrive. In addition, the ability to manually pilot your ship is pretty useful, as you can completely miss a freighter that is travelling fast enough from a previous bump if you just "Approach" it from a bad angle. There are plenty of other skills that might be useful in bumping and countering bumping, not least of which should be those relevant to fly a gank-Talos. Use a few of those on the next Machariel you find bumping you and I'll bet it stops.


1. Yes, because if bumping was not there, what else would you have except warp scrambler which would call CONCORD in? This way you don't need to have this and thus you can bump indefinitely.

2. Anything. Only think they have to train are skills for mwd.

3. What the hell are you smoking? How would autopilot help bumped freighter? It would not, at all. And none of the ships you mention need god damn support for basic flying. Also freighter should not need fleet to fly around in high sec, because if he goes to low/null then it is at same level as other capitals and need support (also, ffs, freighter is not a capital ship, and JF, which technically is, can avoid bumping at any time).

Also, what is with people and "bring friends" attitude. What if your friends are not online? Unlike bumpers friends, who are probably alerted out of game and can come at any time, freighter pilot doesn't have to have any way of contacting them out of game and if they are not in the game, he is screwed.

There is freaking easy solution to the bumping problem that would only hurt gankers, and who cares about them, since they can still gank and only thing they lost is the fact that they need to be in the game to gank (what a ******* shocker):

Make bumping not work with your ship if you have green set up with concord (ie you want system to prohibit suspect and criminal actions). If you bump with green settings, you will be the one pushed away while target will not move. However, if you set up your settings to yellow or red, if you bump, it will be the same as now, but you will get suspect.

This way, everyone in jita would be safe from CONCORD since all you have to do it set up system to green (which you should unless you want to gank) and if you want to hold someone with bumping, better prepare to be attacked by anyone, including freighters escort, because right now, escort can't do ****! Also, bumping capitals and subcapitals will continue as intended (since all you have to do is set up to yellow and red). This solution is the best way to fix this, for everyone except lazy gankers who don't even want to play the game and watch tv until someone alerts them "hey, I fished freighter!".
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#285 - 2014-02-11 11:59:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Riot Girl
Cathy Mikakka wrote:
Also, what is with people and "bring friends" attitude. What if your friends are not online? Unlike bumpers friends, who are probably alerted out of game and can come at any time, freighter pilot doesn't have to have any way of contacting them out of game and if they are not in the game, he is screwed

Cathy, I wasn't going to replyto you because I feel your arguments are too weak to bother wasting time with but I just wanted to say, this quote is priceless.

Oh god.
Cathy Mikakka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#286 - 2014-02-11 12:02:03 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Cathy Mikakka wrote:
Also, what is with people and "bring friends" attitude. What if your friends are not online? Unlike bumpers friends, who are probably alerted out of game and can come at any time, freighter pilot doesn't have to have any way of contacting them out of game and if they are not in the game, he is screwed

Cathy, I wasn't going to replyto you because I feel your arguments are too weak to bother wasting time with but I just wanted to say, this quote is priceless.

Shouldn't you be able to refute weak arguments easily? Oh wait, you can't, thats why you "no comment" it.
Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#287 - 2014-02-11 12:10:40 UTC
Cathy Mikakka wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Cathy Mikakka wrote:
Also, what is with people and "bring friends" attitude. What if your friends are not online? Unlike bumpers friends, who are probably alerted out of game and can come at any time, freighter pilot doesn't have to have any way of contacting them out of game and if they are not in the game, he is screwed

Cathy, I wasn't going to replyto you because I feel your arguments are too weak to bother wasting time with but I just wanted to say, this quote is priceless.

Shouldn't you be able to refute weak arguments easily? Oh wait, you can't, thats why you "no comment" it.

Actually I don't think she thought there was an argument to be refuted, just a really priceless qoute.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#288 - 2014-02-11 12:17:17 UTC
Cathy Mikakka;
They argue points to avoid the original subject, Once bumped a freighter is no longer in the control of the pilot. Once the gank squad arrives they kill it and take the loot. Anyone that has had this happen to them knows it's hopeless, and anyone arguing the point is either an ignorant or lying.

