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Paladin short 1k dps

Author
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-01-25 21:16:06 UTC
From what I've been told CCP will reimburse PVE losses if it's because of a disconnect. Right now they're even refunding ships lost to PVP MTU aggro.

A Nightmare will warp off if you disconnect but the Paladin will not if in Bastion mode.
Zenith Gravit
LionGate Enterprises
#22 - 2014-01-25 23:52:33 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
That's a hilariously dumb fit, you probably shouldn't use any of the fits that guy gives you.

Oska Rus wrote:
[best fit for getting yourself ganked. :D


I'm not flying one, nor am I close, but other than all the bling why is is so bad?
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#23 - 2014-01-26 00:32:05 UTC
It's hilariously unnecessary bling that turns you into a viable gank target for no other reason than "expensive is cool duuuurrrr look at these numbers!". Apart from that, smartbombs WILL get you concordokened in high sec if you hit the wrong target with them which you inevitably will.
Zenith Gravit
LionGate Enterprises
#24 - 2014-01-26 01:52:30 UTC
What would you recommend dropping to make it less of a tank magnet? I like the Paladin, and want to fly one at some point but don't want more of a target on my back than I have to.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-01-26 02:19:33 UTC
Zenith Gravit wrote:
Not mine, but a saved fit.from an alliance member, but I checked it in EveHQ, With perfect support skills, pulse specialization 4, marauders 4, and a 5% implant and slots 9 and 10 its just over 1200 paper DPS with Conflag. A stupid high omni tank too.

[Paladin, Paladin]
Pretty please gank me fit



My Paladin has beams but here's just a few things I saw. Anyone with more experience using a pulse fit please correct me.


[Paladin, Paladin]
Core X-Type Large Armor Repairer <------------------------- Replace with IN LAR
Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane <------------------------- Replace with Armor EM Hardener II
Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane <------------------------- Replace with Armor Thermic Hardener II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Gist X-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive <------------------------- Replace with Republic Fleet MWD

Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Bastion Module I
Large EMP Smartbomb I <--- Will get you CONCORD'ed in highsec
Large EMP Smartbomb I <--- Will get you CONCORD'ed in highsec
Large EMP Smartbomb I <--- Will get you CONCORD'ed in highsec

Large Processor Overclocking Unit I <---- Replace with Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
Large Targeting System Subcontroller I <---- Replace with Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#26 - 2014-01-26 02:27:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Riot Girl
This has about 330m isk in modules, so it would only be worth 165m to a ganker, excluding cargo. Using only 2 faction damage mods also makes the ship less tempting to ganker because they only have a 50% chance to drop (using 3 or 4 would swing the chances to the gankers favour). You can use whatever T2 rigs you like.

[Paladin, New Setup 1]
Ammatar Navy Heat Sink
Ammatar Navy Heat Sink
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Core C-Type Large Armor Repairer

Large Micro Jump Drive
100MN Microwarpdrive II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I
Bastion Module I

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
STush T
House of Tuachair
#27 - 2014-01-26 02:27:25 UTC
IIshira wrote:
From what I've been told CCP will reimburse PVE losses if it's because of a disconnect. Right now they're even refunding ships lost to PVP MTU aggro.

A Nightmare will warp off if you disconnect but the Paladin will not if in Bastion mode.


Really doubt this to be true because its to easy to be abused, for instance, "oh no, my super blinged ship is about to pop to npcs, im scrambled, what to do? I know, ill throw my router across the room, ripping out the ethernet cord, and there by giving me a glorious disconnect. Then ccp can give me isk for my ship."
So probably just a bad rumor.

I know i might be pushing some peoples patience here, but im eagerly waiting to hear back about the damage rig + 4 heatsinks. Are the returns worth it due to stacking penalties?
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-01-26 02:35:03 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
STush T wrote:

I know i might be pushing some peoples patience here, but im eagerly waiting to hear back about the damage rig + 4 heatsinks. Are the returns worth it due to stacking penalties?


Just throw it in EFT... This is a 4 HS fit from an earlier post in this thread. It gets 1040 DPS. If you take the T2 damage rig out it gets 977. That's 63 DPS. So you have to decide if the 63 DPS is worth the rig slot. If you want maximum gank of course it is.


[Paladin, Tachyon]
Core C-Type Large Armor Repairer
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Tracking Enhancer II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Core C-Type 100MN Afterburner
Large Micro Jump Drive
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
[empty high slot]
Corpus C-Type Heavy Nosferatu
Small Tractor Beam I
Bastion Module I

Large Energy Burst Aerator II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#29 - 2014-01-26 02:55:06 UTC
STush T wrote:
I know i might be pushing some peoples patience here, but im eagerly waiting to hear back about the damage rig + 4 heatsinks. Are the returns worth it due to stacking penalties?

It depends if you're happy with the rest of your fit. If your ship is fine and you see no room for improvement, then you can use damage rigs or any other rig that makes things easier for you.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2014-01-26 03:36:06 UTC
I still have one T2 CCC and a T1 tracking rig just because I had them before Rubicon and don't feel like destroying the CCC. With 4 heatsinks i'm happy with the DPS I'm getting. Is there anyone here that has added the damage rig and can say the 63 DPS is noticeable?
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#31 - 2014-01-26 06:07:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
Here is one I tested just yesterday. Cheap in fittings, lazy to pilot and very good in melting things..C:

[Paladin, The lazy Paladin]
Signal Amplifier II
Tracking Enhancer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Tracking Computer II
Tracking Computer II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Domination 100MN Microwarpdrive

Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Salvager II
Bastion Module I

Large Targeting System Subcontroller I
Large Energy Burst Aerator II

Hobgoblin II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/69289-The-lazy-Paladin.html
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#32 - 2014-01-26 09:19:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
STush T wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:

Tracking is indeed highly important, but that fit has 2 TC and a TE, and while a T2 tracking rig will help it will ONLY help when tracking starts to become an issue, like a full transversal cruiser at 20-30km. But the second the target isn't a short range full transversal cruiser that T2 ROF rig will net you better applied dps.



