Warfare & Tactics

Problems with Caldari PVP

1. Signature Radius - Your signature radius becomes massive the minute you start putting on any kind of buffer tank. In most situations you'll have a signature radius comparable to the next class of ship up i.e. battlecruiser signature radius approx.= battleship class radius.
2. Lower (effective DPS)*EHP factors with comparable ships - Especially true with Caldari battleships Caldari battleships don't stand a chance against their rivals.
3. Lowest base speed of any race - Caldari ships can't often dictate range which is an essential factor to success in PVP.
4. No Utility Mids - After you've finished putting on your tank you OFTEN (not always) don't have enough room for the appropriate tackle/target painters to up your effective dps, sensor boosters or midslot eccm (lowslot eccm is a joke).
5. No racial advantage - I know what you're going to say Caldari ships have higher sensor strength than other races BUT they're not any harder to jam really the difference in sensor strength is so pitifully low that their might as well be no difference at all.
6. Can't use utility highs - If you are using a raven you can't fit a heavy neut without sacrificing tank or dps to the point of rendering the fit ineffectual against anything really. If you're using a neut
7. 80% of your dps comes from high slot weapons - This means that you are more vulnerable to the effects of ECM because if you're jammed that's 80% of your dps gone.

Before you all start harping on about the Drake the Drake has half the problems listed and a massive signature. Battleships mince Drakes. The Drake isn't the best battlecruiser that award goes to the Hurricane and there are a lot of good arguments that suggest that the Harbinger is better than the Drake as well.

1. 99% of time in PvP you're MWDing- in which case everyone's sig is freaking massive, it's not just Caldari.

2. Many Caldari ships boast some of the best on paper EHP/DPS ratios in the game - see HAM Drake, Torp Raven, Brick Tengu, etc - however these may not be the most common setups because DPS/EHP isn't actually the most important ratio for determining a good pvp ship, which is another reason why this point is, no pun intended, pointless.

3. Many Caldari ships are competitive speedwise because they have lows for nanos/shield tanks don't slow you down. Agility is more key than raw speed in many situations, and caldari are amongst the most agile ships.

4. My cookie-cutter drake fit has 2 utility mids. That's a hell of a lot more than my cookie-cutter armor harb or anything else. Sure, utility mids are harder to come by on shield tanking ships, but you still have some and you also have more room for damage mods/speed mods. Take a look at the shield cane, which you cite as a superior PvP ship - see any utility mids on those minmatar shield tankers?

5. Missiles are an awesome weapon system in many situations. Mainly HM's - torps are situational and cruises's could use a boost, but Caldari in general have a decent weapon system with bonuses to a decent damage type (kinetic). They also get shield resist bonuses racially, which are the best kind of tank bonuses. (benefit both RR and local tanks).

6. Though you do have a harder time fitting those utility highs, it's not impossible - the problems with the raven are more symptomatic of its terrible fitting than of a problem with Caldari ships in general. My laser/shield/ownage scorp has plenty of room for nuets in its highs, for example.

7. You and almost every other non-drone oriented ship gets most of it's damage from the highs. This is good, I like this. Drones die surprisingly often to competent players, and I especially don't want my DPS left behind when I'm kiting and have to run in a hurry. You have the highest racial sensor strength, so ECM should be proportionally less effective at hindering your DPS. (another racial advantage right there, innit?)

And as for the drake, I'm sorry, but it is awesome. I would take my cookie cutter drake over a hurricane/harby anyday. You're welcome to take me up on that. And it's only the beginning of a laundry list of decent Caldari ships - all of the ECM ships are viable (5, 6 odd?), the drake is excellent, Tengu is amazing, Raven rocks when applied properly (gang dps boat) Caracal certainly isn't bad, and many frigs are competitive.

This isn't to say that Caldari doesn't have it's downsides - for example, the Hybrid line is in need of some serious buffing, and most likely still will need some help even after the hybrid boosts - but if you're only looking at the ECM/missile boats, there's not a useless one in sight.

I'm not opposed to some slight boosting of many Caldari ships, but in general you're grossly exaggerating their deficiencies and ignoring the advantages they do have. These kinds of broad statements about racial PvP are never accurate because the capabilities of ships within races vary considerably, and I disagree with your points for the majority of Caldari ships - they may apply to specific ships, but by generalizing them to all Caldari ships, you're rendering that irrelevant.

Say that Caldari hybrid boats should be boosted, suggest specific ship tweaks (raven fitting perhaps) - but don't tell me Caldari is bad at PvP in general, especially when your list of reasons cites specific ships and is egregiously wrong when applied to the race as a whole.

LMAO!

Caracal, Cerberus, Rook, Falcon, Onyx, Tengu, Drake, Nighthawk, Scorpion. Some are these are arguably best in class, so please stop talking gibberish

I just came here to say that I LOVE my Hookbill.

This guy nailed it yo

oh you

Bye bye credibility, bye bye.

Yes, it is horrible that the drake gets minced by battleships. Not like that ever happens ot oher BC's, eh? While the sig radius makes it more vulnerable to big stuff, even a HAM drake has quite the rangeadvantage to many other ships (barring sniperfits).
Also, caldari might not be dominant in the solo 1v1 BS stages but a raven can still put out a good 1000 dps with a decent tank at a rather low SP count I'd say.

There's nothing wrong with Caldari, because Caldari = drake, and drakes are fine in pvp. Raven = drake, Ferox = drake, Rokh = drake, Moa = drake, and everything else Caldari = drake. Thus nothing Caldari ever needs buff.

There's nothing wrong with Gallante, because Gallante = Nyx. Brutix = Nyx, Hyperion = Nyx, Thorax = Nyx, Diemost = Nyx, and everything else Gallante = Nyx. Thus nothing Gallante ever needs buff.