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Boarding a ship while its locked?

Author
Grim Dredtog
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#21 - 2014-01-31 15:32:34 UTC
Sentinel 7 wrote:
"We just tested this out due to a suicide gank which happened and the way they saved their freighter which had a suspect timer. "

Can you clarify this please. You don't get suspect flagged for being attacked (gank or otherwise), and you don't get ConCorded for attacking a suspect.


Neutral Freighter pilot landed, looted, went suspect to us, ejected and had another freighter pilot board, while locked mind you, and in doing so removing the suspect timer from him and his ship.
D3m0n sam
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2014-01-31 15:32:45 UTC  |  Edited by: D3m0n sam
Sentinel 7 wrote:
"We just tested this out due to a suicide gank which happened and the way they saved their freighter which had a suspect timer. "

Can you clarify this please. You don't get suspect flagged for being attacked (gank or otherwise), and you don't get ConCorded for attacking a suspect.


Right.

Story is freighter got suspect our guys started locking the freighter. Freighter pilot jumps out. NON-suspect pilot jumps into the freighter which then invalidates the suspect on the ship. Meaning if we point the freighter to kill it well we get concorded.
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#23 - 2014-01-31 15:35:42 UTC
Jamagh wrote:
Pretty sure that it is the PILOT not the SHIP that has the suspect timer. After all, the ship is not the one that did bad things. Do the cops arrest the car that was speeding? Or the driver?


If they take the suspect into custody they typically impound the car as well. They also confiscate all weapons utilized in a crime. Just saying.
Sentinel 7
Signal One.
#24 - 2014-01-31 15:38:43 UTC
Yeah, looks like there's an extra freighter missing from the original story, not just an extra freighter pilot. Not saying it makes the bug any better but when you petition stuff like this you need to be really clear on step by step details.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#25 - 2014-01-31 15:38:44 UTC
Sentinel 7 wrote:
Good work on not actually reading the thread Jamagh...

Issue - in the past you have been unable to board an locked ship. Now, it appears you can.

Consequence - a suspect / WT can now save their shiny ship by ejecting and having an unflagged mate hop in. Something they could not do before.

Query - is this intended?

Frak all do with cops and car chases, or tenuous "real world" analogies no matter how many CAPS you put in.
Doesn't sound like an exploit to me, and the point Jamagh puts across is simple. You guys are saying "supsect timer on a ship", well it's not on the ship, it's on the pilot. If the pilot gets a suspect timer, they can't just swap ships and lose it, otherwise they would just go suspect in a rookie ship, then swap to something else to fly away scott free.

So with the timer being on the pilot, if the pilot leave his ship and a non-suspect jumps in, the ship would not have a timer. The solution is to get in the ship yourself.

As for the ability to board a targeted ship, I'm not sure if it has changed, but you should be able to board a targeted ship anyway, it was always ******** that you couldn't. Any random could stop you boarding an empty ship by simply targeting it, and there was no way to stop them targeting it without hostile action.

D3m0n sam wrote:
All im saying is. basically you can just invalidate a suspect timer on a ship by just having a non-suspect pilot jump in. This is kinda bull **** for suicide ganking.
How does it do anything to suicide ganking? If you are suicide ganking, their suspect timer doesn't mean a thing.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#26 - 2014-01-31 15:39:00 UTC
Grim Dredtog wrote:



You didn't ask a question, you said that ships that are locked can be boarded by their owner, except this wasn't the owner, it was a completely different pilot

Tul Breetai wrote:
last time I reread you didn't say it was 10 seconds, correct?


D3m0n sam wrote:


Not butt hurt at all.

All im saying is. basically you can just invalidate a suspect timer on a ship by just having a non-suspect pilot jump in. This is kinda bull **** for suicide ganking.

Doesn't add up, you guys might have mixed up your timers. It'd have to be a really recent change that they're already aware of, because as of 2 or 3 days ago it was still impossible for a non-owner to enter a locked ship.

I wouldn't call this an exploit though, you played the mechanics game and lost is all.

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.

D3m0n sam
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-01-31 15:46:34 UTC
D3m0n sam wrote:
All im saying is. basically you can just invalidate a suspect timer on a ship by just having a non-suspect pilot jump in. This is kinda bull **** for suicide ganking.
How does it do anything to suicide ganking? If you are suicide ganking, their suspect timer doesn't mean a thing.[/quote]


Well think about it. We where about to point the freighter to get people to then kill it. However you switch pilot and get rid of the suspect on the freighter meaning it can run away without being contested.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#28 - 2014-01-31 15:52:06 UTC
D3m0n sam wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
D3m0n sam wrote:
All im saying is. basically you can just invalidate a suspect timer on a ship by just having a non-suspect pilot jump in. This is kinda bull **** for suicide ganking.
How does it do anything to suicide ganking? If you are suicide ganking, their suspect timer doesn't mean a thing.
Well think about it. We where about to point the freighter to get people to then kill it. However you switch pilot and get rid of the suspect on the freighter meaning it can run away without being contested.
That makes no sense. If it has a suspect timer, then it's not a suicide gank, that's just a kill. If you are suicide ganking then your target doesn't have a suspect timer to begin with.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

