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Sentry drone nerf?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#61 - 2014-01-29 21:59:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
In other words, the sentry is nerf is what the US Congress would call "pork." It was something slipped in under the radar because they knew no one would like it, and they didn't want to hear us complaining about unit after it was already shoved down our throats.
…which they did by having a very long, actively monitored, official thread on the topic where they informed anyone who wanted to listen about the changes and received both complaints and suggestions.

Just because you didn't turn your radar on doesn't mean they tried to slip anything in under it.
Quote:
there was no mention of yet another drone nerf until the patch notes came out.
…except for in the usual channels. Long before the fact. As usual.

Infinity Ziona wrote:
Then CCP comes along and reinvents the game, not small adjustments, but huge sweeping adjustments, sometimes they invalidate an entire line of ships / modules / skills without any regard for the customers who were unfortunate enough to have put their skills into those areas.
When did this ever happen?
ashley Eoner
#62 - 2014-01-29 22:07:17 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
In other words, the sentry is nerf is what the US Congress would call "pork." It was something slipped in under the radar because they knew no one would like it, and they didn't want to hear us complaining about unit after it was already shoved down our throats.
…which they did by having a very long, actively monitored, official thread on the topic where they informed anyone who wanted to listen about the changes and received both complaints and suggestions.

Just because you didn't turn your radar on doesn't mean they tried to slip anything in under it.
Quote:
there was no mention of yet another drone nerf until the patch notes came out.
…except for in the usual channels. Long before the fact. As usual.

Infinity Ziona wrote:
Then CCP comes along and reinvents the game, not small adjustments, but huge sweeping adjustments, sometimes they invalidate an entire line of ships / modules / skills without any regard for the customers who were unfortunate enough to have put their skills into those areas.
When did this ever happen?

Are you talking about the thread where Fozzie stated the changes and then refused to respond to the reasonable concerns that were expressed?
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#63 - 2014-01-29 22:09:06 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Chase the FOTM long enough and you'll have everything anyway.


Or in my case, stubbornly fly the same thing until it becomes the FOTM.

That's how I ended up shooting lasers at Angels and Guristas for a while Ugh

Infinity Ziona wrote:
[quote=Signal11th]
Yeah this.

CCP have little ability at self control. When you create a product for a customer and you offer them choices which are not reimbursable then you should do your best when reassessing your products to have as little impact on those choices as possible.

We pay a subscription, in real dollars, for that money we're given a finite number of skillpoints that we earn per recurring subscription. We can take those skill-points and apply them to a skill, there is no option to have those skill points back.

Then CCP comes along and reinvents the game, not small adjustments, but huge sweeping adjustments, sometimes they invalidate an entire line of ships / modules / skills without any regard for the customers who were unfortunate enough to have put their skills into those areas.

When CCP does this they should a) refund the money we paid for those skillpoints or better b) reimburse the skillpoints. That they do neither is disrespectful and dishonest to their customer base.

IMO

So by your logic, I should have been reimbursed for all my laser and Amarr training when the Domi and Ishtar were ridiculously buffed. I could then put those skillpoints into drones and Gallente hulls. Now that they are being nerfed to bring them in line, I should be reimbursed all those skill points again, so that I can put them towards flying a Minmatar Dreadnaught.

c/d?
Josef Djugashvilis
#64 - 2014-01-29 22:27:20 UTC
Kalb777 wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Sentries are so last year.

It's all about light combat drones now. Trust me.

Mr Epeen Cool


Wrong......It is all about TP's nowSmile


Shhhh, CCP wil hear you and nerf TPs.

CCP have made a complete hash of drones over the past 14 months or so.

They changed the AI to target drones before making any real attempt to improve the drone UI - cart before horse.

Medium and light drones got targeted and smashed far too easily, heavies just became a joke, so folk moved to sentry drones.

So CCP have now nerfed sentry drones as well.

CCP gave the Dominix a 10% tracking bonus, changed to 7.50% shortly thereafter.