This formula for ISK making is easier and less time consuming than learning market skills, freighter skills, and getting the standings for low broker fees. Then setting buy orders, picking up the orders, taking them to a market hub and selling it to repeat the process for a 10% margin. They consider taking a 1/12th split of a 30% drop of the total haul, and a few minimum trained alts is a better way to play. Who wouldn't think that? and they will say anything and dispute everything to protect that income.

Reminds me of the moon goo arguments last year.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Cathy Mikakka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#289 - 2014-02-11 12:23:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Cathy Mikakka
Goldiiee wrote:
Cathy Mikakka;
They argue points to avoid the original subject, Once bumped a freighter is no longer in the control of the pilot. Once the gank squad arrives they kill it and take the loot. Anyone that has had this happen to them knows it's hopeless, and anyone arguing the point is either an ignorant or lying.

This formula for ISK making is easier and less time consuming than learning market skills, freighter skills, and getting the standings for low broker fees. Then setting buy orders, picking up the orders, taking them to a market hub and selling it to repeat the process for a 10% margin. They consider taking a 1/12th split of a 30% drop of the total haul, and a few minimum trained alts is a better way to play. Who wouldn't think that? and they will say anything and dispute everything to protect that income.

Reminds me of the moon goo arguments last year.

Yeah I know. But my solution is win for everyone except gankers who want to have cheapest possible kill. Normal gankers needs to stay at gate, full force, ready to hit the freighter and risk everything to concord. With bumping, they don't even need to gank at all, just bump him for whole day, see if he cracks and pay you. Or call your gank friends, get them away from tv to actually play and gank him in an hour. Because what we want is to reward AFK gameplay, eh?

My solution is elegant, easy to implement, hell, if you don't want computer to solve who bumped who, just give suspect to both parties, as long as they have yellow settings (if one of them is at green, he won't get suspect). Bumping capitals mechanic stays the same, since no one cares about suspect flag in nullsec and bumping miners will be possible too, except now victims can actually defend themselves. Ya know, PVP? You all gankers suggest we bring friends, but what is the point if you are not suspect or we don't have killrights? There is no point, except our friends/alts have lose standing AND ship to stop tiny frigate bumping the freighter, while frigate pilot loses peanuts. That is not fair and gankers have no risk vs reward at all, while freighter has only loses (either he loses the freighter and cargo (and potentially collateral), or he loses friendly ship and standing of that character, so it's lose lose)...
Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#290 - 2014-02-11 13:07:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Cathy Mikakka wrote:

My solution is elegant, easy to implement, hell, if you don't want computer to solve who bumped who, just give suspect to both parties, as long as they have yellow settings (if one of them is at green, he won't get suspect). Bumping capitals mechanic stays the same, since no one cares about suspect flag in nullsec and bumping miners will be possible too, except now victims can actually defend themselves. Ya know, PVP? You all gankers suggest we bring friends, but what is the point if you are not suspect or we don't have killrights? There is no point, except our friends/alts have lose standing AND ship to stop tiny frigate bumping the freighter, while frigate pilot loses peanuts. That is not fair and gankers have no risk vs reward at all, while freighter has only loses (either he loses the freighter and cargo (and potentially collateral), or he loses friendly ship and standing of that character, so it's lose lose)...


I don't know what frigates are capable of permabumping freighters, there is a reason people use machs for that part of the job. As for lucrativeness of the ganks, plenty has been said already - its not mechanics making ganks attractive, its stupidity/laziness and/or ignorance of people playing the game.
There is a reason why red frog won't take collateral larger then 1 bil in empire space. Do the math and see how lucrative ganking would be (on average) if all freighters hauled that amount. If you don't like doing math, fine - its about 23 mil per person per gank, and that's assuming very optimistic scenario (150k EHP freighter, 50% drop, perfect skills chars in t2 fitted catalysts) while not counting the cost of tags for sec restoration. Not the best income source there is in the game now, is it.

