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Should there be a Variation of a TD for Missile Launches
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Prince Kobol
#1 - 2011-11-09 11:25:53 UTC
Do you think that a new module should be introduced that gives the same effect as a Turret Disruptor but to Missile Ships.

I maybe completely wrong here and if I am I am sure I will corrected, but it seems that Turret based ships have much more susceptibility to ECM then Missile Ships.

I would love a new type of ECM that would directly effect Missile Ships, maybe a missile jammer that would make a percentage of missiles miss depending on skills, type of missile, etc etc
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-11-09 11:28:52 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Do you think that a new module should be introduced that gives the same effect as a Turret Disruptor but to Missile Ships.

I maybe completely wrong here and if I am I am sure I will corrected, but it seems that Turret based ships have much more susceptibility to ECM then Missile Ships.

I would love a new type of ECM that would directly effect Missile Ships, maybe a missile jammer that would make a percentage of missiles miss depending on skills, type of missile, etc etc



Speed and sig-radius already do this.....


Get get a 100mnAB on a stabber and have your buddy shoot at you with heavy missiles if you want an example of this.
Sunviking
Doomheim
#3 - 2011-11-09 11:50:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Sunviking
Prince Kobol wrote:
Do you think that a new module should be introduced that gives the same effect as a Turret Disruptor but to Missile Ships.

I maybe completely wrong here and if I am I am sure I will corrected, but it seems that Turret based ships have much more susceptibility to ECM then Missile Ships.

I would love a new type of ECM that would directly effect Missile Ships, maybe a missile jammer that would make a percentage of missiles miss depending on skills, type of missile, etc etc


You are correct, but there are various disadvantages that Missiles have too, that Turrets do not have - for example, Missiles cannot do 300% Wrecking damage, and do not insta-hit like turrets do. So I am sure that Missiles do not need nerfing or any new Counter modules.
Vuthu
Perfusus Sanguine
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2011-11-09 12:24:12 UTC
also - smartbombs
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-11-09 12:28:59 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Do you think that a new module should be introduced that gives the same effect as a Turret Disruptor but to Missile Ships.

I maybe completely wrong here and if I am I am sure I will corrected, but it seems that Turret based ships have much more susceptibility to ECM then Missile Ships.


Dampeners and ECM will work on missile boats as advertised, making their life a bit harder (how much harder is situational). Target painters do what they do just fine on missile boats. Only tracking disruptor are useless for missile ships but that's probably balanced because of the massive impact those little toys have on turrets... its a tradeoff.

If you get annoyed at e-war stuff, just use drones.
Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#6 - 2011-11-09 12:47:27 UTC
Too bad defender missiles don't exist on player ships.
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-11-09 13:09:39 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Do you think that a new module should be introduced that gives the same effect as a Turret Disruptor but to Missile Ships.

I maybe completely wrong here and if I am I am sure I will corrected, but it seems that Turret based ships have much more susceptibility to ECM then Missile Ships.

I would love a new type of ECM that would directly effect Missile Ships, maybe a missile jammer that would make a percentage of missiles miss depending on skills, type of missile, etc etc



Speed and sig-radius already do this.....


Get get a 100mnAB on a stabber and have your buddy shoot at you with heavy missiles if you want an example of this.

Put a 100mn on a stabber and bump somebody. More fun.

90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed.

Elistea
BLUE Regiment.
#8 - 2011-11-09 13:16:05 UTC
There actualy is sort of a variation --> defender missiles
Currently they are not used at all due to missile slot requirement.

I think these missiles have potential.

Lots of ships do have utility hi-slots.

CCP should add specialised defender missile launchers which are mountable into these utility hi-slots.

Considering amount of drakes flying around i think ppl would use some.
Feyrin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2011-11-09 13:54:54 UTC
Defender missiles are already in game for this. Sadly they don't work. Primarily because when they added weapon grouping they made it so missiles fired as a group as a single entity. This gives say 1 cruise missile the HP of 7 on a raven. The defender missile doesn't do enough damage to destroy this and so the missiles hit. Also defenders are too slow with limited range and pick stupid targets.

Ccp won't change this atm because let's be honest there is no balance reason to.
Elistea
BLUE Regiment.
#10 - 2011-11-09 14:11:37 UTC
Feyrin wrote:
Defender missiles are already in game for this. Sadly they don't work. Primarily because when they added weapon grouping they made it so missiles fired as a group as a single entity. This gives say 1 cruise missile the HP of 7 on a raven. The defender missile doesn't do enough damage to destroy this and so the missiles hit. Also defenders are too slow with limited range and pick stupid targets.

Ccp won't change this atm because let's be honest there is no balance reason to.


Fair enough.