That drones have been meddled with so much over the past year or so, shows that CCP (in some cases) tends to act first and think later - cart before horse.

Oh well, adapt or die.

Or both.

This is not a signature.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#65 - 2014-01-29 22:40:01 UTC
Death to all drones!

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#66 - 2014-01-29 23:14:45 UTC
Jill Chastot wrote:
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
I suppose asking for a refund on all my sentry drone SP so I can put it into basic gunnery is out of the question?


Ah, so you were using drones for 'efficiency' rather than simply for the love of the little rascals Sad


Remember, a drone is for life, not just for one mission.


Spoken like a true Gallente <3


I spend a few hours each week scanning for poor, cold, lost drones that uncaring people have left out in the depths of space and taking them into the warmth for maintenance and cleaning. You should see them happily frolicking when they realise they're going to be useful once more.


Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Death to all drones!


Shocked Sinner! Sad
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2014-01-29 23:23:06 UTC
Vald Tegor wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Chase the FOTM long enough and you'll have everything anyway.


Or in my case, stubbornly fly the same thing until it becomes the FOTM.

That's how I ended up shooting lasers at Angels and Guristas for a while Ugh

Infinity Ziona wrote:
[quote=Signal11th]
Yeah this.

CCP have little ability at self control. When you create a product for a customer and you offer them choices which are not reimbursable then you should do your best when reassessing your products to have as little impact on those choices as possible.

We pay a subscription, in real dollars, for that money we're given a finite number of skillpoints that we earn per recurring subscription. We can take those skill-points and apply them to a skill, there is no option to have those skill points back.

Then CCP comes along and reinvents the game, not small adjustments, but huge sweeping adjustments, sometimes they invalidate an entire line of ships / modules / skills without any regard for the customers who were unfortunate enough to have put their skills into those areas.

When CCP does this they should a) refund the money we paid for those skillpoints or better b) reimburse the skillpoints. That they do neither is disrespectful and dishonest to their customer base.

IMO

So by your logic, I should have been reimbursed for all my laser and Amarr training when the Domi and Ishtar were ridiculously buffed. I could then put those skillpoints into drones and Gallente hulls. Now that they are being nerfed to bring them in line, I should be reimbursed all those skill points again, so that I can put them towards flying a Minmatar Dreadnaught.

c/d?

No. They should not be ridiculously nerfed, or ridiculously buffed in the first place.

You make a game, you set rules, half way through you don't reinvent everything, over and over and over. Sure, add something to the game, leave the other stuff the hell alone if its not broken.

Its pretty basic customer service. I likely have paid CCP thousands of dollars for Infinity Ziona and her skillpoints and a large % of those skillpoints I paid for are useless.

Idiots will come here and argue that you pay for play, however that's not true, you pay for the subscription, along with that subscription you receive a % of skillpoints that you can allocate, there is no requirement to play, many subscribers only log in to set skills, they don't log in to play and that is part of the agreement between CCP and the subscriber.

If I spend 20 dollars per month over 12 months to train up a character that is great at stealth-bombers and then suddenly stealth bombers suck because CCP dramatically changed the code so stealth bombers are no longer useful then yes they should refund the skillpoints or they've just pretty much ripped me off 240 dollars since I gave them the cash for something that I didn't receive - the stealth bomber with the skillpoints and the performance that I was to get when I invested those skillpoints.

In your example this doesn't apply - something is buffed and made awesome, whereas your skillpoints were invested elsewhere since you paid for those skillpoints, they are where you chose to put them and you have what you intended to have at the end of the period of subscription.

For a real world example consider the following:

I buy a car but I have to pay it off over 12 months before I can take it. Its a V6, Twin Turbo, Can do 8 second Qtr mile. At the end of the 12 months after having paid the payments I get my car, its now a 4 cylinder, single turbo and does 13 seconds.

Is that fair?

