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Lvl 4 Rokh coming soon?
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Carl Darcy
Matter Out of Place
#1 - 2011-11-09 22:40:41 UTC
With the buff coming to hybrids will the Rokh be a contender in lvl 4's and possible be as good if not slightly better than a Raven? I've seen fits for lvl4 Rokhs on battle clinic but everyone seems to agree its more of a pvp ship. The design of the Rokh is so much better than that of a Raven. I would love to fly this ship in lvl 4's and have it be on par with a Raven.

It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#2 - 2011-11-09 23:00:34 UTC
This is looking maybe viable:

[Rokh, pve rails T2 AB]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Power Diagnostic System II

X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Heat Dissipation Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range

425mm Railgun II, Javelin L
425mm Railgun II, Javelin L
425mm Railgun II, Javelin L
425mm Railgun II, Javelin L
425mm Railgun II, Javelin L
425mm Railgun II, Javelin L
425mm Railgun II, Javelin L
425mm Railgun II, Javelin L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Goose99
#3 - 2011-11-09 23:02:35 UTC
What rail buff? Tracking? Well, that changes everything, doesn't it?Roll
Carl Darcy
Matter Out of Place
#4 - 2011-11-09 23:16:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Carl Darcy
Goose99 wrote:
What rail buff? Tracking? Well, that changes everything, doesn't it?Roll



CCP Tallest wrote:
Greetings

Please post your feedback about hybrid turret balancing in this thread.

Thanks.
Your Tallest.

update (08/11/11): based on player feedback, the following changes will be made to hybrid balancing (and T2 ammo balancing).

* Hybrid turret reload time will be 5 seconds.
* Hybrid ammo will be 50% smaller (and turret capacity reduced to keep same number of charges)
* Blaster damage +5% (except XL turrets)
* Railgun tracking +5% (except XL turrets)
* Hail falloff penalty will be 25%, not 0%.



Unless I am totally misundertanding which is possible, is that not a buff to rails?
Wouldn't they shoot faster and be able to actually hit smaller ships?
With a faster rate of fire wouldn't dps increase also?

Would this not also make the Rokh better for missioning as well?

It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.
Goose99
#5 - 2011-11-09 23:29:26 UTC
Carl Darcy wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
What rail buff? Tracking? Well, that changes everything, doesn't it?Roll



CCP Tallest wrote:
Greetings

Please post your feedback about hybrid turret balancing in this thread.

Thanks.
Your Tallest.

update (08/11/11): based on player feedback, the following changes will be made to hybrid balancing (and T2 ammo balancing).

* Hybrid turret reload time will be 5 seconds.
* Hybrid ammo will be 50% smaller (and turret capacity reduced to keep same number of charges)
* Blaster damage +5% (except XL turrets)
* Railgun tracking +5% (except XL turrets)
* Hail falloff penalty will be 25%, not 0%.



Unless I am totally misundertanding which is possible, is that not a buff to rails?
Wouldn't they shoot faster and be able to actually hit smaller ships?
With a faster rate of fire wouldn't dps increase also?

Would this not also make the Rokh better for missioning as well?


Which part? The 5% tracking? That's not much of a buff. I guess it would increase applied dps in theory, but it's tracking, and 5% of it...Roll
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#6 - 2011-11-09 23:34:20 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Which part? The 5% tracking? That's not much of a buff. I guess it would increase applied dps in theory, but it's tracking, and 5% of it...Roll


The bigger boons are being able to sort of fit T2 425s and Javelin being somewhat useful with a tracking bonus. The drawback is that you have to fit T2 425s because Javelin is the only sort of useful thing about the Rokh post-patch.
Goose99
#7 - 2011-11-09 23:44:57 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
Which part? The 5% tracking? That's not much of a buff. I guess it would increase applied dps in theory, but it's tracking, and 5% of it...Roll


The bigger boons are being able to sort of fit T2 425s and Javelin being somewhat useful with a tracking bonus. The drawback is that you have to fit T2 425s because Javelin is the only sort of useful thing about the Rokh post-patch.


Don't 425s have lower tracking than 350s? How much is 8 425s even with Spike in a Rokh? Like 600 dps? Less? Am I missing something here?Ugh
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#8 - 2011-11-09 23:52:17 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Don't 425s have lower tracking than 350s? How much is 8 425s even with Spike in a Rokh? Like 600 dps? Less? Am I missing something here?Ugh


654 at 31+39 for Javelin, which is getting a 25% tracking bonus instead of a 25% tracking penalty. CN antimatter makes that 645 at 62+39. Certainly nothing to write home about, but it's somewhat viable considering a standard Raven is only putting out 616 with Fury (both before drones).

