These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

High Sec War Deccing is Utterly Broken.

First post
Author
Mag's
Azn Empire
#181 - 2014-01-27 17:45:17 UTC
Alaekessa wrote:
Mag's wrote:
You mean people play Eve, a game designed to have no safe area except maybe a station. A game where people are given tools to play in a sandbox style environment and told they can do whatever they want within the scope of those tools and the framework of the game.

The trouble you seem to be having, is thinking that means others cannot affect you in any way when you use those tools in that sandbox. They can and always have been able too. For what? Oh yea, over ten years now.

Also your line regarding "Psychopath Online" is ridiculous. Just as it would be to call chess players "Murderers", because the goal of the game is regicide.

You have a good point, though I find it amusing how quickly some wardec corps are to cry when the prey turns those very same tools against them.

Both sides have their crybabies and both sides have players who understand what eve truly represents. It isn't necessarily a "**** the weak" game, though there are those who do build that kind of castle in their sandbox, it is a game where PvP is the main objective. Whether that PvP is ship combat or market combat or simply accomplishing goals despite having those who try to "kick over your sandcastle" is up to the individual player to decide.
Oh I agree and will call out those who whine on either side, when I think they have no argument.

The last time I recall doing this, was when they changed null rats. Some 'PvP' types complained that the rats were changing targets from the ratter to them. Well, so what? Sounds like a good change and you need to adapt.

The game has always been PvP centric and combat PvP is only a subset of what PvP stands for. The game has also always allowed for others to try and kick down your sandcastle. Whether they succeed or not, is down to you.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#182 - 2014-01-27 17:45:52 UTC
Alaekessa wrote:


If you "Hunt them for profit" and yet "they are less likely to undock" where is the profit?

Wouldn't it be more profitable to hunt other "high-earning" PVPers such as yourself? After all, they are more likely to undock in shiny ships than the Indys are when wardec'd aren't they? Deadspace Mods, Faction Mods/Ships are these usual tools of the trade in PVP? Don't they have a chance to drop when the ship goes pop? You could be harvesting those though instead you choose to come to the forums and cry because people choose to undock when the risk for doing so spikes.

IDK who is more risk adverse, wardec corps or the NPC corp campers.


No its more profitable to hunt marauders when you want to make isk. They are more predictable and much more consistent as dropping expensive loot. Most high sec mercs do not use such overly expensive things. The most common expensive material being webs and points. But nothing surpasses Dead space shield tank modules of mission runners.

Again you clearly show no idea what you are talking about when you talk about intys. We RARELY ever kill industrials. We select groups and hunt specific people that we know fly expensive stuff. That is one activity, mostly executed at times of day when we have only 2-3 people online. We do not even expect to find industrials flying around, but sometimes we do, by luck.

The other activity is getting paid to help defending corps in war against other merc groups. You know.. corps that know that whining solves nothing, and use the tools available. You can check with those corps.. we are quite effective. We go find the offending part and hunt them. Sometimes we also get good loot from them. But usually they drop the war after 2-3 days of our intervention. Several of our clients were pleased enough to send extra billion isk in thanks for our effectiveness. Those are the wars we get most fun from, but when we profit, is usually because the client was happy enough to give extra payment.

Those corps GET eve, they know how to deal with problems, and that whining and crying like a baby is not one of the effective ways.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#183 - 2014-01-27 17:46:41 UTC
Varo Jan wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
You do nto get eve. eve is NOT made for beign liek that. Eve is made so that PVP can and WILL be forced upon you! THat always was and always will be EVE.

If you do not liek eve, change game, but that is eve, a PVP game. If it was a PVE game it woudl ahve died as ALL PVE games (except one very huge mammoth) that existed when eve lancuhed have died).

Eve is not psycophat online.. although you want a game called COWARDICE online

Perhaps you've heard of spell checkers? Please use one.

You got one thing right in your post: EVE is a game - a sandbox. It offers a myriad of career choices including trading, manufacturing, research, invention, PVP, PVE - and lots more. People get to choose what they want to do, and that is the beauty of EVE.

PVP never has and never will be forced on anyone. Just because you want that doesn't make it so. I'd love to force Invention on you, but then I'm a mean bustard.



Perhaps you heard of OTHER languages, and that my computer spellchecker is likely configured for my native language?

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#184 - 2014-01-27 17:48:44 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Agreed on the neutral rep point. If a player reps a WT in your view they should automatically be considered an ally to the war target for as long as you can see them. You can't 'neutrally' help one side of a war without expecting retaliation from the other!



That is among the most stupid ideas ever. Because then our own targets woudl use their own alts to repair us and force the increase of our costs?

Think a bit before giving dumb ideas.

I dislike neutral reps as well, but your solution is NOT the solution.