EVE is about planning, and its about investing skillpoints (and real money) into a long term plan. These ad hoc bullcrap changes without any reimbursements are very poor customer service and a ripoff.



CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#68 - 2014-01-29 23:26:28 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:


EVE is about planning, and its about investing skillpoints (and real money) into a long term plan. These ad hoc bullcrap changes without any reimbursements are very poor customer service and a ripoff.





Dont chase the FOTM and you wont get burned. Those SP you have in sentries are still good to have.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2014-01-29 23:29:06 UTC
The omni nerf isn't bad at all. I say this as someone who JUST finished training an alt for a sentry Archon.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2014-01-29 23:30:18 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:


EVE is about planning, and its about investing skillpoints (and real money) into a long term plan. These ad hoc bullcrap changes without any reimbursements are very poor customer service and a ripoff.





Dont chase the FOTM and you wont get burned. Those SP you have in sentries are still good to have.

I don't specifically for that reason. It still does not make what CCP does right.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#71 - 2014-01-29 23:38:57 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I don't specifically for that reason. It still does not make what CCP does right.


CCP fixing balance issues is always right.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2014-01-29 23:48:53 UTC
IZ at what she does best again.

Nothing. ^_^

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#73 - 2014-01-29 23:49:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:


EVE is about planning, and its about investing skillpoints (and real money) into a long term plan. These ad hoc bullcrap changes without any reimbursements are very poor customer service and a ripoff.





Dont chase the FOTM and you wont get burned. Those SP you have in sentries are still good to have.

I don't specifically for that reason. It still does not make what CCP does right.


No - because in 2009, droneboats were terrible. 2 sentry rigs and 2 magstabs was the domi fit. The ishtar was full passive with heavies.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#74 - 2014-01-29 23:50:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You make a game, you set rules, half way through you don't reinvent everything, over and over and over. Sure, add something to the game, leave the other stuff the hell alone if its not broken.
…and again, when has that ever happened? Aside from sov, which was (and remains) broken, and exploration that offered little to no actual gameplay in the earlier versions, what has been reinvented (especially “over and over and over”)?

Quote:
EVE is about planning, and its about investing skillpoints (and real money) into a long term plan.
…and short of the stuff being outright removed from the game, that planning pays off. In fact, even if the stuff gets outright removed, the planning pays off since they're reimburse your SP if that happens. If your plan does not take into account CCP's explicit policy of constant and revolving balancing in order to maintain a persistent dynamic in fittings and doctrines, then that just means your couldn't plan for crap to begin with.

Quote:
It still does not make what CCP does right.
How so? Why is it wrong to balance content?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2014-01-30 00:50:30 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You make a game, you set rules, half way through you don't reinvent everything, over and over and over. Sure, add something to the game, leave the other stuff the hell alone if its not broken.
…and again, when has that ever happened? Aside from sov, which was (and remains) broken, and exploration that offered little to no actual gameplay in the earlier versions, what has been reinvented (especially “over and over and over”)?

Quote:
EVE is about planning, and its about investing skillpoints (and real money) into a long term plan.
…and short of the stuff being outright removed from the game, that planning pays off. In fact, even if the stuff gets outright removed, the planning pays off since they're reimburse your SP if that happens. If your plan does not take into account CCP's explicit policy of constant and revolving balancing in order to maintain a persistent dynamic in fittings and doctrines, then that just means your couldn't plan for crap to begin with.

Quote:
It still does not make what CCP does right.
How so? Why is it wrong to balance content?

You're obviously trolling I guess. Just a few examples of people training for things that are now useless.

Titan doomsday...
Solo battleships (solo anything bigger than cruiser really)
Torpedo's
OGB (soon to be nerfed)
Shield compensation skills
HLML

There is nothing wrong with balancing content however CCP does not balance content they change it dramatically and that imbalances something else which then becomes FotM. In time that FotM will catch the attention of CCP and they'll make some absurd change that invalidates the skillpoints people have invested making something else FotM.

