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OMNIDIRECTIONAL Tracking Link Changes

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Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#61 - 2014-01-30 09:23:31 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

It's true that an RS with tracking scripts would have better tracking than before, though still worse than a domi doing the same while having less range than that domi. In all reality, between the domi changes and this, there is less and less reason to use other sentry boats than the domi or ishtar.


That only occurs if you accept 800 dps from your boats, which I don't. My ratting domi has 4 DDA IIs, 2 magstabs, 6 guns and a lowslot CPU module (max control range 75km due to rig). The ishtar has 4 DDA IIs, 1 magstab, 4 guns, max control range 80km becaue its an ishtar.

IMO when you start trying to ask either boat to really genuinely put out Rattlesnake ticks in anomolies, then you can really only afford 1 omni on a domi and 2 on an ishtar, and the rattlesnake is straight forward, the ishtar needs to use orbit to tank, and the domi needs a pith tank mod and a T2 cap rig and has to avoid sanctums, and a couple of other anoms due to it being thin.

If you accept 800 dps, then yes, there is no reason to use a rattlesnake.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2014-01-30 20:27:17 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

It's true that an RS with tracking scripts would have better tracking than before, though still worse than a domi doing the same while having less range than that domi. In all reality, between the domi changes and this, there is less and less reason to use other sentry boats than the domi or ishtar.


That only occurs if you accept 800 dps from your boats, which I don't. My ratting domi has 4 DDA IIs, 2 magstabs, 6 guns and a lowslot CPU module (max control range 75km due to rig). The ishtar has 4 DDA IIs, 1 magstab, 4 guns, max control range 80km becaue its an ishtar.

IMO when you start trying to ask either boat to really genuinely put out Rattlesnake ticks in anomolies, then you can really only afford 1 omni on a domi and 2 on an ishtar, and the rattlesnake is straight forward, the ishtar needs to use orbit to tank, and the domi needs a pith tank mod and a T2 cap rig and has to avoid sanctums, and a couple of other anoms due to it being thin.

If you accept 800 dps, then yes, there is no reason to use a rattlesnake.

That makes no sense. I did sanctums just fine in a domi, though haven't since the changes but would imagine them easier now since you can bring your full drone DPS to bear at longer range.

And I'm not following what you are saying about settling for 800dps. A domi easily exceeds that as well as an RS in applicable damage when it uses it's bonuses fully, so it's not so much a domi trying to get RS ticks, but the RS trying to get domi ticks and failing. The only possible exception being mixing TP's and omni's, which means your drones aren't hitting harder when mixing that with tank at closer range, to get the most use of all weapons.

Sure, the RS is tankier, but the domi isn't thin enough to need to be evasive. Especially if using Pith mods, you could in theory get a 3 slot tank and the base bonuses still outperform 1 tracking scripted omni + 2 range scripted. The domi is a harder hitting boat unless you are in a 4+ omni RS or just not using the range advantage.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#63 - 2014-01-31 05:57:17 UTC
Not seeing the part where a rattlesnake in garde range would hit less hard than a domi.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2014-01-31 20:41:23 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Not seeing the part where a rattlesnake in garde range would hit less hard than a domi.

In the difference between Domi grade range and RS grade range, the answer is self explanatory, If within both Grade ranges the domi has a tracking benefit which is > 1 unpenalized tracking scripted and OH'd tracking computer. The RS can fit to counter that advantage, but does so at the expense of widening the range gap between the 2.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#65 - 2014-01-31 21:09:24 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Not seeing the part where a rattlesnake in garde range would hit less hard than a domi.

In the difference between Domi grade range and RS grade range, the answer is self explanatory, If within both Grade ranges the domi has a tracking benefit which is > 1 unpenalized tracking scripted and OH'd tracking computer. The RS can fit to counter that advantage, but does so at the expense of widening the range gap between the 2.


Oh. Tracking. One should be able to manage it well enough to be a non-issue. Certainly not something I would say "hits less hard" over, which to me implies a hard cap on performance. I mean, I don't know of any npc frigs or cruisers that orbit much outside the 30km mark. Do you?

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2014-01-31 21:25:49 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Not seeing the part where a rattlesnake in garde range would hit less hard than a domi.

In the difference between Domi grade range and RS grade range, the answer is self explanatory, If within both Grade ranges the domi has a tracking benefit which is > 1 unpenalized tracking scripted and OH'd tracking computer. The RS can fit to counter that advantage, but does so at the expense of widening the range gap between the 2.


Oh. Tracking. One should be able to manage it well enough to be a non-issue. Certainly not something I would say "hits less hard" over, which to me implies a hard cap on performance. I mean, I don't know of any npc frigs or cruisers that orbit much outside the 30km mark. Do you?

Not following here, at close orbits angular is higher thus making tracking more important. Also, I may be incorrect, but doesn't the chance to hit, which is affected by tracking, also have an effect on hit quality?

On rereading, the orbit comment probably refers to the issue of targets being in the optimal of both ships, in which case the tracking part still applies. As targets approach though, the domi would be able to show superior value. The only situation I see the RS being superior in, even if the application difference is marginal, is if you insist on tanking spawns at 0 or are expecting a lot of incoming DPS.

Neither of which counters the fact that the domi is cheaper and all around a more versatile engager.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#67 - 2014-01-31 21:48:25 UTC
I'm asserting that with gardes, tracking is functionally irrelevant on battlecruisers and battleships outside of 30km. Inside 30km, the range of a completely unbonsed garde II, you can switch to tracking scripts. You'll still have worse tracking than the domi, but you'll have better tracking than a rubicon 1.0 rattlesnake, which is very very high.

The point is that the dominix's range bonus is the thing that counts, and its the reduction of range on omnilinks that is causing pain. Sentry tracking is mostly a side issue in pve. It wasn't a source of difficulty pre-patch, and because of scripts, its not a major one now either. The times when the reduced tracking hurts should be few and far between,

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2014-01-31 21:55:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Batelle wrote:
I'm asserting that with gardes, tracking is functionally irrelevant on battlecruisers and battleships outside of 30km. Inside 30km, the range of a completely unbonsed garde II, you can switch to tracking scripts. You'll still have worse tracking than the domi, but you'll have better tracking than a rubicon 1.0 rattlesnake, which is very very high.

The point is that the dominix's range bonus is the thing that counts, and its the reduction of range on omnilinks that is causing pain. Sentry tracking is mostly a side issue in pve. It wasn't a source of difficulty pre-patch, and because of scripts, its not a major one now either. The times when the reduced tracking hurts should be few and far between,

I'm not disagreeing with your point in totality, though, that still leaves the RS in the "just as good as a domi inside of 30km" bracket (on top of which I'm still not convinced a 37.5% unpenalized tracking head start is inconsequential) bracket for damage output, and adds a brick tank which perhaps I'm underestimating the need of.

To be honest I actually stopped using my RS after the Domi changes hit. Granted this in itself didn't marginalize it, mostly because it was already marginalized to a degree.