Personally i think NEUTRAL remote repair should be CONCORDOKEN!!!


I wasn't clear, I didn't meant for them to be part of the wardec calculation, I meant if a neutral is repping a war target in your view you should be allowed to shoot them as they are clearly acting as an ally for the action of repping. This would only apply whilst you can see the action of the neutral ally.



it is ALREADY like that. EVERYONE can shoot a logistic that is repairing a neutral part. But most people are too coward to do so.

That is a clear example. People whine about mechanics that they do not even know!!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Varo Jan
Caravanserai Consulting
#185 - 2014-01-27 17:53:12 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Varo Jan wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
You do nto get eve. eve is NOT made for beign liek that. Eve is made so that PVP can and WILL be forced upon you! THat always was and always will be EVE.

If you do not liek eve, change game, but that is eve, a PVP game. If it was a PVE game it woudl ahve died as ALL PVE games (except one very huge mammoth) that existed when eve lancuhed have died).

Eve is not psycophat online.. although you want a game called COWARDICE online

Perhaps you've heard of spell checkers? Please use one.

You got one thing right in your post: EVE is a game - a sandbox. It offers a myriad of career choices including trading, manufacturing, research, invention, PVP, PVE - and lots more. People get to choose what they want to do, and that is the beauty of EVE.

PVP never has and never will be forced on anyone. Just because you want that doesn't make it so. I'd love to force Invention on you, but then I'm a mean bustard.



Perhaps you heard of OTHER languages, and that my computer spellchecker is likely configured for my native language?


Indeed I have heard of OTHER languages. In fact, I speak a few. Never stopped me from spelling things properly in any language.

Change your settings, son. As they say, adapt or die. Worse, be ignored.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#186 - 2014-01-27 17:59:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Varo Jan wrote:
Indeed I have heard of OTHER languages. In fact, I speak a few. Never stopped me from spelling things properly in any language.

Change your settings, son. As they say, adapt or die. Worse, be ignored.
Please stop. So what if there are few words not spelled correctly, or spaces where there should none. I can read them perfectly well and actually thought Kagura may have been posting from a phone.

It's not relevant to the topic.

Edit: Typo and grammar, wouldn't want that now would we.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#187 - 2014-01-27 18:03:37 UTC
A good ratio of whining on both sides. This is why Nullsec is better.

Highsec, Concord has to shoot people for you, theres neutrals all around that don't care, they have their own business, and Wardecs take away the concord safety blanket. Acceptable recourse, change corps. Highsec griefers can still attack you, they just can't call it "justified." They'll still pay with a lost ship and a few isk in sec status. Acceptable recourse. You took away the griefers fun.

Everyone that plays eve exists in a game as a target. You don't want to be shot as often going about your business? Nullsec.

The blues around you will help you shoot people that aren't blue(and sometimes people that are). The guys around you have their own business, but this is their space too, so they'll shoot anyone that looks less than blue, and try to help your ship. Wardecs mean nothing outside highsec, sure nullsec people die in highsec "wars" but only because they're being stupid: flying without scouts, cloaks and around market hubs.

The griefing that goes on in highsec doesn't happen in nullsec, because griefing can't happen in nullsec; there are no rules.

Now that I've said nothing in a good many words, theres a lot of pyramid quoting going on. Use basic text editing tools, and learn to use italics and bold, or even underline using caps for emphasis makes you look like you haven't achieved a double digit age.

Get some Eve. Make it yours.

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#188 - 2014-01-27 18:08:51 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:


it is ALREADY like that. EVERYONE can shoot a logistic that is repairing a neutral part. But most people are too coward to do so.

That is a clear example. People whine about mechanics that they do not even know!!


Ummm exactly where did I whine? I made a suggestion, if it is wrong please feel free to correct. My understanding is that if you shoot a neutral in hi-sec you will be CONCORD'd?
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#189 - 2014-01-27 18:12:21 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:


it is ALREADY like that. EVERYONE can shoot a logistic that is repairing a neutral part. But most people are too coward to do so.

That is a clear example. People whine about mechanics that they do not even know!!


Ummm exactly where did I whine? I made a suggestion, if it is wrong please feel free to correct. My understanding is that if you shoot a neutral in hi-sec you will be CONCORD'd?

Yeah, though, IIRC if they are repping someone who is actively engaged in combat they go suspect, which means they can be shot.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#190 - 2014-01-27 18:13:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:


it is ALREADY like that. EVERYONE can shoot a logistic that is repairing a neutral part. But most people are too coward to do so.

That is a clear example. People whine about mechanics that they do not even know!!


Ummm exactly where did I whine? I made a suggestion, if it is wrong please feel free to correct. My understanding is that if you shoot a neutral in hi-sec you will be CONCORD'd?
You can shoot a neutral logistics pilot, as they become flagged as they rep someone fighting.. So no concord.

