These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Suggestion for a new tech 2 destroyer role - the Instigator

Author
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#1 - 2014-02-03 23:45:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
The Instigator is a ship designed to start fights. Small and agile, it slinks into hostile space, drops combat scanner probes in search of prey, then upon finding prey, it can either destroy soft targets itself, but usually it will function as tackle allowing heavier ships to come and actually dispatch what it has caught.

Designed for finding and engaging the largest of hostile ships, it is something no solo capital ship ever wants to see on their directional scanner and should even be feared by supercarriers. It is also capable of hunting battleships but will melt when faced with ships that can apply damage well to small targets.


Role Bonus:
- Can fit a single infinite point (but NOT any form of bubble. This is a new high slot module, basically a less flexible version of the one Heavy Interdictors fit. Unlike the Hictor infinite point, however, this module does prevent the use of microjumpdrives).
- 90% reduction in CPU cost of all probe launchers.
- 7% increase in scan strength per level in the Instigator skill.

Damage capability:
- Assuming it fits in accordance with its role bonus (one high fitting an infinite point, one a probe launcher), damage output around 80% of a tech 1 destroyer.
- Damage application scales with skill level in Instigator, but at Instigator 5 it should be able to apply damage even to Interceptors.
- Excellent scan resolution.

Tank capability:
- Mostly speed tanked.
- Otherwise similar to tech 1 destroyers, except with tech 2 resists.
- Cruisers and T1 destroyers should melt these ships. Larger ships should struggle to hurt them.

Tackle capability:
- Infinite point range scales with Instigator skill level.

Navigation capability:
- Faster and more agile than T1 destroyers but less agile and slower than T1 frigates.
- Same warp speed as T1 destroyers.
- No bonuses of any type to cloaking.

Build cost:
- Approximately 40-45% of the cost of a HAC.

Weaknesses/Counters:
- Ships with medium weapons that can dictate range should annihilate this ship class.
- Large ships that can use webifiers to allow them to apply decent damage to an Instigator.
- Large ships that have assistance from external tackle.


On the 'why':

- In situations of largescale war, this would provide a subcapital ship that is particularly effective against supercapitals, but unlike Hictors isn't incidentally overly dangerous to other subcapitals.
- In more peaceful times, the Instigator can probe down PVE ships and can catch and hold pretty much anything, setting the stage for fights that might just escalate into sizable brawls. Unlike Interceptors, however, it can't just ignore bubbles.
- They don't really have much in the way of PVE application and aren't meant to. That's a possible role for a third t2 destroyer but not for this design.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Daoden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-02-03 23:53:17 UTC
I don't see the point in adding an infinite point to a destroyer. Only reason for those is to point supers, which in a cruiser with T2 resists is hard enough without being blown up let alone in a dessie.
You also seem to be adding a lot to it. Scanner probes, the for mentioned infinite point, T2 resists etc etc. Needs more specialization IMO
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#3 - 2014-02-04 00:00:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
Daoden wrote:
I don't see the point in adding an infinite point to a destroyer. Only reason for those is to point supers, which in a cruiser with T2 resists is hard enough without being blown up let alone in a dessie.
You also seem to be adding a lot to it. Scanner probes, the for mentioned infinite point, T2 resists etc etc. Needs more specialization IMO



The infinite point was intended to catch the odd idiot ratting in a supercarrier. (Yes people actually do that). This ship has the tools to find such a super and lock it down by itself, rather than needing two ships for that purpose. By having a lower scan resolution than a heavy interdictor, it will be able to survive a little while - long enough to get a fight started.

The main 'role' of this ship, however, is as a single ship that can initiate a fight but can't on its own win it. That's it's 'specialisation' in my vision and although I'll change the suggestion if I see something I really like proposed here, I feel all the role bonuses fit that overall vision.

Edited first post to clarify that design.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#4 - 2014-02-04 00:24:51 UTC  |  Edited by: BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Sorry Sabriz, can't support this one. You have some nice ideas in here, but the overall role treads too far onto HIC territory. I personally would like to see a complete rework of warp mechanics as currently they are too binary, but I am completely against infi points on principle. This ship idea sounds more in the realm of a specific T3 setup than a T2.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#5 - 2014-02-04 22:36:16 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Sorry Sabriz, can't support this one. You have some nice ideas in here, but the overall role treads too far onto HIC territory. I personally would like to see a complete rework of warp mechanics as currently they are too binary, but I am completely against infi points on principle. This ship idea sounds more in the realm of a specific T3 setup than a T2.



I agree tackle mechanics could change (I think a few subcapitals should be able to point a super without an infinite point or bubble, for instance, by working together). Without a thorough rework of them, however, an infinite point is the only way to tackle supercapitals, and tackling a supercapital anywhere in the game is a sure way to start a fight.

To me the defining characteristic of the HIC is the bubble, much as the bubble launcher defines the interdictor. The presence of one HIC changes a fleet fight in a way that this ship would not.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#6 - 2014-02-04 23:25:59 UTC
Pro-tip: in any fleet situation, a super getting pointed is immediately called out on comms and the offending ship becomes the primary target AT ALL COSTS.

As for your idea...

- Titans can't scratch HICs or DICs unless they are standing still. They are far too small and the simple act of moving overcomes capital turret tracking and citidel missile damage application.

- Fighters are terrible against anything with a sig radius smaller than a battleship/battlecruiser... which means that 2 HICs with remote repair support can comfortably tank a single supercarrier and 2 DICs wih cloaks and afterburners can easily alternate in keeping a supercarrier bubbled up.

- Unless you can ignore "stall" bubbles that null-sec carebears set up in their ratting systems... you will never reach them (much less probe them) before they have warped off to a station or POS (because you warp slower than local chat announces your presence).

- Interceptors already do a fine job at catching ratters and carebears with their pants down only by virtue of being fast and warpig through bubbles.


Basically... I don't see where this proposed ship would fit in anywhere. It just a bastardized version of a DIC, Interceptor, and Exploration frig but worse.
James Nikolas Tesla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-02-05 00:57:38 UTC
So from what I understand, you want a smaller, faster, HIC.

CODE is just a bunch of pirates; smart, organized pirates. It doesn't help to rage at them because that is exactly what they want. Dust yourself off and get back on your feet, you don't even have to talk to them.

Endovior
PFU Consortium
#8 - 2014-02-05 01:35:30 UTC
Daoden wrote:
You also seem to be adding a lot to it. Scanner probes, the for mentioned infinite point, T2 resists etc etc. Needs more specialization IMO


This. Giving it infi-point is just stealing the HIC's thunder, but the other parts aren't terrible. I'd support a 'hunter-killer' type destroyer that has both scan probes and non-trivial combat ability.