D3m0n sam
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-01-31 15:59:27 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
D3m0n sam wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
D3m0n sam wrote:
All im saying is. basically you can just invalidate a suspect timer on a ship by just having a non-suspect pilot jump in. This is kinda bull **** for suicide ganking.
How does it do anything to suicide ganking? If you are suicide ganking, their suspect timer doesn't mean a thing.
Well think about it. We where about to point the freighter to get people to then kill it. However you switch pilot and get rid of the suspect on the freighter meaning it can run away without being contested.

That makes no sense. If it has a suspect timer, then it's not a suicide gank, that's just a kill. If you are suicide ganking then your target doesn't have a suspect timer to begin with.


Yes but a kill which get nullified because they switch the pilot. Sorry but you should not be able to switch pilot just to get rid of a suspect of a ship. The target will have a suspect because he scooped the damn looted. The only one will not have suspect is the next freighter pilot who switches with the other one.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#30 - 2014-01-31 16:00:17 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
D3m0n sam wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
D3m0n sam wrote:
All im saying is. basically you can just invalidate a suspect timer on a ship by just having a non-suspect pilot jump in. This is kinda bull **** for suicide ganking.
How does it do anything to suicide ganking? If you are suicide ganking, their suspect timer doesn't mean a thing.
Well think about it. We where about to point the freighter to get people to then kill it. However you switch pilot and get rid of the suspect on the freighter meaning it can run away without being contested.
That makes no sense. If it has a suspect timer, then it's not a suicide gank, that's just a kill. If you are suicide ganking then your target doesn't have a suspect timer to begin with.


suspect timer is on the SECOND FREIGHTER that scooped the lewt from the first freighter
once you scoop lewt you get a suspect flag if you don't own the lewt

shoot suspect
suspect ejects
neut boards

ship no longer carries suspect flag for occupant
ship departs, jumps, slowburns, logoffskis

terrible gankers complain bitterly on forum
Le'Mon Tichim
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2014-01-31 16:07:22 UTC
Morganta wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
D3m0n sam wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
D3m0n sam wrote:
All im saying is. basically you can just invalidate a suspect timer on a ship by just having a non-suspect pilot jump in. This is kinda bull **** for suicide ganking.
How does it do anything to suicide ganking? If you are suicide ganking, their suspect timer doesn't mean a thing.
Well think about it. We where about to point the freighter to get people to then kill it. However you switch pilot and get rid of the suspect on the freighter meaning it can run away without being contested.
That makes no sense. If it has a suspect timer, then it's not a suicide gank, that's just a kill. If you are suicide ganking then your target doesn't have a suspect timer to begin with.


suspect timer is on the SECOND FREIGHTER that scooped the lewt from the first freighter
once you scoop lewt you get a suspect flag if you don't own the lewt

shoot suspect
suspect ejects
neut boards

ship no longer carries suspect flag for occupant
ship departs, jumps, slowburns, logoffskis

terrible gankers complain bitterly on forum


Demon has apparently done a HORRIBLE job of getting across that it was OUR freighter that got ganked.

This WHOLE thread is supposed to be about finding out if the "not allowed to board a ship that is targeted" mechanic has changed.

We're NOT bitter gankers, we're just trying to figure out why it happened.

Can you hear them? They are calling to us. It is beautiful. http://thegreattichim.wordpress.com/

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#32 - 2014-01-31 16:07:30 UTC
D3m0n sam wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
D3m0n sam wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
D3m0n sam wrote:
All im saying is. basically you can just invalidate a suspect timer on a ship by just having a non-suspect pilot jump in. This is kinda bull **** for suicide ganking.
How does it do anything to suicide ganking? If you are suicide ganking, their suspect timer doesn't mean a thing.
Well think about it. We where about to point the freighter to get people to then kill it. However you switch pilot and get rid of the suspect on the freighter meaning it can run away without being contested.

That makes no sense. If it has a suspect timer, then it's not a suicide gank, that's just a kill. If you are suicide ganking then your target doesn't have a suspect timer to begin with.
Yes but a kill which get nullified because they switch the pilot. Sorry but you should not be able to switch pilot just to get rid of a suspect of a ship. The target will have a suspect because he scooped the damn looted. The only one will not have suspect is the next freighter pilot who switches with the other one.
But it's not a suspect timer on the ship. It's a suspect timer on the pilot. If it was on the ship, then someone with a suspect timer could just swap ships and fly off with not a care in the world.

