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exploit use of junk to uncloak??

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Yorlock
Bot death
#1 - 2014-01-26 23:07:56 UTC
We need a ruling on the use of jetcans and wrecks on and arround jumpgates to uncloak/prevent cloaking of ships with cov-ops cloaks jumping thru. It used to be considered an exploit but it has increased in use on low sec/null gates as well as high sec use as a way to uncloak war targets. I am disturbed that what used to be a bannable/suspendable expoit is back in use and considered as a legit tactic to remove the use of recon cruisers, stealth bombers, cov-ops frigates, blockade runners and t3 cruisers that use the cov ops subsystem as a safe way to travel thru low sec or bypass a war targets gate camp. The only safe low/null sec ship is currently an interceptor that can warp before targeted and is bubble immune. The changes to warp activation combined with the 'cloud of junk' to automatically uncloak/prevent cloaking every other ship has remvoed them from being used effectively.
Again, I would like a dev ruling as to why this is now a valid tactic when it was frowned upon in the past. If this is ruled a legit tactic them may i suggest we just remove all cloaks from game and refund the skills points spend on claoking as it is a wasted skill under these current in game conditions.
Thanks
Muestereate
Minions LLC
#2 - 2014-01-26 23:12:03 UTC
Seems to me the petition system would be how to get a ruling, General dscussion doesn't make rulings that matter.
Nedes Betternaem
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2014-01-26 23:16:26 UTC
I'm almost certain that it is not considered exploiting by CCP to do that.
Yorlock
Bot death
#4 - 2014-01-26 23:17:07 UTC
The petition system does not show the proof of how many objects were on the gate. Only that an object prevented you from cloaking and that is not proof of an exploit of enough to refund ship and implant/skill points lost in the case of a t3 loss. This is why we need a dev ruling on this issue.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2014-01-26 23:17:18 UTC
using objects to decloak is not an exploit

using an unreasonable number of objects is generating load on the server and against terms of service
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#6 - 2014-01-26 23:21:05 UTC
The tactic is not frowned upon, it is simply against the EULA to deliberately create lag. I could imagina that 10 years back CCP had less space supercomputers, so it might require some more trash nowadays to actually do that. An SP refund is kind of harsh for a skill you happen to dislike because it's not an Escape button. What is stopping you from attempting to kill said persons and shoot / loot their trash? I mean if you wanna keep your neighbourhood clean you have to walk the beat man! Cool
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#7 - 2014-01-26 23:22:12 UTC
Yorlock wrote:
This is why we need a dev ruling on this issue.

CCP has already made numerous statements on jetcans for decloaking. Use the forum search feature.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
Yorlock
Bot death
#8 - 2014-01-26 23:22:15 UTC
A cloud of 50+ cans/wrecks on the gates gives a small camp the same advantage as a gate gcamp of the same number of ships spaced arround the gate as far as colidables. If they have that many ships its one thing. use of cans and wrecks to boost their coverage/advantage is another. Seems like we just need to get rid of cloaks and remove the temptation to cause unreasonable server load then with the junk clouds.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2014-01-26 23:22:37 UTC
heh. scram, web, three sebos, then tell them to either selfdestruct or pick up their litter
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2014-01-26 23:22:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
There was ruling given once concerning the use of jet cans and litter to create a secondary shield around a pos. My guess though is if the gate litter is wrecks it's probably ok.. if you are buying 1000's of containers to plant in space probably not. You know, common sense...

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2014-01-26 23:25:31 UTC
Yorlock wrote:
...The only safe low/null sec ship is currently an interceptor that can warp before targeted and is bubble immune....



Stop being terrible.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Muestereate
Minions LLC
#12 - 2014-01-26 23:32:52 UTC
If some one can drop a thosand ships in a system it can handle a few dozen cans. Last ruling I heard was related to server load. If it makes it so bad that people can't play that is when they consider it an exploit. WHen you cloak you have to have your overview setup for everything including probes drones corpses wrecks containers etc then you sometimes have to manually steer between them to remain cloaked.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#13 - 2014-01-26 23:38:30 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
There was ruling given once concerning the use of jet cans and litter to create a secondary shield around a pos. My guess though is if the gate litter is wrecks it's probably ok.. if you are buying 1000's of containers to plant in space probably not. You know, common sense...

Pretty much this.

Using jetcans and other objects in space to decloak ships has never been against the rules. Using LOTS of jetcans and objects in space to the point where it may cause lag is.

There was a discussion about this in the Assembly Hall awhile back on this same topic.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3613891

How did you Veterans start?
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#14 - 2014-01-26 23:52:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Stop being terrible.


+1 to this.

OP you seem a bit butthurt about losing a T3 but your whine is very, very, very inaccurate.

Covert Ops ships are one of the most useful ships in the game in both lowsec and nullsec and individually, they can break gate camps much easier than most other ships.

My cloak scout character never has a problem with being decloaked. It happens, but it's simple to deal with.

So rather than blaming your loss on a game mechanic, recognise it was 100% your own fault and figure out how to react to it occurring again.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#15 - 2014-01-27 00:35:53 UTC
I once dropped a Viator load of corpses on a gate. The word exploit was used quite extensively in local....but strangely nothing happened.


After their pods were gone we never heard any more complaints.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Leigh Akiga
Kuhri Innovations
#16 - 2014-01-27 00:46:57 UTC
Somebody had about 200 cans outside Dodixie once and it was really over the top annoying so I petitioned it and the GM said its not a problem HTFU.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2014-01-27 00:49:55 UTC
i seen a gm come along and blow up a bunch of rookie ships outside dodixie. you mustn't have made your petition clear.
Wesley Otsdarva
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-01-27 01:00:43 UTC
This makes me want to make a trash detection field around a gate. Just to see what happens.
Garnoo
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2014-01-27 01:05:00 UTC
only scrubs uses gates in 2nd decade... move to nullsec, use jumpdrive - problem solved
next!

People are going to try to ruin your day. Get together with others, ruin their day back -  EvE
Muestereate
Minions LLC
#20 - 2014-01-27 01:13:44 UTC
Stargates are economical though
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