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[Proposal] Hull Rigs
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X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#1 - 2011-11-09 00:51:14 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Hybrid buff is great stuff. Definitely an improvement over current state of affairs. Now, the final touch. Give the Gallente ships a real chance to hull tank while keeping up speed.

1. Change reinforced bulkhead penalty from speed reduction to cargo capacity reduction. Reinforced bulkheads help out the bigger ships (40 CPU fitting requirement) and are better used on Gallente than Amarr because of CPU requirements and Gallente on average have a stronger hull.

2. Add Hull Rigs - 16% increase in hull HP per rig. Penalty: Cargo size. This gives hull tanking ships like Gallente ought to be a chance of survival in today's modern day battlefield. (helps hull tankers increase EHP in same order CDFEs and trimarks do for shield and armor tankers)

Comparisons: Using Current Turret fitting reqs, and current ship speeds.

Comparison #1: "Max Tanking Underfit Cruiser" Proposed Hull Rig Thorax+ Reinforced Bulkheads: 26k EHP, 1436 m/s, Armor tanked Thorax: 49k EHP, 1,112 m/s. Fair enough. Speed for EHP.

Comparison #2: Shield Gank Thorax: Proposed Hull Rig 14.8k EHP, "Shield Gank Thorax" 20.4k EHP, but no web. Fair enough. Both 1436 m/s. Web+sig radius reduction for EHP. Could potentially use low slots for more speed (since webs are available in mid slots).

Comparison #3: Max Tanked Mega: Proposed Hull Rig+reinforced bulkheads - 145k EHP, 960 m/s. Max Armor - 146k EHP 822 m/s. Same tank, some needed speed for the Mega.

Comparison #4: Shield Gank Mega - Hull Tanked 58.9k EHP, 960 m/s, Shield Gank Mega 54.7k EHP 960 m/s. Same tank, more available midslots for the Mega. Lower sig radius, could add speed mods in lows to further increase speed (since webs are available in mid slots).
Endovior
PFU Consortium
#2 - 2011-11-09 04:49:41 UTC
Hmm. A penalty to cargo size is almost no penalty at all... but at the same time, a bonus to hull is something you have to be half-crazy to really exploit much, and people who try are likely to pop more.

All told, I approve; supported. More hull tanking would be hilarious in general.
Goose99
#3 - 2011-11-09 05:33:02 UTC
Supported. The surprise, lulz, tears and rage is worth it.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#4 - 2011-11-09 14:14:13 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Supported. The surprise, lulz, tears and rage is worth it.


^^ This.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Nemesor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-11-09 18:09:22 UTC
I endorse and support this message.
Lekgoa
Free State Project
#6 - 2011-11-09 19:53:31 UTC
Hull tanking definitely needs more love, but T2/T3 ships would have to get improved hull resists.
Sephiroth Clone VII
Brothers of Tyr
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2011-11-09 20:46:55 UTC
by having a % gain it is much more likely to be used by caps (gain much more then a couple thousand boast).

Add to that, with a damage control a fast way to get good all around resists.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#8 - 2011-11-09 21:51:21 UTC
Sephiroth CloneIIV wrote:
by having a % gain it is much more likely to be used by caps (gain much more then a couple thousand boast).

Add to that, with a damage control a fast way to get good all around resists.
There are stacking penalties to eanm's and invulnerability fields. Perhaps stacking penalties should apply to reinforced bulkheads as well ?
Maksim Cammeren
Taxless Corp
#9 - 2011-11-10 00:15:44 UTC
Supported.

Giving the Gallente a viable alternative way to tank will free them from the trimark curse. Besides, its Hull Tanking!

Although, I am a bit concerned about losing cargo capacity with rigs, as it is needed for cap booster charges.

What about making hull resist % rigs? Then, hull tankers can configure their ships to counter particular ammo types.
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-11-10 02:08:03 UTC
Well for long enough everyone knew that real men hull tanked, time to put that into practice for the real men of the Gallente Federation.

Supported.
Egilmonsc
Massively Mob
#11 - 2011-11-11 05:25:00 UTC
Supported for hull tanking.
"BABY, MY LOVE IS BOMB  COME ON THE BOMB THE TWIST!"
el alasar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-11-17 23:20:37 UTC
+1.

also think about adding more hull HP to mining barges...

check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts comment, bump(!) and like what you like
Yankunytjatjara
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2011-12-05 15:42:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Yankunytjatjara
Sounds dumb enough for me to like it :D +1!!

Edit: you guys probably would like my proposal, https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=316406

My solo pvp video: Yankunytjude... That attitude! Solo/small gang proposal: Ship Velocity Vectors
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2011-12-05 15:56:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Yamato
Not a great idea to be honest. It may fix speed issues but creates incompatibilities when factoring in remote repping.

Just get rid of speed penalties on armor tanking mods and then adjust ship speeds further as needed. Slow amarr ships if they're too fast, speed up Gallente if they're too slow.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2011-12-05 17:41:14 UTC
never not hull tank
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#16 - 2011-12-06 00:43:47 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
Not a great idea to be honest. It may fix speed issues but creates incompatibilities when factoring in remote repping.

Just get rid of speed penalties on armor tanking mods and then adjust ship speeds further as needed. Slow amarr ships if they're too fast, speed up Gallente if they're too slow.
I never said anything bout removing current resists, etc... hull rigs are hull rigs, not a replacement for gay armor repping blobs, nor a solution for active repping. Just a way to level the playing field for real men who play eveonline without the crutch of armor or shield mods. Big smile Cmon CCP, You know you wanna do it!
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2011-12-06 01:06:12 UTC
Damage control II, hull rigs, reinforced bulkheads. Final destination.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Berendas
Ascendant Operations
#18 - 2011-12-06 01:50:25 UTC
+1

Gallente always had the strongest hulls, time to take it to the next level.
Handsome Hussein
#19 - 2011-12-06 01:51:12 UTC
Supported. I would love to rock a hull-tanked Thorax.

Leaves only the fresh scent of pine.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#20 - 2011-12-19 17:06:47 UTC
OK, CCP, you drive a hard bargain. Forget the modifications to reinforced bulkheads, just give me my hull rigs that boost EHP as much as CDFE's and trimarks (on a percentage EHP level).