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Sentry drone nerf?
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#201 - 2014-02-05 15:01:12 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone.

I want to officially clarify that the fact that drone attributes are not properly displaying in show info is a bug and that your Omnis are in fact applying their bonuses correctly.
The issue with show info is a long standing bug that has to do with the way the client displays attributes on items that aren't your ship (or directly fitted to your ship). We're looking into getting it fixed, but it's not a simple issue.

As for the discussion on the strength of Sentry drones after this change, I will reiterate what I've said before. We don't want to make Sentries just like other weapons, the fact that they are very distinct with their own strengths, weaknesses and tactics is part of what makes them valuable to the game. We do always want to ensure that they have excellent strengths to make up for their special weaknesses.
But the honest truth is that Sentries were too good relative to other comparable weapons. Their damage envelope (the combination of range, damage and tracking) is very good and was one of several contributing factors that were leading to Sentries becoming overly dominant in almost all areas of EVE. Like I said in the original post, the fact that these changes reduce the power of Omnis is completely intentional.
Nerfing the base stats of sentries while leaving the incredibly effective Omnis was not going to be the best way to approach the issue, as that would leave us in a place where Sentries would have been underpowered when no Omnis are fitted and overpowered when people stack lots of them. We totally understand that bringing Omnidirectionals in line was a bitter pill to swallow for people who use Sentries a lot, but we are confident that the game is in a better place with these changes then it would be without them.

There are obviously lots of other changes we need to make to drones and the ships that use them, but the best way to approach these kinds of issues is in an iterative manner, making focused changes and watching the results carefully.

We also are aware that the Rattlesnake isn't in quite as strong of a place as many other Pirate BS right now, and that is high on our agenda at the moment.


So yes, there has been a nerf.


And yes, the dev in question has zero clue about "balancing" weapon systems, and thinks wiping out the effectiveness of a weapon system that people throw millions of SP into and buy billions of ISK of ships dedicated to using that weapon system, all to cater to a vocal whiny bunch of null sec blobbers, is perfectly reasonable.
Cyrek Ohaya
Blazing Sun Group
#202 - 2014-02-05 15:44:07 UTC
Launcher/Turret projection has been nerfed in the past, and now sentry drones, and I don't think now it isn't the time to play victim, still, makes me wonder if CCP wants to tone down general damage projection but keep all EWAR ranges untouched.

This drone update might have come a little too harsh but don't you think 179km Wardens 3 omnis without rigs sounded a lot nasty?
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#203 - 2014-02-05 16:18:23 UTC
Cyrek Ohaya wrote:
Launcher/Turret projection has been nerfed in the past, and now sentry drones, and I don't think now it isn't the time to play victim, still, makes me wonder if CCP wants to tone down general damage projection but keep all EWAR ranges untouched.

This drone update might have come a little too harsh but don't you think 179km Wardens 3 omnis without rigs sounded a lot nasty?


You can pick an choose your examples all day.
Don't you think rails at 200 km is a bit nasty?
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#204 - 2014-02-05 16:24:16 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
I suppose asking for a refund on all my sentry drone SP so I can put it into basic gunnery is out of the question?


So what you're saying is you trained the minimum skills to use the ship, modules, and drones, did not train support skills, and expect said equipment to function as well as before after they are properly balanced.

Train the damn support skills.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#205 - 2014-02-05 16:27:49 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
I suppose asking for a refund on all my sentry drone SP so I can put it into basic gunnery is out of the question?


So what you're saying is you trained the minimum skills to use the ship, modules, and drones, did not train support skills, and expect said equipment to function as well as before after they are properly balanced.

Train the damn support skills.


I have 121 M SP.
You can see all my skills on Chribba's Eveboard.
My ship support skills are PERFECT, as in all 5's.

And yes, I would indeed like the millions of SP I put into drones back to apply to other ships, now that drones are utterly useless in a PvE environment.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#206 - 2014-02-05 16:28:54 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone.

I want to officially clarify that the fact that drone attributes are not properly displaying in show info is a bug and that your Omnis are in fact applying their bonuses correctly.
The issue with show info is a long standing bug that has to do with the way the client displays attributes on items that aren't your ship (or directly fitted to your ship). We're looking into getting it fixed, but it's not a simple issue.

