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Dev blog: HED-GP Technical Retrospective

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CCP Gargant
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2014-01-24 17:06:00 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
The fight that happened in HED-GP has been the object of discussion for the last few days, and specifically the technical aspect of it. Our resident space-wizard, CCP Veritas, wrote a technical retrospective on the events in HED and how they compare to another heavy fight that happened in 6VDT.

Read it here.

CCP Gargant | EVE Universe esports Coordinator
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#2 - 2014-01-24 17:12:32 UTC
So now everytime CFC will lose some stuff(Asakai and now HED) CCP will make a devblog about it UghWhat?

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#3 - 2014-01-24 17:19:51 UTC

Thank you for looking into this!
WarFireV
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-01-24 17:20:54 UTC
Guess in the end, it was the 1000 domis that doomed CFCRUS.
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#5 - 2014-01-24 17:21:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentient Blade
Interesting information.

I wonder if it makes sense to simply remove sentry drones from the physics simulation, keep them perfectly still, and to stop sending unique per-sentry firing information to every observer above a certain TIDI factor, although clearly you would still want to show them to the person being shot at, and their owner.

Or if you wanted to make something fun... battleship-only, sustained beam projected AOE that degrades drone damage and tracking.

Make it require a ton of cap. More than the ship itself could ever produce.

I'd love to see epic battles where formations of battleships are being fed cap by logi chains, and firing beam weapons into enemy slowcat formations to effectively dampen every single sentry down to about 20km optimal.

That would shake up the meta.
Batolemaeus
Mahlstrom
Northern Associates.
#6 - 2014-01-24 17:25:00 UTC
Your are looking at a social problem from a technical angle, which is understandable given your job.

However, what's the opinion of Game Design (TM) on how the sov system that's been left untouched since Dominion contributes to this pileup of hardware and warm bodies?

There were enough pilots around to push the system to way beyond 5k people, and I doubt that number will go down as more and more 0.0 consolidates due to the design of sov, capitals and force projection.
Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2014-01-24 17:25:20 UTC
The worst lag was when people were jumping in, wouldn't reopening the Brian in the Box idea really have helped in this instance? I think we're all used to module lag, and lag moving about etc, it's the reappearance of the black screen of death that was majorly concerning.

When you can't load grid, you can't turn on hardeners, and you're alpha'd off the field before it loads. That's not fun game play.
CCP Veritas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#8 - 2014-01-24 17:28:47 UTC
Kismeteer wrote:
The worst lag was when people were jumping in, wouldn't reopening the Brian in the Box idea really have helped in this instance?

Indeed, that's the work that Gridlock has been working towards.

CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online
Batolemaeus
Mahlstrom
Northern Associates.
#9 - 2014-01-24 17:29:01 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
sustained beam projected AOE


In a thread about server performance, you want to introduce AOE.

Not sure if trolling or daft...
CCP Veritas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#10 - 2014-01-24 17:29:19 UTC
Also, I applaud you for the typo. I don't even see that one anymore.

CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#11 - 2014-01-24 17:29:31 UTC
Tech-porn!

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Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

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Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#12 - 2014-01-24 17:29:48 UTC
CCP Veritas wrote:
Kismeteer wrote:
The worst lag was when people were jumping in, wouldn't reopening the Brian in the Box idea really have helped in this instance?

Indeed, that's the work that Gridlock has been working towards.


Excellent, thank you sir. I look forward to your progress.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-01-24 17:30:13 UTC
Why has no brain in a box work has occurred? This surely would have improved the jumpin/out experience of so many that were stuck in warp tunnels for hours.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Evelgrivion
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-01-24 17:31:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Evelgrivion
Kismeteer wrote:
The worst lag was when people were jumping in, wouldn't reopening the Brian in the Box idea really have helped in this instance? I think we're all used to module lag, and lag moving about etc, it's the reappearance of the black screen of death that was majorly concerning.

When you can't load grid, you can't turn on hardeners, and you're alpha'd off the field before it loads. That's not fun game play.


As far as I know, Brain in a Box was never closed; the hold-up is in unraveling the legacy spaghetti-code, whose voodoo underpins the existing systems.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#15 - 2014-01-24 17:36:42 UTC
While I completely don't care about reason and outcome of that battle I really enjoyed reading this devblog. Gimme MOAR :)

+1 CCP Veritas :)

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Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#16 - 2014-01-24 17:36:45 UTC
Kismeteer wrote:
The worst lag was when people were jumping in, wouldn't reopening the Brian in the Box idea really have helped in this instance? I think we're all used to module lag, and lag moving about etc, it's the reappearance of the black screen of death that was majorly concerning.



This seemed different from the black screen of old in that it eventually let you in, just took 90 minutes or whatever since the server was so overloaded with other tasks. Not saying that there's no improvement to be made here (my internet died a little while in so I spent a couple hours staring at the login screen of my accounts), but I wouldn't go so far as to call it the same thing as how it was back in 2007/8.

Also, just for the record every form of drone was pretty much useless in this fight, whether it came from a dominix or an archon. Drone assist didn't work at all so they pretty much sat there doing their own thing until the player count dropped enough where module lag was short enough to do things with them.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#17 - 2014-01-24 17:38:12 UTC
Perhaps get the people from Team Super Friends to give a hand...they aren't doing anything constructive atm.
Omarous III
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-01-24 17:39:13 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
Interesting information.

I wonder if it makes sense to simply remove sentry drones from the physics simulation, keep them perfectly still, and to stop sending unique per-sentry firing information to every observer above a certain TIDI factor, although clearly you would still want to show them to the person being shot at, and their owner.

That would shake up the meta.


This is a pretty good idea. Perhaps once TIDI hits a certain level all drones "disappear" from the simulation and they are treated as an invisible weapon system. Pilots can still direct drone damage at a single target and other pilots can target the "drone system" from the overview and attack it. The drones, however, are invisible in the simulation. This would reduce the backend processing of each individual drone targeting, moving, orbiting, the weapon animations, etc.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2014-01-24 17:39:37 UTC
CCP Veritas wrote:
Kismeteer wrote:
The worst lag was when people were jumping in, wouldn't reopening the Brian in the Box idea really have helped in this instance?

Indeed, that's the work that Gridlock has been working towards.

How much work has gone into it since it was announced / how much more is needed? That seems like it should be a huge priority - that's not even just a nullsec thing, that's a jita cap thing.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2014-01-24 17:42:25 UTC
Aryth wrote:
Why has no brain in a box work has occurred? This surely would have improved the jumpin/out experience of so many that were stuck in warp tunnels for hours.


Brain in the box work is happening
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