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Sentry drone nerf?
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Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#121 - 2014-01-30 05:42:55 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:


You've obviously not fought competent fleets with a Marauder. I have in a Golem and against people who know what they're doing your 1k dps will not do anything and your tank being active based is reliant purely on cargo hold. I had Oracles, SB, T3's, BC, legions with neut subs and had they not derped on the wormhole not realising I was a war target I would have died.

That was a 22k tank, 2900m3 cargo, duel XLASB setup doing 1100 dps. It was no where near sufficient to beat their local RR / nuets and EHP.


I don't need to say anything to that. I think that even attempting that engagement is a sign of pretty serious overpoweredness.

I would be very happy if I engaged a bait, had a falcon uncloak and a warp in hammer arrive, bastion to prevent the falcon doing anything and kill both the dps boats, and have the falcon escape, ie kill 2 and force one of the field. That to me is overpowered.

Had you won the engagement you described, I wouldn't see that as overpowered, I'd see that ridiculous and broken.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#122 - 2014-01-30 07:06:34 UTC
"You've obviously not fought 100mn Tengus with your Caracal. There's just no way you can win. Caracals are useless."

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Paranoid Loyd
#123 - 2014-01-30 08:48:16 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You've obviously not fought competent fleets with a Marauder. I have in a Golem and against people who know what they're doing your 1k dps will not do anything and your tank being active based is reliant purely on cargo hold. I had Oracles, SB, T3's, BC, legions with neut subs and had they not derped on the wormhole not realising I was a war target I would have died.

That was a 22k tank, 2900m3 cargo, duel XLASB setup doing 1100 dps. It was no where near sufficient to beat their local RR / nuets and EHP.


How could you possibly argue that you should be able to win this engagement?

This is just sad now. Ugh

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#124 - 2014-01-30 10:58:54 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You've obviously not fought competent fleets with a Marauder. I have in a Golem and against people who know what they're doing your 1k dps will not do anything and your tank being active based is reliant purely on cargo hold. I had Oracles, SB, T3's, BC, legions with neut subs and had they not derped on the wormhole not realising I was a war target I would have died.

That was a 22k tank, 2900m3 cargo, duel XLASB setup doing 1100 dps. It was no where near sufficient to beat their local RR / nuets and EHP.


How could you possibly argue that you should be able to win this engagement?

This is just sad now. Ugh


Whats sad is the I Win Button of bringing more people. Its why PvP in EvE is so mediocre. You take a look at Afghanistan or Iraq, where technology > bunch of dweebs with 1950's designed AK47's.

EVE PvP is about as intelligent as 100 low tech insurgents beating 50 high tech first world soldiers. Shouldn't happen simply because they bring more numbers of crappy ships. Just like in Iraq or Afghanistan, high tech should give similiar casualty results, 200 insurgents corpses for 20 coalition deaths. Instead, one of the newest, highest tech, super expensive machines quite literally fails to kill even one crappy 20 mill cruiser due to lame RR mechanics.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#125 - 2014-01-30 11:05:56 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
This is simply down to you picking fights you cannot win in poorly fitted ships.
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2014-01-30 11:22:50 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:


TL;DR:

This change doesn't suit me so it must be wrong.



Please...
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#127 - 2014-01-30 11:54:59 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You've obviously not fought competent fleets with a Marauder. I have in a Golem and against people who know what they're doing your 1k dps will not do anything and your tank being active based is reliant purely on cargo hold. I had Oracles, SB, T3's, BC, legions with neut subs and had they not derped on the wormhole not realising I was a war target I would have died.

That was a 22k tank, 2900m3 cargo, duel XLASB setup doing 1100 dps. It was no where near sufficient to beat their local RR / nuets and EHP.


How could you possibly argue that you should be able to win this engagement?

This is just sad now. Ugh


Whats sad is the I Win Button of bringing more people. Its why PvP in EvE is so mediocre. You take a look at Afghanistan or Iraq, where technology > bunch of dweebs with 1950's designed AK47's.

EVE PvP is about as intelligent as 100 low tech insurgents beating 50 high tech first world soldiers. Shouldn't happen simply because they bring more numbers of crappy ships. Just like in Iraq or Afghanistan, high tech should give similiar casualty results, 200 insurgents corpses for 20 coalition deaths. Instead, one of the newest, highest tech, super expensive machines quite literally fails to kill even one crappy 20 mill cruiser due to lame RR mechanics.


