These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Paladin: How bad is it...?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Novah Soul
#1 - 2014-01-24 00:13:12 UTC
How bad is the Paladin when going up against Angels or Guristas, really? I am looking to train a marauder and I am primarily in Amarr space, so all well and good there, but began to wonder about those occasional missions against Guristas or Angels.

Right now I fly a SNI with roughly 800 dps. Actually, the CM launchers are the only large weapon I have to tech2, so the other three Marauders aside from the Golem will need their weapons trained up, as well as the support skills. The main thing that has been holding me back from the Golem is that missile users do not seem as well received in the incursion communities I have chatted with.

Anyone have any advice or suggestions? It would be very much appreciated. Here is my current character sheet if a reference will be handy: http://eveboard.com/pilot/Novah_Soul

Thanks in advance, and apologies for the slight ramblings, I am a tad scatter-brained currently.

A man is known by the quality of his friends. - Lex Luthor
Rab See
Stellar Dynamics
#2 - 2014-01-24 00:28:50 UTC
Best by far.

Vargur/Kronos Meh.

Golem good.

MJD on angels and blap from range.
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-01-24 00:29:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Bullet Therapist
I haven't used the paladin, but if you go to eve survival and compare the resists of the rats you'd be facing against those the paladin is best at you'd get a good idea.
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#4 - 2014-01-24 01:15:39 UTC
If you're taking advice from Incursuon runners, you're doing it wrong

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Kirkwood Ross
Golden Profession
#5 - 2014-01-24 01:51:17 UTC
Paladin isn't bad. Being ECM immune is great.
stoicfaux
#6 - 2014-01-24 03:50:29 UTC
Novah Soul wrote:
How bad is the Paladin when going up against Angels or Guristas, really? I am looking to train a marauder and I am primarily in Amarr space, so all well and good there, but began to wonder about those occasional missions against Guristas or Angels.

Here's the EHP per damage type for a Guristas and Angel battleship. If you use Scorch, which is mostly EM, it's going to take you a while to chew threw them. If you use multifrequency which is ~60% EM, ~40% therm, it's still not pretty.

PIth Eliminator
EM 47,058
Expl 35,306
Kin 24,393
Therm 28,664

Gist General
EM 33,302
Expl 18,530
Kin 21,444
Therm 25,853

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Dredastttarm
0x31A9D8F2
#7 - 2014-01-24 03:52:30 UTC
Personally, I love my Paladin, it's not that bad, but I am unable to fly any other Marauders, so I wouldn't know...

I make YouTube videos and so on... Watch me do silly things here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Internetzspacezshipz?
Zenith Gravit
LionGate Enterprises
#8 - 2014-01-24 04:05:56 UTC
I'm planning on transitioning my alt from a Navy Geddon to one in about 24 hours. With his implants, current skills, and Maruaders 4 he should be doing, on paper, about 1200dps with plenty of omni tank. I know the non selectable damage type isn't the greatest, but I'm mostly in Sansha space so it works for me.
Novah Soul
#9 - 2014-01-24 07:43:15 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Novah Soul wrote:
How bad is the Paladin when going up against Angels or Guristas, really? I am looking to train a marauder and I am primarily in Amarr space, so all well and good there, but began to wonder about those occasional missions against Guristas or Angels.

Here's the EHP per damage type for a Guristas and Angel battleship. If you use Scorch, which is mostly EM, it's going to take you a while to chew threw them. If you use multifrequency which is ~60% EM, ~40% therm, it's still not pretty.

PIth Eliminator
EM 47,058
Expl 35,306
Kin 24,393
Therm 28,664

Gist General
EM 33,302
Expl 18,530
Kin 21,444
Therm 25,853


Thank you for the numbers stoicfaux. So basically, if I am interpreting them correctly, this means it would take a Paladin roughly 2x as long to kill one of these rats when compared to a Golem of similar dps, correct?

I knew it would would likely be slow going when comparing killing speeds of Sansha/BRs vs. these other rats, but I was just hoping with me being accustomed to a ship that does only 800 dps, that with a ship that does 1200ish, the killing difference on the improper rats wouldn't be terribly noticeable.

A man is known by the quality of his friends. - Lex Luthor
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#10 - 2014-01-24 08:55:37 UTC
Using my Paladin to grind up standings for multiple areas currently, and it just melts enemies even if they're not weak to EM/Thermal. Using a fit with only a medium reppper, MWD and MJD without much of an issue. Can control range pretty well against all factions and the ewar immunity is really nice against guristas. Also lasers don't get shot down by defender missiles.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2014-01-24 09:29:11 UTC
Novah Soul wrote:
How bad is the Paladin when going up against Angels or Guristas, really? I am looking to train a marauder and I am primarily in Amarr space, so all well and good there, but began to wonder about those occasional missions against Guristas or Angels.