And kills get nullified. If you go to gank someone and they swap ships from an orca, you lose the gank. They thought about it, adapted and reacted faster than you did. That's EVE.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Morganta
The Greater Goon
#33 - 2014-01-31 16:10:51 UTC
nobody can tell you if the mechanic is correct or not because nobody in your group can actually express what EXACTLY happened

from START TO FINISH
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#34 - 2014-01-31 16:12:54 UTC
Jamagh wrote:
Pretty sure that it is the PILOT not the SHIP that has the suspect timer. After all, the ship is not the one that did bad things. Do the cops arrest the car that was speeding? Or the driver?


They do when it comes to concord and criminal timers.

But consistency? In MY eve?

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.

E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#35 - 2014-01-31 16:28:14 UTC
Loraine Gess wrote:
Yep, petition as exploit.

working as intended
Alice Ituin
Doomheim
#36 - 2014-01-31 17:43:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Alice Ituin
Morganta wrote:
nobody can tell you if the mechanic is correct or not because nobody in your group can actually express what EXACTLY happened

from START TO FINISH


lol, it's pretty obvious what happened to anyone who ever saw a freighter gank:
freighter get's bumped off the gate and calls his friends,
gankers bring in second freighter,
ganker kill first freighter,
second freighter scoops the loot and thus goes blinky,
friends of first freighter try to point second freighter to get the loot back
However gankers brought in second non-blinky pilot how boarded the second freighter after it's pilot became blinky and could freely warp off with the loot.


just out of curiosity: if you point the blinky freighter and THEN they do the switch..... do you then get concordokkened for aggressing the non blinky pilot or does the point just drop off immediately?
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#37 - 2014-01-31 17:56:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Alice Ituin wrote:
Morganta wrote:
nobody can tell you if the mechanic is correct or not because nobody in your group can actually express what EXACTLY happened

from START TO FINISH


lol, it's pretty obvious what happened to anyone who ever saw a freighter gank:
freighter get's bumped off the gate and calls his friends,
gankers bring in second freighter,
ganker kill first freighter,
second freighter scoops the loot and thus goes blinky,
friends of first freighter try to point second freighter to get the loot back
However gankers brought in second non-blinky pilot how boarded the second freighter after it's pilot became blinky and could freely warp off with the loot.


just out of curiosity: if you point the blinky freighter and THEN they do the switch..... do you then get concordokkened for aggressing the non blinky pilot or does the point just drop off immediately?



Since the "white hats" in this case were the people who lost their freighter, they, being white hats and therefore horrible evil carebears who are not only out to ruin the game with their carebearness but the entire world too (according to the usual screed of the leet highsec PVPer) probably had their buttons on green.

Oh, how dare they! They were supposed to get concorded to the gankers could point and laugh about that too.


Anyway, it looks like someone pulled a little trick. It's said that the owner of the ship can board it even if locked. So perhaps the gank squad made sure to use the alternate pilot that was NOT the owner and have the actual owner ready to take the ship back.


If this is the case, and doable, be ready to see this become as common as NRR.

Exploit?


Well, if the cops were chasing a car full of stolen loot, and the driver stops and gets out, and they see someone else jump in, do they just forget about the new driver?

Of course if this is an exploit or a bug, and it gets fixed by some "flagged cargo" mechanic ("possession of stolen property"), expect to see "flagged cargo suspect baiting" as the alpha aspies seek newer ways to bonk the other kids in the sandbox with the pail and shovel and then point and laugh.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-01-31 17:59:09 UTC
Jamagh wrote:
Pretty sure that it is the PILOT not the SHIP that has the suspect timer. After all, the ship is not the one that did bad things. Do the cops arrest the car that was speeding? Or the driver?

i'm not sure about who did all the evil things....

but if you are militia member and NPC attacks you and you eject from ship NPC still kills the ship. And yes, you get new NPC spawn

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Erufen Rito
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2014-01-31 18:03:01 UTC
This is a tactic that has been used since ages ago. Once I got baited into shooting a mission griefer. When I taunted him to pod me (on his cyclone) he did, and then boarded a rifter from the orca right next to us. Concord killed his rifter. When I petitioned it, the logs showed nothing.

This was way way before crimewatch and suspect timers and all this junk.

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165

Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#40 - 2014-01-31 18:12:57 UTC
- freighter gets ganked.

- freighter belonging to the gankers loots the wreck and get a suspect timer.

- that freighter is locked up and shot at

- pilot ejects

- freighter becomes object in space

- pilotless freighter is locked up - before another pod clicks "board"

- DESPITE being locked up, a new pilot gets in the freighter


If thats what happened, then I think that shouldn't be possible either. I wasnt there tho, so I have no idea how close this second freighterpilot was and how fast he was able to click "board" compared to the first pilot clicking "eject".
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