Im just sad when i see some features with potential but completely ignored
Goose99
#11 - 2011-11-09 15:01:24 UTC
Elistea wrote:
Feyrin wrote:
Defender missiles are already in game for this. Sadly they don't work. Primarily because when they added weapon grouping they made it so missiles fired as a group as a single entity. This gives say 1 cruise missile the HP of 7 on a raven. The defender missile doesn't do enough damage to destroy this and so the missiles hit. Also defenders are too slow with limited range and pick stupid targets.

Ccp won't change this atm because let's be honest there is no balance reason to.


Fair enough.

Im just sad when i see some features with potential but completely ignored


False. Missile HP on grouped launchers are not pooled. It will just destroy one missile out of the group, while the rest continue on to hit, minus the dmg from that one missile, of course. Grouping does not help against defenders.

People don't use defenders because... *gasp* missiles suck so much in pvp that it's not a threat warranting sacrificing a high for.Roll
So no, missiles don't need gimp, because they're already worthless. And whatever additional anti-missile mod you think up, unless its completely OP, won't be worth the high or mid either.
Riyusone Haro
White Pearl Initiative
#12 - 2011-11-09 18:55:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Riyusone Haro
Personally I think launchers with defenders loaded should be able to target specific ships like a TD does.
It should be possible to assign your defender launchers to shoot down missiles launched by specific ship(s).

For example a missile frigate should be able to use defenders to intercept cruise missiles fired by an enemy battleship to prevent them from hitting a friendly DPS ship. Currently defenders will intercept only missiles targeting the ship they were launched from and tend to go for the nearest missile which is not necessarily the most damaging missile.

I would imagine track disruptors would be just as "useless" if they automatically only disrupted the nearest ship or drone that had a gun.
Dr Cedric
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#13 - 2011-11-09 19:01:14 UTC
Best idea for a point defense system would be some module that makes the expl velocity or radius of the missile larger. I can see a place for this on battleship/battlecruiser sized ships. I'd call it worth a mid if it made my tank versus missiles better, for PvE for sure.

Cedric
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#14 - 2011-11-09 19:22:21 UTC
Gonna go with no. Probably yes if they add missile equivalents to TCs/TEs.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Goose99
#15 - 2011-11-09 21:11:05 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Gonna go with no. Probably yes if they add missile equivalents to TCs/TEs.

-Liang


Maybe that "missile td" should be a rig, then we'll see how many people uses it, lulz
Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority
#16 - 2011-11-09 22:13:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Diomidis
Defender missiles are completely underpowered: taking up a high slot, failing kill more than one missile per (slow) cycle, even failing to kill that one (if its a Torp)...ridiculous. Defenders should have an AoE affecting missiles (fragmentation missile, like all AA missiles today).

TDs affect all targeting / range / tracking of up to 8 guns with no effort.

Just like TPs help sort of the ways TCs and TEs do, making missiles hit harder (up to the predifined max dmg).
Liang, you cannot mean TC+TE like range bonuses for missiles...missile ranges is already "best or on par with best" in class, and rarely an issue.

The micromanagement to effectively use Smartbombs for missile defense in PVP is simply crazy. And that's if you can fit a large SB. With smaller variants is nearly impossible to time it right. And with the dmg projection / cap usage of mrf-small SBs, even if those were effective, you could not afford to run it on most small hulls anyways.

So yeah, there is no "missile dedicated def system" that works.

I would like to see an ewar module - say like ECM burst - to affect missiles. Would still require timing etc maybe, but would have an AoE (think electronic flares / ECM countermeasure pods in RL) and chances to block A LOT of missiles from hitting, not focusing on one. Could be used by small ships with reasonable capacitor requirements (not way worse than a TD) and should provide way better AoE than a small / med smartbomb (falloff-heavy).

"War does not determine who is right - only who is left." -- Bertrand Russell

Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#17 - 2011-11-09 22:19:01 UTC
Well actually you can fit defenders but they're broken, then missiles don't hit at 100% neither in other stuff than structures...

Actually being mostly projectiles/hybrid pilot but also missiles I must say this is a terrible idea. Missiles are fine has they are, not OP not useless, well unless HAM's I don't like at all but it's a personal opinion.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#18 - 2011-11-09 22:46:45 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
False. Missile HP on grouped launchers are not pooled. It will just destroy one missile out of the group, while the rest continue on to hit, minus the dmg from that one missile, of course. Grouping does not help against defenders.

CCP disagrees with you: Weapon Grouping

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We also reduce the missile stack damage depending on its remaining overall hitpoints. So if the group of two heavy missiles gets reduced from 140 to 70 hitpoints, it will do 50 percent less damage to the target.