I hadnt thought of that. What im understanding is a rof rig makes the sweet spot sweeter, where as my tracking rig only makes the borders of the sweet spot bigger. But once your in the sweet spot, its a waste.

t2 tracking rig has a 20% boost to tracking
t2 tracking enhancer only does 9.5% boost, but better optimal (ignoring falloff for lasers), better optimal means I can get further away and still be in the sweet spot, (thinking out loud) so i think your completely right, a tracking enhancer does as a whole help more then just a tracking rig. This is exactly the kind of advice i was looking for.
But the other question is whether 5 forms of dps boost is worth it.
And if it is worth it, then what about the tank? One rep, One resist? Assuming we all dont immediately throw down a yurt and load up on tank if it gets to much, although to be honest i dont like the yurts, but i can definitely see the benefit of being jonny on the spot with one and saving yourself from a stupid mistake.

This is without drones, just guns.

And for DCing, with the pally i have enough buffer to jump back on, a nightmare didnt have a lot of room for neglect.


Not only that but think of it this way;

If you're scripted for range an extra TE will (apart from diminished range) also give you undiminished tracking, and when you script for tracking then it will give you almost undiminished range (Bastion is the other). And it's not like you need that slot for anything other than "ooh look at that funky but unneeded tanking number".

For a mission runner EVERYTHING is about applied dps, as long as you have the tank to survive then anything is a bonus. That ROF rig will add some 6-7% overall dps, now think about how people are willing to spend a LOT of money to get 5% implants...
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2014-01-26 09:47:54 UTC
STush T wrote:
I stand corrected, with Conflag i do get 1033dps. Switched back out to pulses, got some conflag crystals and sure enough. So is this the number that everyone is quoting? Because in my opinion, conflag is very limited. With two optimal range scripts, and bastion i get optimal out to 30km, which to me is poor.
I will look into a fourth heat sink, I could part with the DCII, its more of a gank resist, but i think with bastion I should still be alright.
Implants, what implants are you using? Ive seen 3% damage increase implants, but wasnt impressed with the return for the price. Definitely interested in your fit with implants.



T2 tachyons do almost same damage as t2 Pulses.. with a completely different set of limitations (range not beign one of them)

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2014-01-26 09:50:15 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
This has about 330m isk in modules, so it would only be worth 165m to a ganker, excluding cargo. Using only 2 faction damage mods also makes the ship less tempting to ganker because they only have a 50% chance to drop (using 3 or 4 would swing the chances to the gankers favour). You can use whatever T2 rigs you like.

[Paladin, New Setup 1]
Ammatar Navy Heat Sink
Ammatar Navy Heat Sink
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Core C-Type Large Armor Repairer

Large Micro Jump Drive
100MN Microwarpdrive II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I
Bastion Module I

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]



Why a deadspace large armro repairder whant aMEDIUM t2 can tank ANY mission while in bastion?

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#35 - 2014-01-26 09:59:31 UTC
Cap efficiency.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#36 - 2014-01-26 11:22:03 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Cap efficiency.


If you want to spend 3 low slots for tanking, then a medium repper will give you more cap efficiency. Thats what she was asking..
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#37 - 2014-01-26 11:56:29 UTC
That's not what I got from it but then again I didn't really follow the earlier conversation in that regard, if that was indeed the real question then the answer is "why waste low slotsor move that far away that you're forced to use low dps crystals". 2 TC + gleam gives good tracking against semi-short range stuff, no need to run away. Also Gleam isn't, unlike Scorch, mostly EM.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#38 - 2014-01-26 12:13:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
That is a compound question really. If you really want to go in, bastion and proceed to hit from 0-100km, you should do pulses. Tracking makes a lot of difference in damage application in short-ish ranges, and gleam will not make up for it. No other way around it, if you try both setups at short range the difference is more than evident.

Marauders though have a built in damage projection (bastion) and mobility bonus (MJD). So the other way to use a Pally is to warp in, spool up, jump and then bastion and hit everything from 40-150km. What you lose in mission turnaround due to moving away from gates/objectives, you gain in damage application and projection. Range indirectly boosts tracking, bastion removes yourself from the tracking equation while limiting npcs to very low degrees of angle, and you can project good DPS out to your max targeting range while adjusting instantly due to the crystal reloading time. You also have to tank less, but Marauders are very good for that anyway so it really doesn't matter.

After some testing, I really think tachs work better for my flying style. I split the turrets in two groups, MJD away and then deliver 3000ish alpha to two targets at the same time, working in a sfi-sfo basis (from smallest to highest sig). And by having an MWD as a backup, I don't really have to slowboat or triangulate to reach a mission objective either.

Hope that helps, cheers...C:
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#39 - 2014-01-26 12:48:15 UTC
What's the point of using a medium repper when a large one is 150% more efficient?
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#40 - 2014-01-26 12:50:15 UTC
Or 50% more efficient. Whatever.
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