However, people chose to be lazy and haul billions upon billions of stuff and then come to forums whining about broken mechanics once they get ganked. Honestly, what do you think would change if bumping was removed? Catching freighters would take a little bit more effort, but it would still be there and then next thing you'd see would be 'more tank', 'nerf talos', 'remove non-consensual pvp from hisec completely', 'ban sociopaths from this game' whines popping up on forums.
Cathy Mikakka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#291 - 2014-02-11 13:19:16 UTC
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
Cathy Mikakka wrote:

My solution is elegant, easy to implement, hell, if you don't want computer to solve who bumped who, just give suspect to both parties, as long as they have yellow settings (if one of them is at green, he won't get suspect). Bumping capitals mechanic stays the same, since no one cares about suspect flag in nullsec and bumping miners will be possible too, except now victims can actually defend themselves. Ya know, PVP? You all gankers suggest we bring friends, but what is the point if you are not suspect or we don't have killrights? There is no point, except our friends/alts have lose standing AND ship to stop tiny frigate bumping the freighter, while frigate pilot loses peanuts. That is not fair and gankers have no risk vs reward at all, while freighter has only loses (either he loses the freighter and cargo (and potentially collateral), or he loses friendly ship and standing of that character, so it's lose lose)...


I don't know what frigates are capable of permabumping freighters, there is a reason people use machs for that part of the job. As for lucrativeness of the ganks, plenty has been said already - its not mechanics making ganks attractive, its stupidity/laziness and/or ignorance of people playing the game.
There is a reason why red frog won't take collateral larger then 1 bil in empire space. Do the math and see how lucrative ganking would be (on average) if all freighters hauled that amount. If you don't like doing math, fine - its about 23 mil per person per gank, and that's assuming very optimistic scenario (150k EHP freighter, 50% drop, perfect skills chars in t2 fitted catalysts) while not counting the cost of tags for sec restoration. Not the best income source there is in the game now, is it.

However, people chose to be lazy and haul billions upon billions of stuff and then come to forums whining about broken mechanics once they get ganked. Honestly, what do you think would change if bumping was removed? Catching freighters would take a little bit more effort, but it would still be there and then next thing you'd see would be 'more tank', 'nerf talos', 'remove non-consensual pvp from hisec completely', 'ban sociopaths from this game' whines popping up on forums.

We are not discussing WHY freighters get ganked. No one minds getting ganked, you could still gank any freighter if bumping is removed by CCP. The only thing that would change for you is that you need to have fleet ready at some point (ie you need scout, you need tracker and you need to get ready to ambush somewhere). Right now, you don't need any of that, you need one bumper, that is even safe from everything and thus risks NOTHING. That is a problem. Ganking itself is not.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#292 - 2014-02-11 13:24:14 UTC
Proposal: Three strikes and out.

Within a 60 second timeframe:
1st bump - ok
2nd bump - warning
3rd bump - bumper goes suspect

What constitutes a bump?

An impact with another ship in which:
1. your ship is accelerating or maintaining velocity
2. your extended direction vector intersects with the other ship
3. you have not engaged warp
4. (possibly required to cover corner cases) you are not in a freighter.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Centurax
CSR Engineering Solutions
Citizen's Star Republic
#293 - 2014-02-11 13:24:42 UTC
Ok given the trend of this topic I don't think this will be a popular solution, I accept that bumping and ganking are valid ways to do stuff in Eve, so no point trying to change the fact that can be done.

So lets make the solution simple, add module slots to Freighters and Jump Freighters:

High slots: Some weapons would be nice on a freighter so you can at least get on the kill mail of the pilots trying to gank you as CONCORD shoots them down. I don't expect these fittings to be more than Medium weapons and not too many maybe 4 or 5 no more than a cruiser not looking to make a Freighter an alternative to a battleship or anything Lol.