As for the discussion on the strength of Sentry drones after this change, I will reiterate what I've said before. We don't want to make Sentries just like other weapons, the fact that they are very distinct with their own strengths, weaknesses and tactics is part of what makes them valuable to the game. We do always want to ensure that they have excellent strengths to make up for their special weaknesses.
But the honest truth is that Sentries were too good relative to other comparable weapons. Their damage envelope (the combination of range, damage and tracking) is very good and was one of several contributing factors that were leading to Sentries becoming overly dominant in almost all areas of EVE. Like I said in the original post, the fact that these changes reduce the power of Omnis is completely intentional.
Nerfing the base stats of sentries while leaving the incredibly effective Omnis was not going to be the best way to approach the issue, as that would leave us in a place where Sentries would have been underpowered when no Omnis are fitted and overpowered when people stack lots of them. We totally understand that bringing Omnidirectionals in line was a bitter pill to swallow for people who use Sentries a lot, but we are confident that the game is in a better place with these changes then it would be without them.

There are obviously lots of other changes we need to make to drones and the ships that use them, but the best way to approach these kinds of issues is in an iterative manner, making focused changes and watching the results carefully.

We also are aware that the Rattlesnake isn't in quite as strong of a place as many other Pirate BS right now, and that is high on our agenda at the moment.


So yes, there has been a nerf.


And yes, the dev in question has zero clue about "balancing" weapon systems, and thinks wiping out the effectiveness of a weapon system that people throw millions of SP into and buy billions of ISK of ships dedicated to using that weapon system, all to cater to a vocal whiny bunch of null sec blobbers, is perfectly reasonable.


We can talk about your tinfoil-hattery all day and night.

But it pales in comparison to the rank ignorance and foolishness one would have to have in order to believe that insulting game developers is the best way to get that same developer to listen to you.

For years you've been doing this, and rather than create a following that could exert pressure (that could lead to change you want) you've alienated every single possible ally you could have had and have actually made it EASIER for the people you spew hate at to succeed. There is nothing more destructive to the Dinsdale worldview than a Dinsdale post lol.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#207 - 2014-02-06 00:46:04 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone.

I want to officially clarify that the fact that drone attributes are not properly displaying in show info is a bug and that your Omnis are in fact applying their bonuses correctly.
The issue with show info is a long standing bug that has to do with the way the client displays attributes on items that aren't your ship (or directly fitted to your ship). We're looking into getting it fixed, but it's not a simple issue.

As for the discussion on the strength of Sentry drones after this change, I will reiterate what I've said before. We don't want to make Sentries just like other weapons, the fact that they are very distinct with their own strengths, weaknesses and tactics is part of what makes them valuable to the game. We do always want to ensure that they have excellent strengths to make up for their special weaknesses.
But the honest truth is that Sentries were too good relative to other comparable weapons. Their damage envelope (the combination of range, damage and tracking) is very good and was one of several contributing factors that were leading to Sentries becoming overly dominant in almost all areas of EVE. Like I said in the original post, the fact that these changes reduce the power of Omnis is completely intentional.
Nerfing the base stats of sentries while leaving the incredibly effective Omnis was not going to be the best way to approach the issue, as that would leave us in a place where Sentries would have been underpowered when no Omnis are fitted and overpowered when people stack lots of them. We totally understand that bringing Omnidirectionals in line was a bitter pill to swallow for people who use Sentries a lot, but we are confident that the game is in a better place with these changes then it would be without them.

There are obviously lots of other changes we need to make to drones and the ships that use them, but the best way to approach these kinds of issues is in an iterative manner, making focused changes and watching the results carefully.

We also are aware that the Rattlesnake isn't in quite as strong of a place as many other Pirate BS right now, and that is high on our agenda at the moment.


So yes, there has been a nerf.


And yes, the dev in question has zero clue about "balancing" weapon systems, and thinks wiping out the effectiveness of a weapon system that people throw millions of SP into and buy billions of ISK of ships dedicated to using that weapon system, all to cater to a vocal whiny bunch of null sec blobbers, is perfectly reasonable.


We can talk about your tinfoil-hattery all day and night.

But it pales in comparison to the rank ignorance and foolishness one would have to have in order to believe that insulting game developers is the best way to get that same developer to listen to you.

