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Get rid of or significantly lower PI taxes.
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#61 - 2014-02-05 18:26:10 UTC
Aneeda wrote:
Weaselior wrote:

the RvBee Customs Authority has instituted a 5% rate. this is why you only use genuine RvBee POCOs and not our competitors'


Its too bad there isn't an easy way to find POCO's by tax rate or by Alliance/Corp. If I knew you had a bunch of 5% POCOs near my area I would definitely become a customer.


5% + npc tax. So a minimum of 10%. (Just in case that wasn't clear. I do the same on my POCO. I suspect they make more, I've yet to recoup my investment)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#62 - 2014-02-05 21:23:52 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Aneeda wrote:
Weaselior wrote:

the RvBee Customs Authority has instituted a 5% rate. this is why you only use genuine RvBee POCOs and not our competitors'


Its too bad there isn't an easy way to find POCO's by tax rate or by Alliance/Corp. If I knew you had a bunch of 5% POCOs near my area I would definitely become a customer.


5% + npc tax. So a minimum of 10%. (Just in case that wasn't clear. I do the same on my POCO. I suspect they make more, I've yet to recoup my investment)


In my POCO owning experience, you don't recoup the POCO cost by taxing other players. You recoup the POCO cost by NOT paying the taxes you would otherwise have to pay.

If you can avoid 10% taxes on 5 toons exporting 200m in POCO materials every month, you'll recoup the cost very fast. As for taxing other players, keep it low. A 2% or less tax rate attracts others to utilize your POCO's and works as an reasonable hazardous pay bonus.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2014-02-06 14:35:54 UTC
01101989 wrote:
Dersk wrote:
01101989 wrote:
Other players shouldn't get to passively accumulate income through my hard work.


Then, don't let them have it. Such Simple.


I don't have the capability to pop POCOS. Newbs or newb corps are completely unable to engage in PI do to this. An entire aspect of the game completely pointless.



Join a group that can then.


"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
01101989
We're All Living In America
#64 - 2014-02-06 18:19:06 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
01101989 wrote:
Dersk wrote:
01101989 wrote:
Other players shouldn't get to passively accumulate income through my hard work.


Then, don't let them have it. Such Simple.


I don't have the capability to pop POCOS. Newbs or newb corps are completely unable to engage in PI do to this. An entire aspect of the game completely pointless.



Join a group that can then.




That's is the issue. Eve isn't just a multiplayer game. It's also a solo game as well. PI should be open to everyone just like mining is.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#65 - 2014-02-06 19:01:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
01101989 wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
01101989 wrote:
Dersk wrote:
01101989 wrote:
Other players shouldn't get to passively accumulate income through my hard work.


Then, don't let them have it. Such Simple.


I don't have the capability to pop POCOS. Newbs or newb corps are completely unable to engage in PI do to this. An entire aspect of the game completely pointless.



Join a group that can then.




That's is the issue. Eve isn't just a multiplayer game. It's also a solo game as well. PI should be open to everyone just like mining is.

Playing solo is viable in EVE. But it comes at a distinct disadvantage by design. You have to find your niches and make an effort compared to players teaming up. Team play is encouraged by CCP and that is a good thing. There are enough solo games out there.

Just look what Blizzard has done to WoW when they removed team play from basically everywhere but raids. It has become a hideous game.

Remove standings and insurance.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#66 - 2014-02-06 20:50:02 UTC
01101989 wrote:

That's is the issue. Eve isn't just a multiplayer game. It's also a solo game as well. PI should be open to everyone just like mining is.


MMO's are never solo games.

PI is open to anyone who desires.

What game have you actually been playing ??

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#67 - 2014-02-06 21:23:20 UTC
01101989 wrote:
That's is the issue. Eve isn't just a multiplayer game. It's also a solo game as well. PI should be open to everyone just like mining is.


PI is open in exactly that way. Owning POCOs are not. The later is not required for the former.

Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Just look what Blizzard has done to WoW when they removed team play from basically everywhere but raids. It has become a hideous game.


I remember when I first played you had to like, coordinate with your party for 5-man dungeons. In my subsequent visits to the game, I found elite quest mobs, and elite mobs in general were basically removed from open world pve, and any dungeon group you join has 0 communication and is just chain pulling the whole thing.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#68 - 2014-02-06 23:00:14 UTC
Batelle wrote:
01101989 wrote:
[quote=Mara Pahrdi]Just look what Blizzard has done to WoW when they removed team play from basically everywhere but raids. It has become a hideous game.


I remember when I first played you had to like, coordinate with your party for 5-man dungeons. In my subsequent visits to the game, I found elite quest mobs, and elite mobs in general were basically removed from open world pve, and any dungeon group you join has 0 communication and is just chain pulling the whole thing.

Add to that phasing, which means that you cannot interact with or even see other players anymore, that are not at the same point in a quest chain than you.

Or the atrocity of the dungeon finder and its kicking mechanic. And there's still a lot more one could list.

CCP may not get everything right. But at least there's some hope, that they won't go down the single player route too far.

Remove standings and insurance.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2014-02-06 23:19:49 UTC
01101989 wrote:


That's is the issue. Eve isn't just a multiplayer game. It's also a solo game as well. PI should be open to everyone just like mining is.


PI is still accessible. In fact in most cases your actual tax rate will be lower than the former NPC corp tax was. So your argument is a bit invalid.