Mid slots: Enough to fit a tank maybe a Capital or XL Shield Booster and a MJD. Here is where I think it will be an issue for the Gankers, "I will need to get more ships to kill a Freighter", I would suggest ships on Auto Pilot will still be as vulnerable as they are now, have to be at the computer to turn on a shield booster of MJD so I suspect you will find plenty to kill. So being able to use an Afterburner, MJD or MWD will give options to allow the ship to move back to a gate or get into warp, maybe wont solve the bumping issue but will give some options to counter it.

Low and rig slots: then I accept you would have to reduce the cargo hold of the freighters by a % so that when you put back T2 expanders and Cargo Rigs you arrive at more or less what you had at the start. Then it is all personal preference, even with reduced cargo hold you don't have to make it max carrying capacity, increasing warp speed, agility or tank will give more flexibility to Freighter pilots.

I will point out the though Orcas are clearly gankable they still have all these options available to them, if they work or not at the time, you can at least use rep your shields or armor and use drones to fight back however futile it might be Lol.

At the end of the day it will level the playing field slightly between the freighter pilots and those trying to gank them. I still don't understand the original thinking behind Freighters with no slots it seems stupid that you would develop a large cargo vessel that operates in space with pirates and not make some attempt to protect it, seems very illogical to me.
Cathy Mikakka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#294 - 2014-02-11 13:28:23 UTC
Centurax wrote:
Ok given the trend of this topic I don't think this will be a popular solution, I accept that bumping and ganking are valid ways to do stuff in Eve, so no point trying to change the fact that can be done.

So lets make the solution simple, add module slots to Freighters and Jump Freighters:

High slots: Some weapons would be nice on a freighter so you can at least get on the kill mail of the pilots trying to gank you as CONCORD shoots them down. I don't expect these fittings to be more than Medium weapons and not too many maybe 4 or 5 no more than a cruiser not looking to make a Freighter an alternative to a battleship or anything Lol.

Mid slots: Enough to fit a tank maybe a Capital or XL Shield Booster and a MJD. Here is where I think it will be an issue for the Gankers, "I will need to get more ships to kill a Freighter", I would suggest ships on Auto Pilot will still be as vulnerable as they are now, have to be at the computer to turn on a shield booster of MJD so I suspect you will find plenty to kill. So being able to use an Afterburner, MJD or MWD will give options to allow the ship to move back to a gate or get into warp, maybe wont solve the bumping issue but will give some options to counter it.

Low and rig slots: then I accept you would have to reduce the cargo hold of the freighters by a % so that when you put back T2 expanders and Cargo Rigs you arrive at more or less what you had at the start. Then it is all personal preference, even with reduced cargo hold you don't have to make it max carrying capacity, increasing warp speed, agility or tank will give more flexibility to Freighter pilots.

I will point out the though Orcas are clearly gankable they still have all these options available to them, if they work or not at the time, you can at least use rep your shields or armor and use drones to fight back however futile it might be Lol.

At the end of the day it will level the playing field slightly between the freighter pilots and those trying to gank them. I still don't understand the original thinking behind Freighters with no slots it seems stupid that you would develop a large cargo vessel that operates in space with pirates and not make some attempt to protect it, seems very illogical to me.

I would rather not have many slots on freighters, maybe only 1 non weapon high slot and one medium slot (no low slots). That way, freighter pilot can either add additional buff to tank or pack mwd + cloak combo for safer journeys.
Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#295 - 2014-02-11 14:03:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Cathy Mikakka wrote:

We are not discussing WHY freighters get ganked. No one minds getting ganked, you could still gank any freighter if bumping is removed by CCP. The only thing that would change for you is that you need to have fleet ready at some point (ie you need scout, you need tracker and you need to get ready to ambush somewhere). Right now, you don't need any of that, you need one bumper, that is even safe from everything and thus risks NOTHING. That is a problem. Ganking itself is not.