Edit: Alaekessa beat me to it. Oops

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#191 - 2014-01-27 18:14:13 UTC
Alaekessa wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:


it is ALREADY like that. EVERYONE can shoot a logistic that is repairing a neutral part. But most people are too coward to do so.

That is a clear example. People whine about mechanics that they do not even know!!


Ummm exactly where did I whine? I made a suggestion, if it is wrong please feel free to correct. My understanding is that if you shoot a neutral in hi-sec you will be CONCORD'd?

Yeah, though, IIRC if they are repping someone who is actively engaged in combat they go suspect, which means they can be shot.


Aha, thank you for the answer, I haven't seen this in action so didn't know. That makes sense.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#192 - 2014-01-27 21:22:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tchulen
Kagura Nikon wrote:
No I am not the hater. You a re the one hating here. I LOVE, I love to play this game with my friends and have fun in a good PVP game, experiencing the joy of HUNT.

Other than the fact you've said you hate people and I haven't, of course. I'm sure you do love this game. It lets you attack other people who can't fight back. All that hate has somewhere to go.

Kagura Nikon wrote:
If you cannot comprehend the usage of capitalization to enphasize words that on previous posts you have been CLEARLY UNABLE TO READ... then I am sorry for you, because i am just trying to help you overcome your clear handicaped capabilities.

I can read fine, thanks. Whether you write in capitals or not doesn't change someone's ability to read what you've written, you know. The fact you don't know that shows a serious lack of understanding. That's pre-school stuff right there.

For the record, I've got nothing against wardec corps or the people in them just like I don't have anything against high sec miners. It doesn't matter to me what either of them does. As has been mentioned in this thread there are ample ways to avoid wardecs. If everyone used them there would be no war targets other than those that chose to be out looking for fights. It is arguably the targets fault that they're killed. They didn't work out how to avoid getting killed and if we're honest, if you're not the shark you're the shark food. If you're not hunting you should be figuring out how to avoid the hunters. There are many analogies from nature which show this.

That said, those that prey on the defenseless should admit to themselves that they are, even if just a little bit, bullying people. I'm not condemning it, it's a part of life but you should at least admit what it is you're doing whether you care about it or not. To claim you're not is simply a lie.

EDIT - Tip to high sec corps that get wardecced and can't or don't want to deal with it: Move to nullsec. The guys deccing you won't follow you there.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#193 - 2014-01-27 21:46:10 UTC
My only problem is 50 Million (+1 Million for every Member at some point) per Week is a bit less, ISK suffers every Year from a pretty High Inflation and this Number is nothing anymore, in my eyes it should be a more Economy driven amount.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#194 - 2014-01-27 23:27:23 UTC
Varo Jan wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Varo Jan wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
You do nto get eve. eve is NOT made for beign liek that. Eve is made so that PVP can and WILL be forced upon you! THat always was and always will be EVE.

If you do not liek eve, change game, but that is eve, a PVP game. If it was a PVE game it woudl ahve died as ALL PVE games (except one very huge mammoth) that existed when eve lancuhed have died).

Eve is not psycophat online.. although you want a game called COWARDICE online

Perhaps you've heard of spell checkers? Please use one.

You got one thing right in your post: EVE is a game - a sandbox. It offers a myriad of career choices including trading, manufacturing, research, invention, PVP, PVE - and lots more. People get to choose what they want to do, and that is the beauty of EVE.

PVP never has and never will be forced on anyone. Just because you want that doesn't make it so. I'd love to force Invention on you, but then I'm a mean bustard.



Perhaps you heard of OTHER languages, and that my computer spellchecker is likely configured for my native language?


Indeed I have heard of OTHER languages. In fact, I speak a few. Never stopped me from spelling things properly in any language.

Change your settings, son. As they say, adapt or die. Worse, be ignored.



I am not being ignored.. you are usign your time to answer me, regardless ofg my spelling. So.. the only one loosign here is you...

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#195 - 2014-01-27 23:29:10 UTC
Tchulen wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
No I am not the hater. You a re the one hating here. I LOVE, I love to play this game with my friends and have fun in a good PVP game, experiencing the joy of HUNT.

Other than the fact you've said you hate people and I haven't, of course. I'm sure you do love this game. It lets you attack other people who can't fight back. All that hate has somewhere to go.

Kagura Nikon wrote:
If you cannot comprehend the usage of capitalization to enphasize words that on previous posts you have been CLEARLY UNABLE TO READ... then I am sorry for you, because i am just trying to help you overcome your clear handicaped capabilities.

I can read fine, thanks. Whether you write in capitals or not doesn't change someone's ability to read what you've written, you know. The fact you don't know that shows a serious lack of understanding. That's pre-school stuff right there.

