EVE General Discussion

Why?

What is it that want do do?

Start there and you'll find out why it's a bad idea.

Ok, I have returned.

I think some people are misinterpreting what i'm trying to say here. I know why carriers are not let into highsec from a gameplay perspective, too overpowered, no roles in their, CONCORD would never allow it, etc.

I've come to the conclusion that CONCORD and the empires have bottlenecked star gates, making freighters the limit for being able to jump through.

I would also like to discuss the warp drive "foot print' and freighter electronic systems theory, as was mentioned before and I think this also helps prove that CONCORD interferes with the star gates.

For the 'foot print'/electronic systems theory to hold, 1 of 2 things must happen:

1) A carriers mass is multiplied when attempting to jump due to it's 'foot print'
2) A freighters mass is mitigated when attempting to jump due to its electronic systems

This would also have effects not only in star gates, but in wormholes since wormholes and stargates are fundamentally the same.

If you bring a freighter through a wormhole, the full 960 million kgs are added to the wormholes mass limit before collapsing
If you bring a carrier through a wormhole, its mass is not multiplied due to a "foot print" when jumping through. If it was, a carrier would be the best thing to use to roll a hole.

So, seeing that this theory is limited to only star gates, I cannot see it holding.

Another thing to consider: the mass of all of the materials only made up less than 1% of the carriers actual mass. With 99% of it being unaccounted for, I think this left over mass would be the warp drive 'footprint' you are referring to. Therefore, with this warp drive footprint, the carrier is only 5% over the mass limit.

Thank you all for the responses! I do like thinking over different theories, possibilities, etc. But I still believe it is capsuleer made (with no CONCORD interferance) capital ship jump use hype!

Finally to answer Lors Dornicks question "what is it that you want to do?" I am not trying to change anything. This is all speculations and calculations. This is by no means a thread to tell CCP to let carriers into highsec.

A black ops ship is an upgrade from a battleship sized hull.
A Jump Freighter is an upgrade from a capital ship sized hull


https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Freighter
"They are capital sized ships and are very slow to move"

http://eve.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Jump_Freighters
"Their main change however, is a large portion of the cargo bay has been taken over by a capital class jump drive, the same type used in carriers, dreadnoughts, motherships and titans."

Use of a capital class jump drive + being a capital sized ship = capital ship

Fine, I take back what I said then, a black ops uses a capital jump drive. It's not a capital ship though, it's a modified battleship.

Then we're back to square one. If a capital sized ship is able to jump through a star gate, but a capital ship is not due to it's size, can you not see that there is an inconsistency there?

Ok, characteristics of capital ships that seperate them from subcaps:

- much larger (except for the freighter, you are putting it under the "sub cap" section here)
- can use a jump drive (barring the black ops ship)
- cannot use a star gate

so, the only characteristic of a capital ship that does not have another ship in the game that can do the same thing is being unable to use a stargate.

Why? CONCORD? Then we're back to square 2. Capsuleer made star gates will allow carriers and dreadnoughts through them, as CONCORD will have no say in what does and doesn't go through.

The reason is simple.

When capitals were introduced they could be built in and enter high sec. I believe that cyno's could also be lit in high sec. 100% of the player base could use them, as is fair since 100% of the player base pay for the development of EVE.

Now unfortunately, there is a very tiny whiny portion of the player base that feel entitled to 100% of the development of EVE while denying most of the development to the majority of the player base. Lets call this tiny portion Poop Socking Nerds or PSN's. The latter group we'll call the Ignored Subscribers of EvE or ISE's.

So when caps were released everything was fair, however the PSN's cried and whined and grovelled to CCP to make caps only available to them, and to remove caps from use by the ISE's. CCP being best mates with a lot of the PSN's (due to the way the company seems to mix inappropriately with PSN's - Case in Point Link) decided that was a good idea.

Some of the arguments were along the lines of Caps can do missions! Caps can insta-shot ships. Caps crash into stations (lore BS) but not really were worthy of the bytes they wasted on the interwebs. They were **** poor arguments made for the xpress purpose of removing content paid for by all and giving it to a very small segment of CCP's best mates - the PSN's or null sec crowd.

The simple fact is there is absolutely no reason for caps not to be able to enter high sec. But like everything in EVE if the PSN want something exclusively they're conveniently flown to Iceland every once in a while, likely go boozing with the devs after having their private chats and get what they want.

If CCP was to be transparent, fair and give everyone equal content for their subscriptions they would do away with their arbitrary prejudicial limitations, do away with their rigged system of "electing" CSM's (I'd be happy to volunteer to be a CSM, I have been playing since 2003, have a good understanding of the game, have alternate views about what should be happening, but currently while I could probably get 1k votes, the big alliances can get up to 37k x 3 (with alts)). So what you have is a CSM that is entirely for PSN's and nobody else.

In short if you want to know why anything in EVE is the way it is, look to the CSM, look to the alliance influence on CPP and look to the vote rigging whenever elections come around.

The best thing to do is ignore the CCP / Alliance Cronism and try to enjoy the game as best you can. Things won't change.

OP, it's just game mechanics.

A big hauler was needed to get stuff from Jita to Goonspace (for example) so CCP made one. There was also need to have a T2 Jump version, so CCP made one.

These ships were really big so CCP classed them erroneously as capitals. Not the first time they have managed to confuse the player base and not the last.

In any case, it's the way it is because it's the way it is. Simple as that. Like many other things in this game you just need to see something else when you see the word 'capital' in the freighter description. Like 'big' or something. It'll make things a lot easier for you.

Mr Epeen

ps. I like ur shades

Build a ship with capital construction parts, that requires the skill capital ship construction, and isn't a capital ship. TIL.

It's that annoying little thing that that's less important than the wildly popular gameplay enhancements such as the ESS. But, it can make the for the decent story that no one ever reads.

Yeah because carriers can use L4 acceleration gates...