Except that this is a naval simulator, and cruisers engaging beyond their class is a common theme in naval history. The Graf Spee, Scharnhorst and Bismark all had very specific issues with being unable to deal with British cruisers, that either lead directly to their loss, or directly to them not completing their objective and then subsequently being lost.

If you visit London, you can actually go see the Belfast, which was part of a 3 cruiser force protecting a convoy that engaged and drove off the nominally superior and supposedly largely invulnerable to 8in gunfire Scharnhorst (after the Norfolk poked it squarely in its one good eye). ie there is a bit of cruiser history you might even be able to board on a tour.
Layla Firoue
Doomheim
#128 - 2014-01-30 13:58:05 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You've obviously not fought competent fleets with a Marauder. I have in a Golem and against people who know what they're doing your 1k dps will not do anything and your tank being active based is reliant purely on cargo hold. I had Oracles, SB, T3's, BC, legions with neut subs and had they not derped on the wormhole not realising I was a war target I would have died.

That was a 22k tank, 2900m3 cargo, duel XLASB setup doing 1100 dps. It was no where near sufficient to beat their local RR / nuets and EHP.


How could you possibly argue that you should be able to win this engagement?

This is just sad now. Ugh


Whats sad is the I Win Button of bringing more people. Its why PvP in EvE is so mediocre. You take a look at Afghanistan or Iraq, where technology > bunch of dweebs with 1950's designed AK47's.

EVE PvP is about as intelligent as 100 low tech insurgents beating 50 high tech first world soldiers. Shouldn't happen simply because they bring more numbers of crappy ships. Just like in Iraq or Afghanistan, high tech should give similiar casualty results, 200 insurgents corpses for 20 coalition deaths. Instead, one of the newest, highest tech, super expensive machines quite literally fails to kill even one crappy 20 mill cruiser due to lame RR mechanics.


Except that this is a naval simulator, and cruisers engaging beyond their class is a common theme in naval history. The Graf Spee, Scharnhorst and Bismark all had very specific issues with being unable to deal with British cruisers, that either lead directly to their loss, or directly to them not completing their objective and then subsequently being lost.

If you visit London, you can actually go see the Belfast, which was part of a 3 cruiser force protecting a convoy that engaged and drove off the nominally superior and supposedly largely invulnerable to 8in gunfire Scharnhorst (after the Norfolk poked it squarely in its one good eye). ie there is a bit of cruiser history you might even be able to board on a tour.



I too compare internet SPACE ships with WW2 SEA ships.
And to lump in the Graf Spee with Scharnhorst and Bismark Ugh
One was a cruiser class ship herself, the other was a battlecruiser and the third a fast battleship and circumstances were quite different with superior british forces always close by in all 3 cases as well as bad weather conditions for the Scharnhorst engagement and the cruisers shadowing the Bismark. Graf Spee was outnumbered.

But hey leave out the important parts.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#129 - 2014-01-30 14:08:34 UTC
Thomas Mickelson wrote:
Ok so I use a Myrmidon for ratting, I got 4 curators and can usually rip stuff up before the rats even get into lock on range.
Now all of a sudden they can't hit the broadside of a barn, and at that, Omnidirectional tracking links seem to be activitable now, and I thought they were passive before.

CCP plan to fix this? Or was this intentional?


My Vexor Navy is the same.

Pretty much any ship that doesn't have tracking and range bonuses are useless with sentrys.

Even with scripts, I miss half of the time.

But when you have someone with the brains of a stuffed animal making changes, what do you expect.
Frank Millar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2014-01-30 14:20:28 UTC
This thread delivers. Bear
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#131 - 2014-01-30 14:24:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You've obviously not fought competent fleets with a Marauder. I have in a Golem and against people who know what they're doing your 1k dps will not do anything and your tank being active based is reliant purely on cargo hold. I had Oracles, SB, T3's, BC, legions with neut subs and had they not derped on the wormhole not realising I was a war target I would have died.

That was a 22k tank, 2900m3 cargo, duel XLASB setup doing 1100 dps. It was no where near sufficient to beat their local RR / nuets and EHP.


How could you possibly argue that you should be able to win this engagement?

This is just sad now. Ugh


Whats sad is the I Win Button of bringing more people. Its why PvP in EvE is so mediocre. You take a look at Afghanistan or Iraq, where technology > bunch of dweebs with 1950's designed AK47's.