Its been going on for 10 years. Ridiculous changes (like the 40 sec reload of HLML).

Take a look at the history of weapons lol. The age of missiles, the age of hybrids, the age of lazers, the age of projectiles... at each point instead of balance they screwed up 3 systems to make one system overpowered to the extend they were mandatory to train as a FotM wep.

A contemporary issue is of course armor over shields in fleet fights atm. When the hell will we have a balanced system where each module, doctrine, type of play is remotely balanced, its been 10 years....







CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Paranoid Loyd
#76 - 2014-01-30 00:55:43 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Just a few examples of people training for things that are now useless.


Solo battleships (solo anything bigger than cruiser really)




How does one train for solo battleships, is this a skill I am unaware of? Roll

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#77 - 2014-01-30 01:02:13 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You make a game, you set rules, half way through you don't reinvent everything, over and over and over. Sure, add something to the game, leave the other stuff the hell alone if its not broken.
…and again, when has that ever happened? Aside from sov, which was (and remains) broken, and exploration that offered little to no actual gameplay in the earlier versions, what has been reinvented (especially “over and over and over”)?

Quote:
EVE is about planning, and its about investing skillpoints (and real money) into a long term plan.
…and short of the stuff being outright removed from the game, that planning pays off. In fact, even if the stuff gets outright removed, the planning pays off since they're reimburse your SP if that happens. If your plan does not take into account CCP's explicit policy of constant and revolving balancing in order to maintain a persistent dynamic in fittings and doctrines, then that just means your couldn't plan for crap to begin with.

Quote:
It still does not make what CCP does right.
How so? Why is it wrong to balance content?

You're obviously trolling I guess. Just a few examples of people training for things that are now useless.

Titan doomsday...
Solo battleships (solo anything bigger than cruiser really)
Torpedo's
OGB (soon to be nerfed)
Shield compensation skills
HLML

There is nothing wrong with balancing content however CCP does not balance content they change it dramatically and that imbalances something else which then becomes FotM. In time that FotM will catch the attention of CCP and they'll make some absurd change that invalidates the skillpoints people have invested making something else FotM.

Its been going on for 10 years. Ridiculous changes (like the 40 sec reload of HLML).

Take a look at the history of weapons lol. The age of missiles, the age of hybrids, the age of lazers, the age of projectiles... at each point instead of balance they screwed up 3 systems to make one system overpowered to the extend they were mandatory to train as a FotM wep.

A contemporary issue is of course armor over shields in fleet fights atm. When the hell will we have a balanced system where each module, doctrine, type of play is remotely balanced, its been 10 years....









Change happened in a MMO. News at 11.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2014-01-30 01:04:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Just a few examples of people training for things that are now useless.


Solo battleships (solo anything bigger than cruiser really)




How does one train for solo battleships, is this a skill I am unaware of? Roll

One decides they will solo in battleships and then trains the skills required to use battleships. Its not rocket science, battleships don't use rockets.


Frostys Virpio wrote:

Change happened in a MMO. News at 11.

Change is fine. Reinvention on top of reinvention negatively affecting customers unnecessarily is not.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Paranoid Loyd
#79 - 2014-01-30 01:06:56 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Just a few examples of people training for things that are now useless.


Solo battleships (solo anything bigger than cruiser really)




How does one train for solo battleships, is this a skill I am unaware of? Roll

One decides they will solo in battleships and then trains the skills required to use battleships. Its not rocket science, battleships don't use rockets.


So your battleship skills are completely useless because you can't solo in your battleship? Roll

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2014-01-30 01:13:31 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Just a few examples of people training for things that are now useless.


Solo battleships (solo anything bigger than cruiser really)




How does one train for solo battleships, is this a skill I am unaware of? Roll

One decides they will solo in battleships and then trains the skills required to use battleships. Its not rocket science, battleships don't use rockets.


So your battleship skills are completely useless because you can't solo in your battleship? Roll

Exactly.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)