Player Features and Ideas Discussion

P sure this is definitely part of the reason why. Even fitting rigs alone would make a freighter pretty darn close to over the 1m cargo most packaged caps need.

Is the difference even worth noting? Either way you shouldn't do it. Also, is it harassment if I'm doing it for a ransom, or if I'm doing it and not targeting specific players? If I decide I'm going to bump the first jumpfreighter i see for two hours unless I get 50m isk from him, can that be called harassment? Is it still harassment if I'm going to bump him for one hour only? Or if I'm only bumping him so I can move in a squad of catalysts? What if I demand a 1bn ransom (empty JF) because I have a squad of catalysts on the way?

Perma bumping titans and such is allowed on the same permise.

I wasn't born yesterday. I was citing those things (ransom, etc) to illustrate that forever-bumping can be done outside of an impending gank, and outside of singling out certain players, and to illustrate that not all problems are solved by having less in your cargohold. Good point about JFs being able to jump out, but it doesn't resolve the problem. The problem is that your average fleet stabber can pick a freighter and render it completely unable to act for an indefinitely long period of time, short of the freighter self-destructing. Weather he has a gank squad on the way or asks for a ransom is completely secondary, as neither are required, as he can hold down the freighter while being protected from reprisal by concord. From what I can tell, CCP would prefer you shoot the guy or let him go, but in this situations, you can hold the guy indefinitely while doing neither.

The problem with calling it harassment is that it needs to be repeated and targeted. But what I've described could happen to anyone, and it doesn't really need to be repeated, it can just be one long series of bumps. If the target is afforded a chance to escape/move-on as CCP has cited regarding miner bumping, then that really defeats the purpose as far as freighters go, since you won't get your ransom. But the instant CCP says you can do it for 1 hour max, we'll see freighter bump ransoms up to the 1 hour mark everywhere.

My point is, bumping can be abused to the extent that it can be considered an exploit, and it doesn't necessarily have to meet the standards we commonly associate with "harassment." Bumping has all sorts of intended uses, but letting you hold a target indefinitely while being protected from reprisal by concord is not one of them.

I'm not proposing any changes to game mechanics vis-a-vis bumping or crimewatch. I think this should continue to be handled on a case-by-case basis. But it doesn't have to be a "bug" to be considered an "exploit."

They could certainly use more EHP to make them more of PITA to gank. As far as cargo space, if transporting capitols is such a no-no (i can accept that even if I dont understand the reason why, since you would not be transporting them through hi sec) , then make cargo expansion rigs/mods not function with freighters, simple, or nerf their cargo holds. Having some rigs and low - med slots that can be used for whatever you are dumb/smart enough to use them for would be excellent and hardly difficult to program in. After all, small industrial's ALL have fitting slots available.

freighters dnt need fitting, they are absolutely perfect as they are.

there is a whole bunch of threads as to why this is a bad idea.

after running a quick search, I found the only sensible reason for not allowing freighter fitting is the possibility of hauling a capitol into high sec. This seems to me easily addressed in two different ways, freighters cant fit cargo expanders/rigs or not able to carry capitol ships. The only other prevalent reason that seems to prevent freighter fitting is that they would be too hard (more costly) to gank and the gankers wails are louder then the carebears. After reading this thread, I dont know if my alt will ever undock a freighter again without a webber. If freighters are so bad to fit, why do all other industrial ships have fitting slots, especially with the ease of CCP majic programming to preventing capitols into high sec?? Orca's have fitting slots too, and that works great. Properly fitted they have at least 280k EHP, which is more then a freighter but a freighters cargo can be much more value then an orca. Additionally, the gank threshold of a freighter occurs above the 1 billion mark, with most cargo, that is less then quarter full, so what is all the rest of that space for? Why not allow fitting so that you can carry more and stay under the gank threshold? Additionally, you cant even put a full incursion supplies, (pirate battleship, T2 logi, and lyavite/ammo, etc) into a freighter without crossing the 1B threshold.

If CCP did not want freighters from transporting capitals after a cargo size increase, all they would have to do is apply a flag that stops you, because well, they make the code, that's why.

Freighters aren't the only things worth ganking. Depends on your purpose. Often times an interceptor's pod is worth far more lols than a freighter, as people just tool around in inties these days thinking they are 100% safe. I don't know all the reasons they can't fit mods, but the capital ships one is a pretty big one.

An orca can also carry much more value than a freighter. A frigate as well. Eve lends to all kinds of bad choices.

Orca's are also designed to fit links. Orca's are also designed to be support platforms for mining operations. Those needs can vary wildly. A freighter is built to move stuff.

Why add fitting so people can shove even more stuff in their freighters and cry even more when they get ganked?

Question operates both ways. I don't think mods on a freighter would be too bad if their base cargo was reduced so that a full cargo fit freighter could not fit a capital ship, rather than an artificial 'oh you can't put that there' being chained to them. That would seem like balance to me.

As far as not undocking your freighter without a webber? Good. You're learning. That's a lot more than several other people in this thread can say.


Also, DSpite, yes, gankers would be more curious, but would be much less able to act on that curiosity.

Solo noob ship? They use those for bumping too, these days?