EVE PvP is about as intelligent as 100 low tech insurgents beating 50 high tech first world soldiers. Shouldn't happen simply because they bring more numbers of crappy ships. Just like in Iraq or Afghanistan, high tech should give similiar casualty results, 200 insurgents corpses for 20 coalition deaths. Instead, one of the newest, highest tech, super expensive machines quite literally fails to kill even one crappy 20 mill cruiser due to lame RR mechanics.


Speaking as a soldier, you are a ******* idiot.

We always tried to outnumber them if we could, and bring way more heat if we couldn't. That's why half of our doctrine is mobility, the other half to bring the hammer down with the most possible force.

Now, speaking as a gamer... you're still a ******* idiot.

You're literally telling me that pricetag should trump everything else. If you can't realize just how goddamn stupid that is, then you are beyond all help.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#132 - 2014-01-30 14:24:49 UTC
So now that the Halloween war is over, can we nerf drone-assist without all the tears?

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#133 - 2014-01-30 14:28:45 UTC
Vald Tegor wrote:

Pre patch Garde with two omnis
45.6 Optimal + 12k falloff ~ 50 k effective range, half dmg at ~ 58k, 0 dmg at 70k

Post patch Garde with two omnis range scripted
39K Optimal + 19.7 falloff ~46 k effective range, half dmg at ~ 58k, 0 dmg at 78k

No, the sky didn't fall range wise on "unbonused" boats.

What the patch did hurt, is your ability to actually track small, high transversal targets maintaining that 50km range. Which was part of the problem with drone boats overperforming, particularly the range and tracking bonused hulls. When it comes to tracking a target at a more reasonable range, switching to tracking scripts nets you a 9.35% buff before overheating.

Care to elaborate what PvE content features small signature hostiles orbiting at 50+km, making unbonused ships with the new Omni useless? Furthermore, why should battleship class guns be used to fire at them, instead of switching to a more reasonable anti-frigate drone choice or using the high slots? After all, the sentry Myrm is little more than the drone version of a 6 gun Talos. Would you expect a blaster Talos to track sig tanking frigates at 50+km?



Seems you have stuffing for brains also.

Vexor Navy, 2 omni's.

Garde II 34.4km+15.5km (pyfa)

You mention nothing about tracking, but then you have no clue cause you haven't tried it.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#134 - 2014-01-30 14:35:09 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
So now that the Halloween war is over, can we nerf drone-assist without all the tears?


Start another goon tears thread and leave this one alone.

Not like you haven't had enough of them.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#135 - 2014-01-30 14:48:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Layla Firoue wrote:

I too compare internet SPACE ships with WW2 SEA ships.
And to lump in the Graf Spee with Scharnhorst and Bismark Ugh
One was a cruiser class ship herself, the other was a battlecruiser and the third a fast battleship and circumstances were quite different with superior british forces always close by in all 3 cases as well as bad weather conditions for the Scharnhorst engagement and the cruisers shadowing the Bismark. Graf Spee was outnumbered.

But hey leave out the important parts.


What important parts ? All of those German ships were directly superior to any individual unit they faced in the actions I chose to highlight, all of the actions included cruisers being fired at, and none of them were sunk. In any case the deck and hull armored pocket battleship intended to directly outclass a treaty cruiser that could catch it was designed with the specific shortcoming of being damn expensive, and thus history found it being caught by 3 cheap treaty cruisers, rather than the 1 on 1 which the designers anticipated.

The parallel with Zionas situation is obvious, she had a ship that would win many 1 on 3s, but found itself facing what sounds like 1 on 7, including spaceship pixel submarine specific heavy units aka strategic cruisers.

This game -is inspired by naval conflict- deal with it.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#136 - 2014-01-30 14:50:27 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:



Seems you have stuffing for brains also.

Vexor Navy, 2 omni's.

Garde II 34.4km+15.5km (pyfa)

You mention nothing about tracking, but then you have no clue cause you haven't tried it.


Instead of insulting people, how about you load the scripts into them.Roll
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#137 - 2014-01-30 14:54:19 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:



Seems you have stuffing for brains also.

Vexor Navy, 2 omni's.

Garde II 34.4km+15.5km (pyfa)

You mention nothing about tracking, but then you have no clue cause you haven't tried it.


Instead of insulting people, how about you load the scripts into them.Roll



Oh yea, what was I thinking. Idiot.

Garde II Targeting Scripts 30+13 Tracking .0708
Garde II Range Scripts 39+19.7 Tracking .0432

Now you go out and test it. See what you hit.