And you pay taxes mining. Either when refining or when selling the ore on the market.
Marsan
#70 - 2014-02-07 00:48:33 UTC
Honestly PI in LS isn't that hard, and kind of fun. I've yet to lose a ship at it. You put a cloak, afterburn, and some stabs on a cheap indy do quick transfers at the POCO, and you are very hard to kill. Even if someone blows up your indy it's a couple million to replace. I'd use a T2 hauler, but their cost vs their marginal survivablity doesn't add up.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.
Far Wanderer
ACGM Acquisitions
#71 - 2014-02-07 02:58:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Far Wanderer
I'm sympathetic to the OP: when I came back to EVE I discovered quite after the fact that players, and not NPCs, owned the custom's offices and that up to 1/5 of the ISK my hard work was generating was going to players.

I had about the same reaction to this that the OP appears to have had.

But the upside is that the tax rates drove me to:

1. Experiment with different PI layouts.

2. Manufacture using Basic (and soon, Advanced) Industry Facilities

3. Look at the market to see what products I could make that were valuable enough to overcome the tax rate.

Thus, a post from earlier in this thread is about the best advice you'll get:
Ryder 'ook wrote:
I do PI in high sec.

Leave the vicinity of the large trade hubs and you will be able to find nice, quiet regions with very reasonable prices.

:snip:

Inform yourself, fly around and leave your comfort zone.
This.

Get out there, mix it up and try new things.

Part of the EVE experience is learning*. Enjoy that and you'll eventually overcome whatever costs associated with PI that you're incurring.

Good luck.


*Like shooting a Customs Office out of frustration, only to learn the local Mercenary/Criminal Corp owns it, and so I've given them kill rights on me for a month. Good times! ;)

I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#72 - 2014-02-07 04:30:59 UTC
01101989 wrote:
Dersk wrote:
01101989 wrote:
Other players shouldn't get to passively accumulate income through my hard work.


Then, don't let them have it. Such Simple.


I don't have the capability to pop POCOS. Newbs or newb corps are completely unable to engage in PI do to this. An entire aspect of the game completely pointless.



It would seem pointless if you have limited your own income by doing PI in High Sec.


You can do PI at very very low tax rates.

The problem is where you have chosen to do yours.




https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#73 - 2014-02-07 04:47:43 UTC
01101989 wrote:


That's is the issue. Eve isn't just a multiplayer game. It's also a solo game as well. PI should be open to everyone just like mining is.



You are wrong. It's an MMO - you need to find a good corp and with numbers you can get what you want.


In EVE:
The Best ship = Friendship.
Without the best ship - you can't win at eve.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Lido Seahawk
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2014-02-08 09:50:23 UTC
After the change, I ragequit all my highsec PI setups. Just skilled into a Prowler, lowsec here I come!

I have a sneaking suspicion that this is exactly what CCP wants me to do.... I feel so used! Ugh

May I have your stuff?
ST0NER SMURF
Vrix Nation
#75 - 2014-02-08 17:52:23 UTC
did nonen mention ya can bypass the poc and launch directly inspace ?

__________________________________________________________________ 

♫ When your pod gets blown to bits ♪♫ And you lose your implant fits ♪\☻/ Don't worry ♪ ♫ ♪ ♫♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ Be Happy \☻/
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#76 - 2014-02-09 00:30:11 UTC
Lido Seahawk wrote:
After the change, I ragequit all my highsec PI setups. Just skilled into a Prowler, lowsec here I come!

I have a sneaking suspicion that this is exactly what CCP wants me to do.... I feel so used! Ugh


Sometimes it can be fun to be "used" Blink
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#77 - 2014-02-09 17:12:47 UTC
Marsan wrote:
Honestly PI in LS isn't that hard, and kind of fun. I've yet to lose a ship at it. You put a cloak, afterburn, and some stabs on a cheap indy do quick transfers at the POCO, and you are very hard to kill. Even if someone blows up your indy it's a couple million to replace. I'd use a T2 hauler, but their cost vs their marginal survivablity doesn't add up.


Bull hockey !

The Covops Blockade Runners are almost impossible to catch. The Deep Space Transports are almost uncatchable with 3 additional Warp Stabs hanging off them.

Almost 4 years, 5 toons and 30 planets, all in Low, I've only lost one Bustard the entire time. And I know exactly how it happened.

To give your advice above, you must have been doing something wrong.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Zenito
Lekhantsi Salvage Depot
#78 - 2014-02-10 13:50:13 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:


Bull hockey !

The Covops Blockade Runners are almost impossible to catch. The Deep Space Transports are almost uncatchable with 3 additional Warp Stabs hanging off them.

Almost 4 years, 5 toons and 30 planets, all in Low, I've only lost one Bustard the entire time. And I know exactly how it happened.

To give your advice above, you must have been doing something wrong.


He doesn't seem to be doing anything wrong. As he says, he's yet to lose a ship at it. That's doing it right. And cheaply too.

Zenitoka Katanga

Clan Chieftain

"A fair bargain leaves both sides unhappy."
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#79 - 2014-02-10 15:33:06 UTC
01101989 wrote:
That's is the issue. Eve isn't just a multiplayer game. It's also a solo game as well. PI should be open to everyone just like mining is.


SInce Eve is a solo game I wonder if she's selling the stuff she gets from PI to herself or maybe CCP added NPC buyers? Lol
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#80 - 2014-02-10 17:16:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Zenito wrote:

He doesn't seem to be doing anything wrong. As he says, he's yet to lose a ship at it. That's doing it right. And cheaply too.


Excuse me, but the point of his quote (had you read it) is:

"I'd use a T2 hauler, but their cost vs their marginal survivablity doesn't add up."

It's a broad declaration about something that he has obviously not even tried and knows absolutely nothing about. Just a "fluff of a thought tossed off out into the Web"......and nothing more or better.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882