For years you've been doing this, and rather than create a following that could exert pressure (that could lead to change you want) you've alienated every single possible ally you could have had and have actually made it EASIER for the people you spew hate at to succeed. There is nothing more destructive to the Dinsdale worldview than a Dinsdale post lol.


Yeah, I have zero respect for most of the dev's, and the reasons are well-known and documented.
But perhaps I scream at them because normal discourse has utterly failed in the past.

The meta-game is rigged. That is as clear as anything in the world of Eve.
So I post because clearly it incites people like you, which gives me some modicum of pleasure.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#208 - 2014-02-06 00:55:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
And yes, the dev in question has zero clue about "balancing" weapon systems, and thinks wiping out the effectiveness of a weapon system that people throw millions of SP into and buy billions of ISK of ships dedicated to using that weapon system, all to cater to a vocal whiny bunch of null sec blobbers, is perfectly reasonable.

When has this ever happened?

Quote:
The meta-game is rigged. That is as clear as anything in the world of Eve.
Which meta-game are you talking about, and how is it rigged?
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#209 - 2014-02-06 01:07:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


Yeah, I have zero respect for most of the dev's, and the reasons are well-known and documented.
But perhaps I scream at them because normal discourse has utterly failed in the past.

The meta-game is rigged. That is as clear as anything in the world of Eve.
So I post because clearly it incites people like you, which gives me some modicum of pleasure.


Except that people that previously might have engaged with you, now write it off as dinsdaletinfoil, a particularly thick and crunchy type of tinfoil used for the construction of particularly radiowave resistant hats and full body suits.

In any case, I have been using my proteus drone fit after the nerf, if you actually compare a myrmidon and a drone fit proteus, you'll see they are in fact very similar. (bandwidth, bonuses, gunpower is quite close etc).

With T2 omnis, I had to move the proteus to 40 km instead of 45 km to kill the station at the end of the maze, and since I was testing stuff, I killed dewak Humphries with garde IIs and spike m, and had to fly back about 6km to make Humphries fly into optimal of the drones since he orbits at 45.

The only problem I see is that the myrm can't carry sufficient drones at present, and therefore is fussily overreliant on mobile depots and its cargo to carry a spare drone to switch to a racial set to manage the shortened optimal in the more common way of switching drones (rather than rolling back as I did - which is feasible 2 gates deep in piths penal, but not so much in an anomaly).

As far as the metagame goes, I'll only ever say one thing to that, and that is moongoo nerf, which was a great thing for null generally and not done with respect to doing the CFC any favours.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#210 - 2014-02-06 01:20:13 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone.

I want to officially clarify that the fact that drone attributes are not properly displaying in show info is a bug and that your Omnis are in fact applying their bonuses correctly.
The issue with show info is a long standing bug that has to do with the way the client displays attributes on items that aren't your ship (or directly fitted to your ship). We're looking into getting it fixed, but it's not a simple issue.

As for the discussion on the strength of Sentry drones after this change, I will reiterate what I've said before. We don't want to make Sentries just like other weapons, the fact that they are very distinct with their own strengths, weaknesses and tactics is part of what makes them valuable to the game. We do always want to ensure that they have excellent strengths to make up for their special weaknesses.
But the honest truth is that Sentries were too good relative to other comparable weapons. Their damage envelope (the combination of range, damage and tracking) is very good and was one of several contributing factors that were leading to Sentries becoming overly dominant in almost all areas of EVE. Like I said in the original post, the fact that these changes reduce the power of Omnis is completely intentional.
Nerfing the base stats of sentries while leaving the incredibly effective Omnis was not going to be the best way to approach the issue, as that would leave us in a place where Sentries would have been underpowered when no Omnis are fitted and overpowered when people stack lots of them. We totally understand that bringing Omnidirectionals in line was a bitter pill to swallow for people who use Sentries a lot, but we are confident that the game is in a better place with these changes then it would be without them.

There are obviously lots of other changes we need to make to drones and the ships that use them, but the best way to approach these kinds of issues is in an iterative manner, making focused changes and watching the results carefully.

We also are aware that the Rattlesnake isn't in quite as strong of a place as many other Pirate BS right now, and that is high on our agenda at the moment.


Just for grins.

1) "We want drones to be different"......obviously why they mirrored Omni's off of Tracking Computers Roll
2) Rattler is better than that hunk of crap Nestor.