Let alone Bouncer, Warden, Curator.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#138 - 2014-01-30 14:58:00 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Vald Tegor wrote:

Pre patch Garde with two omnis
45.6 Optimal + 12k falloff ~ 50 k effective range, half dmg at ~ 58k, 0 dmg at 70k

Post patch Garde with two omnis range scripted
39K Optimal + 19.7 falloff ~46 k effective range, half dmg at ~ 58k, 0 dmg at 78k

No, the sky didn't fall range wise on "unbonused" boats.

What the patch did hurt, is your ability to actually track small, high transversal targets maintaining that 50km range. Which was part of the problem with drone boats overperforming, particularly the range and tracking bonused hulls. When it comes to tracking a target at a more reasonable range, switching to tracking scripts nets you a 9.35% buff before overheating.

Care to elaborate what PvE content features small signature hostiles orbiting at 50+km, making unbonused ships with the new Omni useless? Furthermore, why should battleship class guns be used to fire at them, instead of switching to a more reasonable anti-frigate drone choice or using the high slots? After all, the sentry Myrm is little more than the drone version of a 6 gun Talos. Would you expect a blaster Talos to track sig tanking frigates at 50+km?



Seems you have stuffing for brains also.

Vexor Navy, 2 omni's.

Garde II 34.4km+15.5km (pyfa)

You mention nothing about tracking, but then you have no clue cause you haven't tried it.


I have retired my Proteus, as hits against Tyrants, etc, that orbit at 49 km, is awful compared to Monday.
And for trying to shoot stuff further out, before it can shoot me, forget it.

Also, now, I have cap issues on a ship that was barely stable.
And also another "feature", this nerf provided, is the major lag out when swapping targets to frigs from longer range targets.

Of course, the CCP apologists will say "whaa whaa, guns have this issue already".
Of course, we all know about the drawbacks that sentries already imposed on a pilot, before the nerf, making the gun comparison completely idiotic, but these devs and their apologists never let facts get in the way of ideology.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#139 - 2014-01-30 15:11:26 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Vald Tegor wrote:

Pre patch Garde with two omnis
45.6 Optimal + 12k falloff ~ 50 k effective range, half dmg at ~ 58k, 0 dmg at 70k

Post patch Garde with two omnis range scripted
39K Optimal + 19.7 falloff ~46 k effective range, half dmg at ~ 58k, 0 dmg at 78k

No, the sky didn't fall range wise on "unbonused" boats.

What the patch did hurt, is your ability to actually track small, high transversal targets maintaining that 50km range. Which was part of the problem with drone boats overperforming, particularly the range and tracking bonused hulls. When it comes to tracking a target at a more reasonable range, switching to tracking scripts nets you a 9.35% buff before overheating.

Care to elaborate what PvE content features small signature hostiles orbiting at 50+km, making unbonused ships with the new Omni useless? Furthermore, why should battleship class guns be used to fire at them, instead of switching to a more reasonable anti-frigate drone choice or using the high slots? After all, the sentry Myrm is little more than the drone version of a 6 gun Talos. Would you expect a blaster Talos to track sig tanking frigates at 50+km?



Seems you have stuffing for brains also.

Vexor Navy, 2 omni's.

Garde II 34.4km+15.5km (pyfa)

You mention nothing about tracking, but then you have no clue cause you haven't tried it.


I have retired my Proteus, as hits against Tyrants, etc, that orbit at 49 km, is awful compared to Monday.
And for trying to shoot stuff further out, before it can shoot me, forget it.

Also, now, I have cap issues on a ship that was barely stable.
And also another "feature", this nerf provided, is the major lag out when swapping targets to frigs from longer range targets.

Of course, the CCP apologists will say "whaa whaa, guns have this issue already".
Of course, we all know about the drawbacks that sentries already imposed on a pilot, before the nerf, making the gun comparison completely idiotic, but these devs and their apologists never let facts get in the way of ideology.


Well, yea, the concept that closer range weapons require more tracking eludes them, so yea, lets nerf range and tracking at the same time. In a weapon that suffers largely from tracking issues in the first place.
Effect One
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#140 - 2014-01-30 15:37:15 UTC
So basically, omnis have now been brought in line with tracking computers. Seems fair to me.

'This might be internet spaceships, but it's not rocket science to protect yourself and fly with a little common sense' - CCP Falcon