Right now I fly a SNI with roughly 800 dps. Actually, the CM launchers are the only large weapon I have to tech2, so the other three Marauders aside from the Golem will need their weapons trained up, as well as the support skills. The main thing that has been holding me back from the Golem is that missile users do not seem as well received in the incursion communities I have chatted with.

Anyone have any advice or suggestions? It would be very much appreciated. Here is my current character sheet if a reference will be handy: http://eveboard.com/pilot/Novah_Soul

Thanks in advance, and apologies for the slight ramblings, I am a tad scatter-brained currently.



it is not efficient against angeles. Better to go look for an agent that only give the eventual Angel extravaganza that you can skip. But its the best marauder by far agaisnt rest of enemies. Get the correct agent and you NEVER EVER get any gurista mission.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2014-01-24 09:30:45 UTC
Novah Soul wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Novah Soul wrote:
How bad is the Paladin when going up against Angels or Guristas, really? I am looking to train a marauder and I am primarily in Amarr space, so all well and good there, but began to wonder about those occasional missions against Guristas or Angels.

Here's the EHP per damage type for a Guristas and Angel battleship. If you use Scorch, which is mostly EM, it's going to take you a while to chew threw them. If you use multifrequency which is ~60% EM, ~40% therm, it's still not pretty.

PIth Eliminator
EM 47,058
Expl 35,306
Kin 24,393
Therm 28,664

Gist General
EM 33,302
Expl 18,530
Kin 21,444
Therm 25,853


Thank you for the numbers stoicfaux. So basically, if I am interpreting them correctly, this means it would take a Paladin roughly 2x as long to kill one of these rats when compared to a Golem of similar dps, correct?

I knew it would would likely be slow going when comparing killing speeds of Sansha/BRs vs. these other rats, but I was just hoping with me being accustomed to a ship that does only 800 dps, that with a ship that does 1200ish, the killing difference on the improper rats wouldn't be terribly noticeable.


but at same time the paladin kills smaller ships faster.. because you hit for full damage.

Get 1 golem and 1 paladin if you want to make most isk per hour without rejecting missions.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Novah Soul
#13 - 2014-01-24 09:38:55 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:


but at same time the paladin kills smaller ships faster.. because you hit for full damage.

Get 1 golem and 1 paladin if you want to make most isk per hour without rejecting missions.

This probably will be the most likely coarse I will take, and by doing so I can get a Nightmare for incursion-running.

A man is known by the quality of his friends. - Lex Luthor
Layla Firoue
Doomheim
#14 - 2014-01-24 11:58:39 UTC
Novah Soul wrote:
How bad is the Paladin when going up against Angels or Guristas, really? I am looking to train a marauder and I am primarily in Amarr space, so all well and good there, but began to wonder about those occasional missions against Guristas or Angels.

Right now I fly a SNI with roughly 800 dps. Actually, the CM launchers are the only large weapon I have to tech2, so the other three Marauders aside from the Golem will need their weapons trained up, as well as the support skills. The main thing that has been holding me back from the Golem is that missile users do not seem as well received in the incursion communities I have chatted with.

Anyone have any advice or suggestions? It would be very much appreciated. Here is my current character sheet if a reference will be handy: http://eveboard.com/pilot/Novah_Soul

Thanks in advance, and apologies for the slight ramblings, I am a tad scatter-brained currently.



Having taken a peek at your skills I couldn´t help but notice that cruise missiles are NOT the only large weapon system you got for Tech II you have got all relevant skills for Tech II sentries as well. You also got Gallente Battleship IV which means you got a near perfect skill set for a sentry Domi which at the current state of the game is a really silly mission runner because of insane tracking high dps and tremendous range depending on setup/drone choice.

So keep you Pala for Sanshas/Blood raiders and get a Domi for everything else, you already got all the necessary skills
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-01-24 12:40:24 UTC
Novah Soul wrote:
How bad is the Paladin when going up against Angels or Guristas, really? I am looking to train a marauder and I am primarily in Amarr space, so all well and good there, but began to wonder about those occasional missions against Guristas or Angels.

Right now I fly a SNI with roughly 800 dps. Actually, the CM launchers are the only large weapon I have to tech2, so the other three Marauders aside from the Golem will need their weapons trained up, as well as the support skills. The main thing that has been holding me back from the Golem is that missile users do not seem as well received in the incursion communities I have chatted with.

Anyone have any advice or suggestions? It would be very much appreciated. Here is my current character sheet if a reference will be handy: http://eveboard.com/pilot/Novah_Soul

Thanks in advance, and apologies for the slight ramblings, I am a tad scatter-brained currently.