Well if ganking was not a problem, then we would not be into 15th page of this discussion. Bumping is a mechanic used for various other purposes other than ganking freighters (killing/saving titans, killing stuff on gates in all sec levels etc.) yet you don't see 'Why bumping aggroed battleships off gates in hi-sec war-dec situations is an exploit' thread anywhere on forums (I just made that one up, could be wrong but you get the point, hopefully).
This thread started due to bumping being used as a mechanic for freighter kills, so to make it as short as possible - its an interesting mechanic, there are ways to counter the bumping (which, unfortunately for some, might require coordination with other people) and there are ways to avoid getting into that situation altogether. Insert some leet abbreviation here (L2P, HTFU). End of story.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#296 - 2014-02-11 14:14:47 UTC
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
Bumping is a mechanic used for various other purposes other than ganking freighters (killing/saving titans, killing stuff other stuff on gates in all sec levels etc.) yet you don't see 'Why bumping aggroed battleships off gates in hi-sec war-dec situations is an exploit' thread anywhere on forums (I just made that one up, could be wrong but you get the point, hopefully).
.

War dec targets get to shoot back, titans are not in high sec so they can shoot back, anywhere besides high sec bumping and becoming suspect would be no different than it is currently. So why is that to hard to understand.

If someone Jams you = fit ECCM to counter, Webs = prop mod to counter, Point = warp stab, tracking disruptor = tracking computer everything has a module counter for when another player takes away control of your ship Bumping = _______. Yep nothing.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#297 - 2014-02-11 14:17:40 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:

War dec targets get to shoot back, titans are not in high sec so they can shoot back, anywhere besides high sec bumping and becoming suspect would be no different than it is currently. So why is that to hard to understand.


Because you can't bump war target with a neutral char and/or that never happens?

Quote:
If someone Jams you = fit ECCM to counter, Webs = prop mod to counter, Point = warp stab, tracking disruptor = tracking computer everything has a module counter for when another player takes away control of your ship Bumping = _______. Yep nothing.

_________ (get a buddy to bump him back / web you into warp)
Sorry, something.
Cathy Mikakka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#298 - 2014-02-11 14:21:59 UTC
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:

War dec targets get to shoot back, titans are not in high sec so they can shoot back, anywhere besides high sec bumping and becoming suspect would be no different than it is currently. So why is that to hard to understand.


Because you can't bump war target with a neutral char and/or that never happens?

Quote:
If someone Jams you = fit ECCM to counter, Webs = prop mod to counter, Point = warp stab, tracking disruptor = tracking computer everything has a module counter for when another player takes away control of your ship Bumping = _______. Yep nothing.

_________ (get a buddy to bump him back / web you into warp)
Sorry, something.

But bumper is alone. Why should 2vs1 be acceptable counter method? Apparently, 1vs1 PVP is so stacked that bumper will ALWAYS win. Moreso, if he bumped you, webbing doesn't work anymore.
Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#299 - 2014-02-11 14:34:26 UTC
Cathy Mikakka wrote:

But bumper is alone. Why should 2vs1 be acceptable counter method? Apparently, 1vs1 PVP is so stacked that bumper will ALWAYS win.

I give up.
Estrella Sheikh
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#300 - 2014-02-11 14:36:26 UTC
So i got drunk last night and went to Niarja with my alliance while we were escorting an orca to jita.

Crazy concept right?


While they were getting their **** in jita, We were on the Niarja gate bumping EVERYTHING. I was flying a Scythe, and a Brutix, Two ships MUCH larger than a "noobship" And I was traveling at well over 2km/s on scythe and 1.5km on brutix, guess what i was flying into?

Freighters.

You know what happened? Not a bloody thing. The scythe literally bounced off the freighter uninterrupted in his autopilot towards the gate. I also took the time to ram people who were aligning to the madi gate, the only time any bump made any sort of effect was when they were bumped in the ass. which ironically helped them enter warp faster.

The brutix SLIGHTLY altered his position down, but in no way was I able to hold the freighter indefinitely. I'm going to need a FRAPS video of said noobship halting you.

Dear god obelisks are hard to move o_o;