Ships & Modules

24 dps, yup. and with your EHP towards EMP you can now calculate how much time you have before you explode, it's much less than you may think.

Same cane fit, NOw with 1 TD on it. Before you ask, yes- the crow is stable with prop, point, and 1 TD

http://i.imgur.com/hIwTcS0.png

wrong, you will be missing shots. Not applying 24 dps perfectly, and as the other graph showed- 2 DPS with one TD

SO yes, if given enough time. The crow will kill you easily.

I thought this thread was about Merlins and Kestrels? .

I just wanted to throw in here that beam Coercers and rail Cats and Corms do very well against dual TD Condors at least. Their lock range is 60km +. They average between 140 - 200 DPS depending on ammo and shoot every 2 seconds. And they all hit out to at least 50km. Lock and hit before they can.

We're not talking crow vs Condor in a fight against eachother, we're talking Crow vs Condor effectiveness in solo pvp.

- they apply the same dps
- they have similar parameters in regards to speed and agility, one is a bit faster, the other aligns quicker. Potato potato
- anything that can be killed by a Crow can be killed by a Condor
- anything that can kill a Condor can also kill a Crow
- the MWD sig bonus helps, sure, but a simple HML Drake will not only force a Condor away but also a Crow, the crow can just hang around a few seconds longer before he has to run. No real difference
- you can get the Condor stable while running 2 TD, generally cap stability is not even considered in PVP but for this specific ship it is because it allows it to kill hilarious stuff. There is a 1 TD Crow fit you can get stable just fine but the tactical advantage of having 2 TD is very useful either to fully shut down a target or to TD 2 different targets. Is that partially taken over by the Crow's MWD sig bonus? Sure but it's not the same


The result is that if you ignore the obvious bubble immunity then the Condor does pretty much exactly the same thing as a Crow while being easier to fit and being cap stable, which was my initial statement that started this debate. And then people who haven't been fitting Condors and Crows (and thus never noticed the similarities and how the Crow, for some reason, has issues the Condor simply doesn't have) started yapping about how wrong I am, going "lol of course the new intie is better than a T1 ololol". In the same way that they go "I seal club clowns while using OP ships with gang links, I am god almighty look at the number of my clown kills, LOOK AT THEM! So my personal perspective on the usability of a specific ship is the right way to look at it and applies to everyone" (See BC thread).

For a starting PVPer, as the OP is, the Condor is EXACTLY THE SAME as a Crow and while the Crow sure has advantages he'll be much better off to start using that Condor as they're much cheaper to lose.




Still stands.

Plex warfare. If you're inside the plex with the dessy start at 60km or max lock range. You will lock first and squeeze off 2-3 rounds at the very least before the TD are applied. (at 4 seconds overheated a beam coercer fires a third time after lock. It's less for a Catalyst or Corm) Untanked condors can't take much abuse.

Hell - if the Condor is inside the plex I'll still go in. I'll just switch the sensor boosters to scan res scripts. For the Coercer i'll load imperial standard. 29km optimal with 242 dps or 501 salvos in the EM/Thermal profile. What is the first thing the condor will do when I show on grid? Turn on the MWD.... I've two shot so many condors that way....

There is a reason why people use links

Decreased sig and increased lock range is a really big deal when kiting. Ask anyone who has done any amount of kiting, point range is good.

I don't really feel like arguing with someone about what is important while kiting who hasn't done any kiting..

Uhm no..

A crow can beat other lml ships, is virtually immune to drones and can sig tank long range weapons.

Tachs? Honestly?

Where the **** are you realistically going to find a target in pvp using ******* tachs?

Are we talking about awfuls killing bears in high sec? Because i have absolutely no opinion on that.

Try this

Standard scram kiting Kestrel
Pros: a lot, 6500 EHP, Damage (cold) 137 DPS, (hot) 161 DPS, free damage choice, always use T2 ammo.
Cons: Speed, you have to be very careful, overheating your AB and keep the range/orbit at 7km is a must. Anything faster, with more DPS and good piloting will kill you if you can't dictate the starting range. e.g. jumping on a Merlin at 0 is risky :)





Full kiting Kestrel
Pros: kills any Condor, Crow etc. 1700 EHP+ASB, Damage T2 Ammo (cold) 97 DPS, (hot) 114 DPS, free damage choice, Ammo usage is a bit tricky, if you are pursuing a condor you have to use faction ammo with 63km range, if you are running you can use T2 with 47.5km range.
Speed: (cold) 3323 m/s, (hot) 4734 m/s (for about 2-3 MWD cycles)
Cons: the usual kiting ones, very good piloting skills needed.