Player Features and Ideas Discussion

With respect, I don't think it's possible to discuss what effect the drone chips will have on the Nestor economy without discussing the comparative advantage of a Nestor over anything else.

Let's for argument's sake say that the Nestor drops to the same price as a dominix. Now ask me the question, "do you want 10 dominix or 10 Nestors in your fleet?"

Hmm.

I can make my dominix remote rep well enough, and I can make them push 800dps out to 70km at the same time, with instant alpha (no guns remember). If I do away with the RR, then the domis are doing 1000dps at 70km.

At the extreme edge of performance envelope (where I would certainly choose to deploy them), they will hit very hard indeed at a range at which a Nestor would be relegated to using guns or dropping down to a lower DPS sentry.

I still think I'd take the Dominix (although I agree that the argument could go either way at this price).

So I'm revising my clearing price for Nestors:
RR spider fleets: better than a RR tengu, so about 450m
Larger Fleets: No better than a dominix, so about 200m
Solo brawler: not as good as a rattlesnake, so about 250m

Average: ~300m

I agree with your estimate of a clearing price.

Where we diverge is the subject of whether this is acceptable for a brand new ship. What we're essentially saying is that the dear sisters have invested heavily in brand new tech, committing resources and time with the spectacular result of....

... inventing something that's no better than a ship they can buy from the Guristas, or indeed any other second hand ship merchant.

Why bother?

I really feel that if this ship is to avoid being overlooked as an irrelevant sideshow if should offer something more than this.

This would be good for CCP too. Their marketing folks could say, "Look! A new expansion with new and exciting ships offering abilities not seen before!" without the entire world of social media responding, "rubbish! it's just a crappy armour rattlesnake. Nothing new here."

Neither am I advocating power creep.

The Nestor could get a *whole* lot more powerful before coming close to the power brought to bear by a machariel, bhaalgorn or vindicator.

I welcome ships for new roles, and I appreciate that the natural role for the nestor currently is in small RR gangs.

But I have a problem with this. It's such a small niche area, and already handled admirably by many other ships. There are other avenues that could be explored in order to make the Nestor more interesting and more desirable than merely another RR standing-still doctrine.

The covops suggestion I have put forward is one of many ideas to further the ships' desirability and interest. It is by no means the only idea, but I do think it would make the Nestor more interesting than it currently is, without being in any way overpowered, regardless of price.

The competing clone-vat idea would make the Nestor so desirable in w-space that I would happily by them all, so that's probably OP.

The refitting bay idea is another interesting one. The ability to bring along a spare ship (say one cruiser only) in the belly of a Nestor might be very interesting in 0-sec and w-space when you're in a bubble and you need to reship fast to rejoin the fight. This could be *very* useful to small fleets who are away from home, maybe even useful enough to make it worth encumbering the fleet with a couple of battleships.

10 Nestors obviously considering they will outlast your RR domis. Better tanks, better reps, same drone damage application and similar drone range.

Its not even a contest. The only thing the Domi does better is cost less. If ISK isn't an issue then 10 Nestors every day of the week.

It's actually not that obvious or that simple. Dominixes have an optimal range and tracking bonus (50% at level 5) and therefore have the potential to out-range the Nestor fleet, not to mention they would apply their DPS better at any range. Dominix also have 7 Low slots compared to the Nestor's 6 and therefore can fit an additional DDA to also outdamage the nestor or just fit more tank.

What this means is that in a real PvP scenario where battleships are accompanied by support, the Dominix will fulfil its purpose far better. They can have dedicated RR that is far less vulnerable to damps and ecm in comparison to the Nestor fleet which needs to stay within 15km of each other (which would also make them more vulnerable to bombing runs).

The Nestor is in a really bad place and I wish people would stop denying it. A single Nestor is a joke (RR range + battleship mobility make it a questionable solo support ship). A pair of Nestors I can imagine would be pretty decent in a few scenarios but but a fleet of Nestors is outmatched by a fleet of Dominixes. So really this ship fulfils an incredibly small niche that isn't really that sought after in the first place.

The price of the Nestor just limits it to station spinning but isn't the core issue most players have with the ship.

Issues with the Nestor:
1. RR range limits its use tremendously
2. Laser bonus is a waste (it doesn't even have the powergrid to fit large lasers)
3. Scanning/Hacking bonus is arguably also a waste since who wouldn't use an Astereo or a Stratios instead?

So really what we have is a dominix with better RR at the cost of worse damage application AND the potential for either worse damage output or tank.

Want to make the Nestor better but not overpowered, more versatile but not to take away from other ships in class, worth the high price but not over price it, Make it Unique (good advertising for new players, good for existing players)

My thoughts;

Make it jump capable (as in blops)
Blops bonus to cloak (not covert)
2,000m fleet hanger
Fitting service (limited use for lowsec and 0.0 space)
Fitting bonus for Drone Control Units (maximum 3)

Bonuses;
Gallente Battleship; per level
Can fit 1 Drone Control unit per level once level 3 is reached (level 5 allows 3 DCU)
7.5% to Drone Damage and Hitpoints per level

Amarr Battleship; per level
4% to Armour Resists
40% Remote Armour Repairer range
10% to Remote Armour Repair Amount

Special Abilities;
Blackops Bonuses; per level
125% bonus to max velocity when cloaked
5% bonus to inertia modifier

Role Bonuses;
50% Strength to All Probes
10% to Relic and Data Analyzer strength
100% to Tractor Beam Range
200m Drone Bandwidth

To help fit story line;
SOE after further testing and feedback from their pilots have begun a recall of all Nestor Battleships for a major refit.
Details of this refit have been kept secret but expect something very different to any currently available ships in the Battleship class.

We can ninja the bear loot of rogue drones again.
YEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!

Do you really expect to see hundreds of Nestors in a fleet?
With my suggested changes to the Nestor I would see it used in Blops and exploration.
I would not expect to see Nestors as a fleet doctrine for the nulsec corps, therefore excessive server load should not be an issue..

I expect to rarely (if ever) see the Nestor.

If what they have done to the Worm is any indication, I'm not sure the Snake is going to have the same charm.

Drone drops may help pique interest in the nestor but it is still going to be a while before the price drops enough (at least half what it is now), for me at least, to even consider buying one.. There is nothing that really stands out and says - buy me, not a Domi