For the record, I've got nothing against wardec corps or the people in them just like I don't have anything against high sec miners. It doesn't matter to me what either of them does. As has been mentioned in this thread there are ample ways to avoid wardecs. If everyone used them there would be no war targets other than those that chose to be out looking for fights. It is arguably the targets fault that they're killed. They didn't work out how to avoid getting killed and if we're honest, if you're not the shark you're the shark food. If you're not hunting you should be figuring out how to avoid the hunters. There are many analogies from nature which show this.

That said, those that prey on the defenseless should admit to themselves that they are, even if just a little bit, bullying people. I'm not condemning it, it's a part of life but you should at least admit what it is you're doing whether you care about it or not. To claim you're not is simply a lie.

EDIT - Tip to high sec corps that get wardecced and can't or don't want to deal with it: Move to nullsec. The guys deccing you won't follow you there.



They can fight back.. anyoen can fight back in this game. IF they fail its THEIR fault!! Only their own fault! That is the explendid thing. Safe the rare bugs, everytime syou die, its your own fault or your friends fault.

If you cannto defend yourself.. LEARN TO

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#196 - 2014-01-27 23:31:49 UTC
Dolorous Tremmens wrote:
.

Now that I've said nothing in a good many words, theres a lot of pyramid quoting going on. Use basic text editing tools, and learn to use italics and bold, or even underline using caps for emphasis makes you look like you haven't achieved a double digit age.



Really? Complainign oon how someoen writes is nort impressive adult behavior as well. Wher I come from writign in bold is considered vulgar and offensive and you shoudl use caps.

And I o nto care what others think. If they want to read what I post, read with CAP ON. And they clrearly do. otherwise they would not be answering me

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#197 - 2014-01-28 00:01:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Dolorous Tremmens
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Really? Complainign oon how someoen writes is nort impressive adult behavior as well. Wher I come from writign in bold is considered vulgar and offensive and you shoudl use caps.

And I o nto care what others think. If they want to read what I post, read with CAP ON. And they clrearly do. otherwise they would not be answering me



Pyramid quoting and making a one line relpy is adult behavior?
Making muiple such replies in a row?

Try condensing your posts, maybe then people won't treat you like a 6 year old on a soap box.

**edit then try italics, if you're not a bold person, or maybe underline

Get some Eve. Make it yours.

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#198 - 2014-01-28 02:13:13 UTC
Quote:
Hiring mercenaries is not an answer. Joining larger alliances is not the answer. HTFU is not the answer.


why not? why not? and why not?

some mercs, like failed diplomacy, might join ur dec for free!
some alliances, like dec shield, might take on your dec for free!
HTFU is an attitude. one that might help you endure in this game.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

I am disposable
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#199 - 2014-01-28 04:49:25 UTC
Wardec mechanics as they currently exist are mind-bogglingly stupid. I don't get how anyone could argue otherwise.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#200 - 2014-01-28 08:36:42 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
They can fight back.. anyoen can fight back in this game. IF they fail its THEIR fault!! Only their own fault! That is the explendid thing. Safe the rare bugs, everytime syou die, its your own fault or your friends fault.

If you cannto defend yourself.. LEARN TO

Don't be stupid. That's not the case at all. You attack people without guns. You attack unarmed ships. They cannot fight back. (See what I did there - Emphasis without capitalising words - Watch and learn).

You're over simplifying things and only seeing the situation from your perspective. You justify your actions because you don't want to admit what you are. Anyone who goes to low sec or nullsec is inherently agreeing to pvp combat. They are doing so because they are voluntarily going to where there are no police to protect them. Those in high sec are in high sec because of two reasons. Either a) they don't want to do pvp or b) they want to pick on people who don't want to do pvp. You fit the latter group.

Whether you think you're a bully or not, there are plenty of people who think you are. That fact alone makes you a bully. Do you think the hard kid in middle school who rules the playground with an iron fist considers himself a bully? No, he considers himself a hard man. But all those other kids consider him a bully. These high sec carebears are the kids, you're the bully and the nullsec denizens are the adults who would kick you in the face if you ever actually went near them.

You see, whether you think it or not, you are a bully by definition. You should admit it and move on with your life. That's just who and what you are. No need to feel ashamed. After all, this is the path you've chosen within the game. The path of the bully.

ps whilst I've tried to translate your appalling writing I simply have no idea what you mean by this: "That is the explendid thing". I don't really care what you mean but you go on about other people not reading your posts but you make it pretty difficult to. Not because you don't understand the language but purely because you're lazy and incompetent. Try reading through your comments before you post them and correct the enormous amount of mistakes. That way people will be able to understand you. If you don't, you just look like an ignorant fool.