I'm certainly not going to be hopping in to one except for ***** and giggles, but it looks better than it used to.
Carl Darcy
Matter Out of Place
#9 - 2011-11-10 00:36:39 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
Don't 425s have lower tracking than 350s? How much is 8 425s even with Spike in a Rokh? Like 600 dps? Less? Am I missing something here?Ugh


654 at 31+39 for Javelin, which is getting a 25% tracking bonus instead of a 25% tracking penalty. CN antimatter makes that 645 at 62+39. Certainly nothing to write home about, but it's somewhat viable considering a standard Raven is only putting out 616 with Fury (both before drones).

I'm certainly not going to be hopping in to one except for ***** and giggles, but it looks better than it used to.


Well if its almost as good or very close to a Raven in terms of dps I'd rather fly it simply for looks. I've still got my drake for a missle paltform and the Rokh would be a nice change of pace.

It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.
Goose99
#10 - 2011-11-10 00:45:49 UTC
Carl Darcy wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
Don't 425s have lower tracking than 350s? How much is 8 425s even with Spike in a Rokh? Like 600 dps? Less? Am I missing something here?Ugh


654 at 31+39 for Javelin, which is getting a 25% tracking bonus instead of a 25% tracking penalty. CN antimatter makes that 645 at 62+39. Certainly nothing to write home about, but it's somewhat viable considering a standard Raven is only putting out 616 with Fury (both before drones).

I'm certainly not going to be hopping in to one except for ***** and giggles, but it looks better than it used to.


Well if its almost as good or very close to a Raven in terms of dps I'd rather fly it simply for looks. I've still got my drake for a missle paltform and the Rokh would be a nice change of pace.


Just EFTed it, looks like 595 dps from rack of 8 425s with Javelin, and that's with 4 magstabs. Hardly impressive by any standard.
Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-11-10 01:08:38 UTC
Frankly anyone who has spent the time to train T2 large railguns should have enough cash for a better missioning hull then a Rokh. If you don't have T2 guns I don't even want to look at the ship with its no tracking or damage bonuses.

If you're on a budget, have T2 large rails, T2 shield tank and Caldari BS IV/V without similar skills for other races then... sure. You really just don't need that optimal range bonus with how far rails hit.

I'd be interested to see how the Rokh compares to the Dominix, Hype and Mega after the railgun dust settles. Personally, I see shield tanked Navy Domi's with 425s rampaging L4s for pretty cheap (hint, they already do)

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?
Carl Darcy
Matter Out of Place
#12 - 2011-11-10 01:15:22 UTC
Desudes wrote:
Frankly anyone who has spent the time to train T2 large railguns should have enough cash for a better missioning hull then a Rokh. If you don't have T2 guns I don't even want to look at the ship with its no tracking or damage bonuses.

If you're on a budget, have T2 large rails, T2 shield tank and Caldari BS IV/V without similar skills for other races then... sure. You really just don't need that optimal range bonus with how far rails hit.

I'd be interested to see how the Rokh compares to the Dominix, Hype and Mega after the railgun dust settles. Personally, I see shield tanked Navy Domi's with 425s rampaging L4s for pretty cheap (hint, they already do)



I was mostly looking for something other than another missle boat while I trained for a CNR or SNI. I was hoping the Rokh would fit that role but seems like its going to continue to fall short for pve. May still get one just for fun though P

It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.
m3talc0re X
The Motley Crew of Disorder
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#13 - 2011-11-10 01:30:55 UTC
Sorry, was this buff completely overlooked?

Quote:
Damage Increase:

All railgun turrets: +10% to Damage modifier
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#14 - 2011-11-10 01:36:08 UTC
m3talc0re X wrote:
Sorry, was this buff completely overlooked?

Quote:
Damage Increase:

All railgun turrets: +10% to Damage modifier


10% more of an absurdly small number is still an absurdly smal number.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#15 - 2011-11-10 03:49:32 UTC
m3talc0re X wrote:
Sorry, was this buff completely overlooked?