The Paladin is very nice against EM weak rats but you can do a whole lot better in a different ship fighting Guristas or Angels.

Your skills are decent and it looks like both your missile and gunnery support skills are at 4 so either way you're going to spend some time getting those up.

Your ship hanger can hold more than one ship so don't try to use one ship for everything. You could go with the Dominix as some suggested. I've had good success with a MJD fitted one since you can jump to range and insta pop most frigates. Since you already have T2 sentries and Gallente BS 4 this wouldn't require training and if they nerf sentry drones too badly you're not really out much. From what I've read Garde's are going to be useless at range but Bouncer's should work.

I've flown the Golem and it's nice but it doesn't destroy Sansha nearly as fast as the Paladin. It's maybe a little better than the CNR but has EWAR immunity like all marauders so it's nice against Guristas . You can also use your SNI for Guristas since with all those mid slots you can fit 2 ECCM. You'll still get an occasional jam but not all the time.

Missile ships aren't well received by many incursion groups. I'm sure armor fleets are out there but I don't know if they're using Paladins since Bastion wouldn't work in incursions... At least not if you wanted the logi to rep you LOL. I do know that shield Nightmares are well received so this would be an easy transition.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#16 - 2014-01-24 13:10:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Tach pally works ok against Guristas, while the damage type sucks on a Tach pally (which is what you want to avoid scorch EM damage type) the base dps and damage projection is fantastic. It won't out perform a 425 Kronos because that's too close in damage at range while using the right damage type but it's certainly no slouch. And beyond some 30km it's going to outperform an AC Vargur as well, simply due to not having to rely on falloff even if it does use the wrong damage type.

So that, effectively, leaves missile and drone ships.

Missile ships have flight time meaning you're probably going to waste time waiting for the target to die before firing at a new target (this is especially sucky when using painters). Also, while Turrets may get tracking issues missiles have damage application issues against moving target so as long as the targets move straight at you, which they tend to do in the beginning, turrets are very much better than missiles and since the Tach Pally does such a ridiculous amount of dps stuff generally dies before it gets a chance to orbit.

Drone ships can be really good, sentry domi can do amazing applied dps at massive ranges but, being a sentry ship, they don't move while applying dps which can be an issue when doing multiple pockets


So turret ships perform better (not easier) than missile ships and will probably complete missions faster than sentry ships because of being able to move while firing. And of all the turret marauders the Pally is second in effectiveness (behind the Kronos) against Guristas. End result: damage type won't be ideal but it'll work fine.
Heavensend
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2014-01-24 13:13:06 UTC
Skip Angel missions as far as you can't fly a T2 sentry boat or a projectile weapon boat. Especially Angel (except Bonus stage) extra has nearly no need for a heavy tank and can be done in many ships with right damage type. Kin/Therm rats can be killed with ok speed with Paladin using Conflagration ammo. It does very high base dps and half the damage is thermal.
I bought Vargur too after years of using Paladin only but overall income isn't quite much higher now.
So fly in Amarr space and Pala will mostly be the best overall choice.
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#18 - 2014-01-24 13:14:41 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Tach pally

Ugh Tach Paladin is terrible... With Bastion you reach about 100km with Scorch (yeah yeah EM whatever, you can still use the other T1 crystals if you really want though).
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#19 - 2014-01-24 13:57:07 UTC
Kosetzu wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Tach pally

Ugh Tach Paladin is terrible... With Bastion you reach about 100km with Scorch (yeah yeah EM whatever, you can still use the other T1 crystals if you really want though).


Tach pally does more dps beyond 30km compared to a Pulse pally and that's generally where Guristas will be; beyond 30km. And when your pulses have to use Scorch a tach fit does more dps everywhere while having massively better damage types for Guristas.


Less baseless hearsay, more facts.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#20 - 2014-01-24 14:50:16 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Kosetzu wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Tach pally

Ugh Tach Paladin is terrible... With Bastion you reach about 100km with Scorch (yeah yeah EM whatever, you can still use the other T1 crystals if you really want though).


Tach pally does more dps beyond 30km compared to a Pulse pally and that's generally where Guristas will be; beyond 30km. And when your pulses have to use Scorch a tach fit does more dps everywhere while having massively better damage types for Guristas.


Less baseless hearsay, more facts.

iirc this is not quite correct. while pulses (obviously) shine under 30km, the tach pally only beats scorch out to ~70-80km at which point you need to use lower damage crystals which perform worse than scorch. of course once you are past 100km, your puls dps rapidly approaches 0, so you have to go back to tachs anyway.

I should buy an Ishtar.
12Next page