Quote:
Damage Increase:

All railgun turrets: +10% to Damage modifier


My numbers included that. It's still just not a whole lot of damage.
Nezumiiro Noneko
Alternative Enterprises
#16 - 2011-11-10 05:48:10 UTC
I've tried to pve a rokh...and not seeing the tracking or damage boost pushing it into the record books for AE times tbh. this actual flight not eft. 425 II based rokh...with its crap drone bay all I need is to lose a drone or 2 with jam/scram rats and I delivered my rokh like a pizza to an ass whopping so I avoided blasters. I kite from way the hell out to make sure jammers and scram frigs are dead out of optimals of rat bs'.


No drones hurts this for pve. raven you can lose one or 2 if not paying attention and not care. Rokh...every dead drone hurts imo.

Cap with active tank and even passive is an issue. Unlike your cap safe 3 X CCC raven option....rokh you have 2 rig slots. 3rd slot is ACR for most fits even at AWU 5 (and you can't cheat low mods....rokh needs lots of mag stab) with no choice in the matter

Its passable for pve...jsut not a great choice. hate ravens that much it will make you some isk. Just not as fsat as other gun ships can potentially or the raven.

I ran a passive one to workaround cap issues. Put a pssive drake fit with passive resists on rokh. More mag stabs than spr...they are needed more. 3 at least or don't bother leaving the station tbh.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#17 - 2011-11-10 05:54:20 UTC
The rokh's gallente counterpart is honestly a much better platform for PVE. Hype can fit 3x mag stab, 3x TC, 3-slot tank, cap booster, and afterburner, with 350mm's. The tracking comps give it a pretty good amount of flexibility with scripts, and with the booster it's stable long enough for you to take care of initial aggro and GTFO to kite ranges. Extra drone space is nice too.

thhief ghabmoef
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#18 - 2011-11-10 06:00:04 UTC
Nezumiiro Noneko wrote:
I ran a passive one to workaround cap issues. Put a pssive drake fit with passive resists on rokh. More mag stabs than spr...they are needed more. 3 at least or don't bother leaving the station tbh.


Oh sweet jeezus please post this unholy fit, right now.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#19 - 2011-11-10 06:01:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Goose99 wrote:
Carl Darcy wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
Don't 425s have lower tracking than 350s? How much is 8 425s even with Spike in a Rokh? Like 600 dps? Less? Am I missing something here?Ugh


654 at 31+39 for Javelin, which is getting a 25% tracking bonus instead of a 25% tracking penalty. CN antimatter makes that 645 at 62+39. Certainly nothing to write home about, but it's somewhat viable considering a standard Raven is only putting out 616 with Fury (both before drones).

I'm certainly not going to be hopping in to one except for ***** and giggles, but it looks better than it used to.


Well if its almost as good or very close to a Raven in terms of dps I'd rather fly it simply for looks. I've still got my drake for a missle paltform and the Rokh would be a nice change of pace.


Just EFTed it, looks like 595 dps from rack of 8 425s with Javelin, and that's with 4 magstabs. Hardly impressive by any standard.


I think you launched the wrong EFT. I'm seeing 766 @ 54+32.

-Liang

Ed: Still not as good as the 950 you'd get out of an equivalent CCNR.

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Nezumiiro Noneko
Alternative Enterprises
#20 - 2011-11-10 06:56:49 UTC
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
Nezumiiro Noneko wrote:
I ran a passive one to workaround cap issues. Put a pssive drake fit with passive resists on rokh. More mag stabs than spr...they are needed more. 3 at least or don't bother leaving the station tbh.


Oh sweet jeezus please post this unholy fit, right now.



Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
SPR II
SPR II

Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

425mm Railgun II,
425mm Railgun II
425mm Railgun II
425mm Railgun II
425mm Railgun II
425mm Railgun II
425mm Railgun II
425mm Railgun II

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Purge or extenders or whatever

Hammerhead II


Got the fit idea rom failheap (the post their had different rigs) ....seemed worth a try and works half decent I found.


Change resistss for rats ofc. Ammo to taste

Rigs are what you like. Some like extenders (if you kite the whole time the spr's do a decent job keeping up) or purge if you like more close up and take fire more to get faster recharge.

In less busy rooms passive recharge and rails will share energy nicely. In real busy rooms and firing for miuntes at a time you may have low cap issues. Kite and let cap build up again what I did while I let drones kill cruisers and such if still around. If you have max cap skill should be less of a problem. Only at 4 myself now (stuck in a perc/will remap phase atm....almost done though). Also level 4 for controlled burst. Level 5 should help if someone has it.
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